Ontario raising minimum wage to $15

[dismal]

And I suppose you agree with "we had to burn the village down to save it".

Because that's what you're saying here--throwing them into complete poverty is superior to working a shit job. It's not like they'll get a better one--the existence of the shit jobs proves there aren't enough non-shit jobs.

What I'm saying is that the removal of jobs like these is a net positive for consumers who don't want their food made by someone who hates the place they work at. Anything else you choose to attribute to my post beyond that is all you, babe.

Anywho, wether or not these jobs going away is a good or bad thing doesn't matter. What matters is that they're going away and you can't stop it. We can only adapt to the changing paradigm. So spare me your crocodile tears for the working lower-class.

I hope you enjoyed your emotional venting.

Now, back in reality, do you see a lot of evidence people won't eat at the Taco Bell because they're worried about how much the people working there make?

Do you see a lot of greedy capitalists driving hordes of customers to their restaurants by advertising how much their employees are paid?

Do you see any hint of evidence in the real world you may be right?

 

[LordKiran]

What I'm saying is that the removal of jobs like these is a net positive for consumers who don't want their food made by someone who hates the place they work at. Anything else you choose to attribute to my post beyond that is all you, babe.

Anywho, wether or not these jobs going away is a good or bad thing doesn't matter. What matters is that they're going away and you can't stop it. We can only adapt to the changing paradigm. So spare me your crocodile tears for the working lower-class.

I hope you enjoyed your emotional venting. [1]

Now, back in reality, do you see a lot of evidence people won't eat at the Taco Bell because they're worried about how much the people working there make? [2]

Do you see a lot of greedy capitalists driving hordes of customers to their restaurants by advertising how much their employees are paid? [3]

Do you see any hint of evidence in the real world you may be right?

1. Projection much?

2. Can you explain why that would or should matter?

3. Can you explain why that would or should matter?

4. People don't typically like having their food spat in, their food being late, their order being wrong, or milkshake machines being broken. I think I can safely take all of those assumptions for granted thank you very much.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Hmmm, maybe this theory that the demand for unskilled labor will go up as the price goes up

That's not anyone's theory that I'm aware of.

Of course, the other way it is off is that this money does not appear as if manna from heaven.

Actually, the other way to look at it is there is a point of diminishing returns to how high you can crank the minimum wage before it becomes less helpful than burdensome. But that goes without saying; raising the minimum wage to $100/hour overnight would simply drive most employers out of business anyway.

You also seem to have missed the actual point of your link, which ultimately concludes:

“Nobody in their right mind would say that raising the minimum wage to $25 an hour would have no effect on employment,” Autor said. “The question is where is the point where it becomes relevant. And apparently in Seattle, it’s around $13.”

As it stands, the low end of a living wage in Seattle is considered to be about $18 an hour. The effect on employment rates was non-existent when they raised it to $11 and, interestingly, even the effects at $13 are not well understood (contradictory and incomplete datasets all around). If anything, though, this should tell you something important: you can set the minimum wage at around 60% of the community's living wage without destroying the economy. The positive effects will mostly offset the negative at that rate.

 

[untermensche]

I hope you enjoyed your emotional venting.

Now, back in reality, do you see a lot of evidence people won't eat at the Taco Bell because they're worried about how much the people working there make?

Do you see a lot of greedy capitalists driving hordes of customers to their restaurants by advertising how much their employees are paid?

Do you see any hint of evidence in the real world you may be right?

It's a process of dehumanization.

The capitalist does not see individuals as humans with lives. They see the individual as a tool too hopefully use towards their ends.

And so they treat humans as a tool, reduce them to a tool.

It is inherent in the master/slave aspect of the relationship.

The employee is not an actual slave but if they do not behave as one they will be out of a job.

Top down dictatorial relationships are ways to dehumanize and exploit.

Nothing to defend or base a decent society around.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And I suppose you agree with "we had to burn the village down to save it".

Because that's what you're saying here--throwing them into complete poverty is superior to working a shit job. It's not like they'll get a better one--the existence of the shit jobs proves there aren't enough non-shit jobs.

What I'm saying is that the removal of jobs like these is a net positive for consumers who don't want their food made by someone who hates the place they work at. Anything else you choose to attribute to my post beyond that is all you, babe.

Anywho, wether or not these jobs going away is a good or bad thing doesn't matter. What matters is that they're going away and you can't stop it. We can only adapt to the changing paradigm. So spare me your crocodile tears for the working lower-class.

If they don't want to buy their food from a place where the workers hate it they can vote with their dollars and patronize a place that pays it's workers more.

They don't, however.

And you still seem to feel it's better for someone to have no job than a poor job.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I hope you enjoyed your emotional venting. [1]

Now, back in reality, do you see a lot of evidence people won't eat at the Taco Bell because they're worried about how much the people working there make? [2]

Do you see a lot of greedy capitalists driving hordes of customers to their restaurants by advertising how much their employees are paid? [3]

Do you see any hint of evidence in the real world you may be right?

1. Projection much?

2. Can you explain why that would or should matter?

3. Can you explain why that would or should matter?

4. People don't typically like having their food spat in, their food being late, their order being wrong, or milkshake machines being broken. I think I can safely take all of those assumptions for granted thank you very much.

The problem is you are making claims about people's behavior that aren't supported by the market--if you were right a business could do a very good job by advertising based on how they treat their workers. Strangely enough, I can't recall seeing a single ad with this basis.

 

[LordKiran]

What I'm saying is that the removal of jobs like these is a net positive for consumers who don't want their food made by someone who hates the place they work at. Anything else you choose to attribute to my post beyond that is all you, babe.

Anywho, wether or not these jobs going away is a good or bad thing doesn't matter. What matters is that they're going away and you can't stop it. We can only adapt to the changing paradigm. So spare me your crocodile tears for the working lower-class.

If they don't want to buy their food from a place where the workers hate it they can vote with their dollars and patronize a place that pays it's workers more.

They don't, however.

And you still seem to feel it's better for someone to have no job than a poor job.

<--The point





<--Your head

 

[LordKiran]

1. Projection much?

2. Can you explain why that would or should matter?

3. Can you explain why that would or should matter?

4. People don't typically like having their food spat in, their food being late, their order being wrong, or milkshake machines being broken. I think I can safely take all of those assumptions for granted thank you very much.

The problem is you are making claims about people's behavior that aren't supported by the market--if you were right a business could do a very good job by advertising based on how they treat their workers. Strangely enough, I can't recall seeing a single ad with this basis.

People don't like it when they're food is made by people who:

-spit in their food

-get their orders wrong

-give them their food late/cold

-are rude

Employees who do such things are typically people who hate their job and don't give a crap about doing 'well enough' never-mind their best.
And it makes sense, at 7.50-8.25 an hour, you get what you pay for.

 

[dismal]

The problem is you are making claims about people's behavior that aren't supported by the market--if you were right a business could do a very good job by advertising based on how they treat their workers. Strangely enough, I can't recall seeing a single ad with this basis.

People don't like it when they're food is made by people who:

-spit in their food

-get their orders wrong

-give them their food late/cold

-are rude

Employees who do such things are typically people who hate their job and don't give a crap about doing 'well enough' never-mind their best.
And it makes sense, at 7.50-8.25 an hour, you get what you pay for.

Those are good arguments for why courts shouldn't force bakers to bake cakes for people they don't want to bake them for.

You have not established what they have to do with the minimum wage, however.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Anywho, wether or not these jobs going away is a good or bad thing doesn't matter. What matters is that they're going away and you can't stop it. We can only adapt to the changing paradigm. So spare me your crocodile tears for the working lower-class.

Aye, and that is why UBI is important. We will be losing more and more jobs as we increase technology, and eventually the day will come when no simple human labour now being done by minimum wage workers is needed at all. Then any minimum wage would be completely irrelevant, as nobody would get paid it. They'd either be making more or be unemployable, and more and more will join the unemployable group as technology improves.

 

[LordKiran]

People don't like it when they're food is made by people who:

-spit in their food

-get their orders wrong

-give them their food late/cold

-are rude

Employees who do such things are typically people who hate their job and don't give a crap about doing 'well enough' never-mind their best.
And it makes sense, at 7.50-8.25 an hour, you get what you pay for.

Those are good arguments for why courts shouldn't force bakers to bake cakes for people they don't want to bake them for. [1]

You have not established what they have to do with the minimum wage, however. [2]

1. Na, it's a good reason not to do business with people with a known reputation of hating baking for gay marraiges though.

2. The post I'm ultimately responding to has nothing directly to do with the topic.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I'm curious LordKiran, is there an amount of payment people know when that their food isn't being spit in and what is that dollar amount?

 

[LordKiran]

I'm curious LordKiran, is there an amount of payment people know when that their food isn't being spit in and what is that dollar amount?

Truthfully, my point was more in regards to the advantages of machines over people in general, but if we compared fast food workers to other similar roles, I'd be willing to bet you the fast food workers would on average make more mistakes and generally offer lower quality service than a qualified waitstaff in fine dining. (This can have a variety of reasons, the informal nature of hiring and the general lack of requisites for fast food work definitely contributing.) but one of them is also certainly pay. When incentivizing employees with a proper wage, the employer is in a position to demand greater performance. Otherwise "What am I paying you for?" sounds less like a legitimate question and more like a joke.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I'm curious LordKiran, is there an amount of payment people know when that their food isn't being spit in and what is that dollar amount?

Truthfully, my point was more in regards to the advantages of machines over people in general, but if we compared fast food workers to other similar roles, I'd be willing to bet you the fast food workers would on average make more mistakes and generally offer lower quality service than a qualified waitstaff in fine dining. (This can have a variety of reasons, the informal nature of hiring and the general lack of requisites for fast food work definitely contributing.) but one of them is also certainly pay. When incentivizing employees with a proper wage, the employer is in a position to demand greater performance. Otherwise "What am I paying you for?" sounds less like a legitimate question and more like a joke.

But I have no idea if someone making $8 an hour or making $15 an hour will spit in my food. All I know is the taste and quality of those foods. And since I've been a repeat customer of taco bell I am okay with choosing a lower quality food item. So if they shut down taco bell because we can't allow those people to be paid too little, then both me and the workers are worse off.

 

[LordKiran]

Truthfully, my point was more in regards to the advantages of machines over people in general, but if we compared fast food workers to other similar roles, I'd be willing to bet you the fast food workers would on average make more mistakes and generally offer lower quality service than a qualified waitstaff in fine dining. (This can have a variety of reasons, the informal nature of hiring and the general lack of requisites for fast food work definitely contributing.) but one of them is also certainly pay. When incentivizing employees with a proper wage, the employer is in a position to demand greater performance. Otherwise "What am I paying you for?" sounds less like a legitimate question and more like a joke.

But I have no idea if someone making $8 an hour or making $15 an hour will spit in my food. All I know is the taste and quality of those foods. And since I've been a repeat customer of taco bell I am okay with choosing a lower quality food item. So if they shut down taco bell because we can't allow those people to be paid too little, then both me and the workers are worse off.

The greater point here is that better pay begets better service, which is absolutely true.

 

[coloradoatheist]

But I have no idea if someone making $8 an hour or making $15 an hour will spit in my food. All I know is the taste and quality of those foods. And since I've been a repeat customer of taco bell I am okay with choosing a lower quality food item. So if they shut down taco bell because we can't allow those people to be paid too little, then both me and the workers are worse off.

The greater point here is that better pay begets better service, which is absolutely true.

Not always, sometimes quantity is more important than quality.

 

[dismal]

I'm curious LordKiran, is there an amount of payment people know when that their food isn't being spit in and what is that dollar amount?

Well obviously it's higher than the current minimum wage which is why no one eats at restaurants.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If they don't want to buy their food from a place where the workers hate it they can vote with their dollars and patronize a place that pays it's workers more.

They don't, however.

And you still seem to feel it's better for someone to have no job than a poor job.

<--The point





<--Your head

In other words, you're "thinking" with your emotions rather than your brain and don't want to admit that what want would actually hurt people even though it would make you feel better.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is you are making claims about people's behavior that aren't supported by the market--if you were right a business could do a very good job by advertising based on how they treat their workers. Strangely enough, I can't recall seeing a single ad with this basis.

People don't like it when they're food is made by people who:

-spit in their food

-get their orders wrong

-give them their food late/cold

-are rude

Employees who do such things are typically people who hate their job and don't give a crap about doing 'well enough' never-mind their best.
And it makes sense, at 7.50-8.25 an hour, you get what you pay for.

So you would prefer that people are unemployed so they don't have a chance to do bad things to you?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The greater point here is that better pay begets better service, which is absolutely true.

Not always, sometimes quantity is more important than quality.

Um... in what restaurant or establishment or service industry of any kind is the "quantity of service" is more important than the quality? What does that even mean?

"Yes, the service here sucks, the employees have shitty attitudes and mumble when they talk, never get your order right and take forever to give you your food -- which is always cold and leaking, by the way -- but I also know that I can order 50 cheeseburgers in one sitting where most restaurants will only give me 10 and that's so much more important than the shitty service"
- No One Ever