On Getting A Head Start

[ruby sparks]

... it is very easy to understand and agree with its central idea--that circumstances that are outside an individual's control often shape their lives towards more positive and less positive (material) outcomes--

Well said.

--those outcomes are not at the expense of other people.

I don't think I'd go as far as to say that, or to say that it is why the comic may not convince anyone not already convinced.

Perhaps (guessing here) you mean that it is not the deliberate fault of 'those who had the sort of advantages that we are talking about here' that they have more positive (material) outcomes? If so, I'd go along with that. To me, there is a difference between acknowledging one's privileges and feeling guilty or to blame.

Also the infant/toddler Richard and Paula are uncanny valley frightening to look at.

At least that part was a level playing field.

 

[Toni]

I don't trust children. They are plotting to take our jobs.

We need to wall them out.

Actually, we wall them in. That's what prisons are for.

 

[lpetrich]

The damage of poverty is visible as early as kindergarten - Vox

A big part of the American Dream is being able to climb the ladder and land higher than your parents. But that climb starts when people are just small children, according to new research, and getting off on the wrong foot has lifelong consequences.

In a new article in the spring issue of the Princeton University journal The Future of Children (and highlighted by the Brookings social mobility blog), researchers show that poverty is directly correlated to kindergarten performance. Children who live in poverty have far lower performance than their richer peers across a variety of measures, and those who live in near poverty in turn have dramatically worse performance than middle-class peers. The poorest kids, for example, are less than one-third as likely as middle-class kids to recognize letters.

Research has shown that an early head start creates better and better educational outcomes down the road, as the effects build on each other and make future learning easier.

Rice University School Literacy and Culture -- The Thirty Million Word Gap

On average, children from families on welfare were provided half as much experience as children from working class families, and less than a third of the experience given to children from high-income families. In other words, children from families on welfare heard about 616 words per hour, while those from working class families heard around 1,251 words per hour, and those from professional families heard roughly 2,153 words per hour. Thus, children from better financial circumstances had far more language exposure to draw from.

In addition to looking at the number of words exchanged, the researchers also looked at what was being said within these conversations. What they found was that higher-income families provided their children with far more words of praise compared to children from low-income families. Children's vocabulary differs greatly across income groups. Conversely, children from low-income families were found to endure far more instances of negative reinforcement compared to their peers from higher-income families. Children from families with professional backgrounds experienced a ratio of six encouragements for every discouragement. For children from working-class families this ratio was two encouragements to one discouragement. Finally, children from families on welfare received on average two discouragements for every encouragement.

That seems like Joe Biden References a 'Record Player' During 2020 Debate | Time

Suggesting that investing in teachers and social workers would help “make sure that every single child” goes to school and has better opportunities, he went on to say the following:

“It’s not that [some parents] don’t want to help. They don’t know what quite to do: Play the radio, make sure the television… make sure you have the record player on at night.”

That's purely passive, like TV - one needs something more interactive, like parents reading to children. That means parents paying attention to them, instead of being too frazzled to do so.

 

[lpetrich]

 Benjamin Spock - about his book "Baby and Child Care" - "His ideas about childcare influenced several generations of parents to be more flexible and affectionate with their children, and to treat them as individuals. However, his theories were also widely criticized by colleagues for relying too heavily on anecdotal evidence rather than serious academic research." and "Spock was an activist in the New Left and anti Vietnam War movements during the 1960s and early 1970s. At the time, his books were criticized for propagating permissiveness and an expectation of instant gratification which allegedly led young people to join these movements—a charge that Spock denied."

Socio-Economic Status	Words/hour	Positive:negative
Professional	2153	6:1
Working Class	1251	2:1
Welfare Recipient	616	1:2

Positive:negative is encouragement:discouragement

Thus, the professional families raise their kinds in liberal fashion and the welfare ones in conservative fashion.

 

[Trausti]

 Benjamin Spock - about his book "Baby and Child Care" - "His ideas about childcare influenced several generations of parents to be more flexible and affectionate with their children, and to treat them as individuals. However, his theories were also widely criticized by colleagues for relying too heavily on anecdotal evidence rather than serious academic research." and "Spock was an activist in the New Left and anti Vietnam War movements during the 1960s and early 1970s. At the time, his books were criticized for propagating permissiveness and an expectation of instant gratification which allegedly led young people to join these movements—a charge that Spock denied."

Socio-Economic Status	Words/hour	Positive:negative
Professional	2153	6:1
Working Class	1251	2:1
Welfare Recipient	616	1:2

Positive:negative is encouragement:discouragement

Thus, the professional families raise their kinds in liberal fashion and the welfare ones in conservative fashion.

Jokes on everyone. Doesn’t matter how you raise your children, so long as you feed them and don’t abuse them.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

People are just like any other organism. If we're raised in an impoverished environment we're not going to thrive compared to someone raised in an enriched environment. It isn't magic.

 

[lpetrich]

The racial parenting divide: What Adrian Peterson reveals about black vs. white child-rearing - Salon.com - "Black parenting is often too authoritative. White parenting is often too permissive. Both need to change." - AP is a black woman.

Then an anecdote about a young white child getting to climb over a Washington Metro railcar's seats and hang from its bars, while the black people in it look annoyed at what that kid is getting away with. AP was with a professor who described how this demonstrates to the child that the world is worth trying to explore.

Many a black person has seen a white child yelling at his or her parents, while the parents calmly respond, gently scold, ignore, attempt to soothe, or failing all else, look embarrassed.

I can never recount one time, ever seeing a black child yell at his or her mother in public. Never. It is almost unfathomable.

Thus, black childrearing is in this way conservative while white childrearing is in this way liberal.

Libby Anne of Love, Joy, Feminism: Positive Parenting

Positive parenting focuses on raising children to be capable, independent, compassionate adults rather than on instilling obedience and compliance. Positive parenting sees children as individuals with needs of their own and focuses on cooperation and mutual respect between the parent and child. Positive parenting rejects corporal punishment and tends to minimize punishment in general, seeking instead to encourage good behavior and foster the child’s self-determination and understanding of natural consequences.

I adopted positive parenting when my first child, a daughter, was about a year old, and it completely transformed my relationship with her. No longer a contest of wills, parenting has become a cooperative enterprise filled with mutual respect and surprises along the way. For everything I’ve written on positive parenting, click here (positive parenting Archives - Love, Joy, Feminism).

I should note that my experiences with and thoughts on positive parenting fall against the backdrop of having been raised on the strict authoritarian discipline methods of Michael and Debi Pearl, as enshrined in their child rearing manual, To Train Up A Child. To read more about my thoughts on the Pearls and their methods, click here ("To Train Up A Child" - Love, Joy, Feminism).

She advocates liberal parenting instead of conservative parenting.

 

[Trausti]

The racial parenting divide: What Adrian Peterson reveals about black vs. white child-rearing - Salon.com - "Black parenting is often too authoritative. White parenting is often too permissive. Both need to change." - AP is a black woman.

Then an anecdote about a young white child getting to climb over a Washington Metro railcar's seats and hang from its bars, while the black people in it look annoyed at what that kid is getting away with. AP was with a professor who described how this demonstrates to the child that the world is worth trying to explore.

Many a black person has seen a white child yelling at his or her parents, while the parents calmly respond, gently scold, ignore, attempt to soothe, or failing all else, look embarrassed.

I can never recount one time, ever seeing a black child yell at his or her mother in public. Never. It is almost unfathomable.

Thus, black childrearing is in this way conservative while white childrearing is in this way liberal.

Libby Anne of Love, Joy, Feminism: Positive Parenting

Positive parenting focuses on raising children to be capable, independent, compassionate adults rather than on instilling obedience and compliance. Positive parenting sees children as individuals with needs of their own and focuses on cooperation and mutual respect between the parent and child. Positive parenting rejects corporal punishment and tends to minimize punishment in general, seeking instead to encourage good behavior and foster the child’s self-determination and understanding of natural consequences.

I adopted positive parenting when my first child, a daughter, was about a year old, and it completely transformed my relationship with her. No longer a contest of wills, parenting has become a cooperative enterprise filled with mutual respect and surprises along the way. For everything I’ve written on positive parenting, click here (positive parenting Archives - Love, Joy, Feminism).

I should note that my experiences with and thoughts on positive parenting fall against the backdrop of having been raised on the strict authoritarian discipline methods of Michael and Debi Pearl, as enshrined in their child rearing manual, To Train Up A Child. To read more about my thoughts on the Pearls and their methods, click here ("To Train Up A Child" - Love, Joy, Feminism).

She advocates liberal parenting instead of conservative parenting.

Oh, I donno. Tiger moms might be onto something.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

If you can't afford children, maybe you shouldn't have like five of them.

P.S.: Paula's parents seem to be able to afford a big screen TV. But apparently not blocks and books. Hmm.

However if your privileged spawn cannot get into the college you or they wish to without bribery and corruption, you are of the substantial class in american society.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

People are just like any other organism. If we're raised in an impoverished environment we're not going to thrive compared to someone raised in an enriched environment. It isn't magic.

Oh we know, and we "manage" our society with this knowledge.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

The racial parenting divide: What Adrian Peterson reveals about black vs. white child-rearing - Salon.com - "Black parenting is often too authoritative. White parenting is often too permissive. Both need to change." - AP is a black woman.

Then an anecdote about a young white child getting to climb over a Washington Metro railcar's seats and hang from its bars, while the black people in it look annoyed at what that kid is getting away with. AP was with a professor who described how this demonstrates to the child that the world is worth trying to explore.

Thus, black childrearing is in this way conservative while white childrearing is in this way liberal.

Libby Anne of Love, Joy, Feminism: Positive Parenting

She advocates liberal parenting instead of conservative parenting.

Oh, I donno. Tiger moms might be onto something.

Yes, raising useful dolts for the enterprise.

 

[Trausti]

The racial parenting divide: What Adrian Peterson reveals about black vs. white child-rearing - Salon.com - "Black parenting is often too authoritative. White parenting is often too permissive. Both need to change." - AP is a black woman.

Then an anecdote about a young white child getting to climb over a Washington Metro railcar's seats and hang from its bars, while the black people in it look annoyed at what that kid is getting away with. AP was with a professor who described how this demonstrates to the child that the world is worth trying to explore.

Thus, black childrearing is in this way conservative while white childrearing is in this way liberal.

Libby Anne of Love, Joy, Feminism: Positive Parenting

She advocates liberal parenting instead of conservative parenting.

Oh, I donno. Tiger moms might be onto something.

Yes, raising useful dolts for the enterprise.

Successful and well paid dolts.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Yes, raising useful dolts for the enterprise.

Successful and well paid dolts.

That is what we call success in this society, yes. Capital will decide if you have any value as a human being.

 

[Trausti]

Yes, raising useful dolts for the enterprise.

Successful and well paid dolts.

That is what we call success in this society, yes. Capital will decide if you have any value as a human being.

You should go get that strawman who peed in your Cheerios.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

That is what we call success in this society, yes. Capital will decide if you have any value as a human being.

You should go get that strawman who peed in your Cheerios.

Was this some sort of rebuttal to the concept? Tiger mom's cheat to get their kids into colleges with bribes.

 

[lpetrich]

Obedience, Empathy, and the Laundry Hamper by Libby Anne, noting
Teaching the Children: Sharp Ideological Differences, Some Common Ground | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Every parent wants their children to learn certain values and exhibit certain behaviors. It’s just that just what those values and behaviors are varies. The pew survey found that consistently conservative parents tend to see teaching religious faith and obedience as most important while consistently liberal parents instead value teaching empathy, curiosity, tolerance, and creativity.

The rise of American authoritarianism - Vox - a good predictor of support for Donald Trump was authoritarianism, and that could be measured by how one answers this questionnaire on parenting:

1. Independence or respect for elders?
2. Obedience or self-reliance?
3. To be considerate or to be well-behaved?
4. Curiosity or good manners?

Spare The Rod? PsychTests’ Study Reveals That Strict, Authoritarian Parenting Does Not Produce Well-Behaved Children
Patterns of Competence and Adjustments among Adolescents from Authoritative, Authoritarian, Indulgent, and Neglectful Families - 1990 - ED324557.pdf

Research by PsychTests.com indicates that using an Authoritarian parenting style, characterized by strict boundaries but little encouragement and support, can do much more harm than good.

Here’s an understatement: Parenting is complex. Many parents feel that it’s necessary to be strict; they want to keep their children safe and out of trouble, and perhaps even prepare them for the “real world.”

• R+ S- Authoritarian parents tend to set strict rules and boundaries, but rarely praise or encourage their children. Good behavior may or may not be rewarded, but bad behavior is punished without fail.
• R- S+ Permissive (indulgent) parents tend to be supportive and encouraging, but are also quite lenient. If they do set rules, they generally don’t enforce them too firmly.
• R+ S+ Authoritative parents are responsive and encouraging, yet firm. They support their children’s individuality and opinion, but they also set reasonable rules and boundaries, and most importantly, consistently enforce them.
• R- S- Uninvolved (neglectful) parents are neither responsive nor demanding. They offer little in the way of support and often fail to set rules and boundaries for their children. Their parenting approach tends to be rather negligent.

(list from the source, with R for rules, S for support)
Best to worst:

• ++ Authoritative
• +- Authoritarian, Permissive
• -- Uninvolved

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is to "fix" bad parenting would be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. It would take an incredibly invasive government.

And doing nothing because we have found the problem and can't fix it is superior to your approach of throwing gas on the fire by continuing to fix the blame elsewhere, thus absolving the parents of any responsibility for their misdeeds.

One cannot ‘fix’ poor parenting but the rest of society can and should do its best to provide whatever support is needed by the family.

It’s the right thing to do, in an absolute sense.

For those who don’t care about doing the ‘right’ thing: ultimately, it’s the cheapest. We save a lot of money by providing excellent education and support compared with what it costs to imprison people, for example.

The problem here is the notion that society can fix the problem. That has not been demonstrated. Throwing money at the inner city problems is an abject failure.

 

[Toni]

The problem is to "fix" bad parenting would be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. It would take an incredibly invasive government.

And doing nothing because we have found the problem and can't fix it is superior to your approach of throwing gas on the fire by continuing to fix the blame elsewhere, thus absolving the parents of any responsibility for their misdeeds.

One cannot ‘fix’ poor parenting but the rest of society can and should do its best to provide whatever support is needed by the family.

It’s the right thing to do, in an absolute sense.

For those who don’t care about doing the ‘right’ thing: ultimately, it’s the cheapest. We save a lot of money by providing excellent education and support compared with what it costs to imprison people, for example.

The problem here is the notion that society can fix the problem. That has not been demonstrated. Throwing money at the inner city problems is an abject failure.

It’s not just the owner cities that have poor people, Loren. Rural areas are also home to a lot of poor people—and I’m not talking about migrant workers’ children but sure, those families as well.

You keep saying things like richer parents care more about their kids than poor parents, bit that’s not even close to true. Nor is it true that problems of inner cities are limited to inner cities: poor people also live in small towns, rural areas and gasp! the burbs! There are good parents and bad parents and parents who would do anything for their kids—and those who don’t give a damn at every single socioeconomic strata that existed.

Absolute none of any of that is the fault of the preschooler or first grader or middle schooler or high schooler —or kid going to college or trade school or community college.

Not only do they deserve our very best efforts to give them the best possible shot at the best possible future but it’s in our own best interests to give them the best we can.

Kids who grow up in poverty are as deserving and valuable as the kids of the wealthiest families.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

The problem is to "fix" bad parenting would be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. It would take an incredibly invasive government.

And doing nothing because we have found the problem and can't fix it is superior to your approach of throwing gas on the fire by continuing to fix the blame elsewhere, thus absolving the parents of any responsibility for their misdeeds.

One cannot ‘fix’ poor parenting but the rest of society can and should do its best to provide whatever support is needed by the family.

It’s the right thing to do, in an absolute sense.

For those who don’t care about doing the ‘right’ thing: ultimately, it’s the cheapest. We save a lot of money by providing excellent education and support compared with what it costs to imprison people, for example.

The problem here is the notion that society can fix the problem. That has not been demonstrated. Throwing money at the inner city problems is an abject failure.

What does throwing money at the "job creators" solve?

 

[Fentoine Lum]

The problem is to "fix" bad parenting would be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. It would take an incredibly invasive government.

And doing nothing because we have found the problem and can't fix it is superior to your approach of throwing gas on the fire by continuing to fix the blame elsewhere, thus absolving the parents of any responsibility for their misdeeds.

One cannot ‘fix’ poor parenting but the rest of society can and should do its best to provide whatever support is needed by the family.

It’s the right thing to do, in an absolute sense.

For those who don’t care about doing the ‘right’ thing: ultimately, it’s the cheapest. We save a lot of money by providing excellent education and support compared with what it costs to imprison people, for example.

The problem here is the notion that society can fix the problem. That has not been demonstrated. Throwing money at the inner city problems is an abject failure.

No, capitalism is a failure. It only has to "work" for a privileged few, much like with this "representative democracy".