Pelosi brought Trump to his knees

[Patooka]

What would you suggest to ascertain public sentiment?

Voting.

So, you got nothing to counter the polls that showed who was being blamed forbthe shutdown.
Just an IOU for evidence some time in the future... fingers crossed, eh?

Well, you could look at the results of the last election for government in the US, which was November 2018, and the last US presidential election. In both instances a majority of the electorate firmly disagree with Trump and his practices.

I'm looking forward to hearing the gymnastics required to explain how Mexico has paid for a wall that doesn't exist with money no one is willing to spend. That's some existential philosophical bullshit right there.

 

[sharon45]

What?
He said, no deal without a wall.
She said, no, deal without a wall.

We have a deal. He doesn't have a wall. She's still where she was a month ago.

A mere deal of a postponement. As was said, we still need to wait at least to February 15th for the real deal.

Do you have anything to dispute my analysis?
Will another shutdown be effective? Why?

I don't personally think a government shutdown is positively effective. Both major sides are being childish in my opinion, it's just that I still think Trump has the upperhand, even despite his poor cards.

Trump lost chips, and he lost the deal. Maybe he can pull an ace out of his sleeve with the emergency powers, but if he was confident that would work, he already would have.

He already has the grand impudence to play around with government and that is sure enough.

His impudence was not enough. And everyone now knows it wasn't.
He can only win with a shutdown if the Dems break ranks, and the Reps stand firm. Neither of those has become any more likely in the next three weeks.
Dems were elected specifically to stand up to the Orange Shitgibbon. They are not the ones worried about their chances in two years.

Well, they ought to be worried, instead of always underestimating their adversary.

 

[Keith&Co.]

A mere deal of a postponement.

Mere! Ha!
Trump demanded $5 billion for his Wall.
Nancy demanded the government be opened before negotiating on the wall.

One got what they asked for. The other is sucking hind tit.

As was said, we still need to wait at least to February 15th for the real deal.

But I am asking for any reason to think the Dems have poor cards. You said they did. Was that just hot air?

Well, they ought to be worried, instead of always underestimating their adversary.

Always?
They bet that Trump would be pressured more than they would.
Trump bet tgat they would back down.
Trump dared Pelosi to take away his SOTU, and she did.

Trump is the one who underestimated.

Pelosi has taken his measure. She has dealt with grandchildren before.

 

[Politesse]

Funding for the wall that the Administration wanted.

There is no fucking way that Trump and his handlers (like wrangling cats) and donors actually wanted a wall built.

Not for only a lousy 250 miles.

Have a wall built and not have a fresh supply illegal immigrant underclass labor? No way that will happen.

You seem to be imagining that a Wall would be vastly more effective at stopping traffic than it actually would be.

 

[sharon45]

If mexico paid, why the fuck does Trump need taxpayer money?

Well, they clearly didn't cut him a check.

He does own it,

Not according to the month he spent tweeting that the Democrats were to blame for the shutdown...

Finding blame doesn't necessarily take him off of the ownership title.

and he owns its reopening.

He tried to claim it, but he wasted $billions and produced nothing. So, he owns...nothing? Or negative billions?

As president, he has to accept the good and the bad of his administration, whether he admits to it or not.

Trump was adamant he would not reopen the government unless there was funding for the wall until he wasn't.

Well, obviously he was flexible here, and we'll see what happens after this.

that's the whole point. WAS adamant, on lots of things, NOW flexible, because he isn't getting what he wants.

Neither major side is getting what it wants, since we don't have sufficient border security.

And another word for 'flexible' here is 'losing.'

Yes, or also winning.

What would you suggest to ascertain public sentiment?

Voting.

So, you got nothing to counter the polls that showed who was being blamed forbthe shutdown.
Just an IOU for evidence some time in the future... fingers crossed, eh?

I don't cross my fingers or consult with ouija boards either. Polls are about like any other superstition to me.

 

[sharon45]

So, you got nothing to counter the polls that showed who was being blamed forbthe shutdown.
Just an IOU for evidence some time in the future... fingers crossed, eh?

Well, you could look at the results of the last election for government in the US, which was November 2018, and the last US presidential election. In both instances a majority of the electorate firmly disagree with Trump and his practices.

Then, as I've said elsewhere, Trump shouldn't be able to win reelection.

I'm looking forward to hearing the gymnastics required to explain how Mexico has paid for a wall that doesn't exist with money no one is willing to spend. That's some existential philosophical bullshit right there.

This is from the Democrats' own figures claiming that hardly anyone has come in America illegally recently.

 

[sharon45]

Mere! Ha!
Trump demanded $5 billion for his Wall.
Nancy demanded the government be opened before negotiating on the wall.

One got what they asked for. The other is sucking hind tit.

We'll reportedly see by the 15th.

But I am asking for any reason to think the Dems have poor cards. You said they did. Was that just hot air?

I also said that Trump could win with a nothing hand, because like poker, politics can be largely about lying, and Trump has spent a career lying.

Well, they ought to be worried, instead of always underestimating their adversary.

Always?
They bet that Trump would be pressured more than they would.
Trump bet tgat they would back down.
Trump dared Pelosi to take away his SOTU, and she did.

And even Ann Coulter is constantly underestimating Trump, and so much now, that she currently calls herself a stupid girl for supposedly trusting him before, although she never honestly understood Trump.

Trump is the one who underestimated.

Pelosi has taken his measure. She has dealt with grandchildren before.

Pelosi sure ain't a fool, but she is now bartering against some very different whelp here.

 

[Toni]

Pelosi sure ain't a fool, but she is now bartering against some very different whelp here.

I think you vastly overestimate Trump. He's not used to hearing no.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Pelosi sure ain't a fool, but she is now bartering against some very different whelp here.

I think you vastly overestimate Trump. He's not used to hearing no.

He's clearly intimidated by Pelosi. I think he's intimidated by women generally because he sees them as objects, not individuals. So when he can't have his way with one, he doesn't know what to do. Should he just grab a crotch? Clearly he's confounded.

 

[dismal]

Mere! Ha!
Trump demanded $5 billion for his Wall.
Nancy demanded the government be opened before negotiating on the wall.

One got what they asked for. The other is sucking hind tit. But I am asking for any reason to think the Dems have poor cards. You said they did. Was that just hot air?

Well, they ought to be worried, instead of always underestimating their adversary.

Always?
They bet that Trump would be pressured more than they would.
Trump bet tgat they would back down.
Trump dared Pelosi to take away his SOTU, and she did.

Trump is the one who underestimated.

Pelosi has taken his measure. She has dealt with grandchildren before.

You didn't answer my question before.

Did you actually think the government shut down would end in there being a wall?

Did anyone here?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Well, they clearly didn't cut him a check.

Yes, I know that.
I ask you to explain your assertion that Mexico has already paid for the Wall. When? How?
How did dollars get from Mexico to the Treasury, and how many of them did?

Not according to the month he spent tweeting that the Democrats were to blame for the shutdown...

Finding blame doesn't necessarily take him off of the ownership title.

He literally said, I will own it, I will not blame you for it.
Then he blamed them for it.
That is not owning it.
It's also not honesty.

It's being a two-faced little weasel.

Thing is, no one was surprised. Even when he stated that he'd own it, commentators knew there was a half-life to that assertion.

Neither major side is getting what it wants, since we don't have sufficient border security.

Ah. So here, 'flexible' means that Trump isn't the ONLY loser.

The Dems are not in favor of open borders, and they are willing to improve border security except
1) not as part of a hostage-taking negotiation
2) not thru a useless monument to Trump's ego

And another word for 'flexible' here is 'losing.'

Yes, or also winning.

Nope. No winning, here. Trump made absolutely no gains through the shutdown. So trying to picture his loss as 'flexible' or 'winning' is pure fantasy.

Anyway, how has Mexico paid for the wall?

 

[Keith&Co.]

We'll reportedly see by the 15th.

That's quite the spin effort, not counting it as a stunning loss because maybe he'll pull a win out of his ass later.

I also said that Trump could win with a nothing hand, because like poker, politics can be largely about lying, and Trump has spent a career lying.

Yeah, but lying about what's in your hand only works if people won't call your bluff.

Trump's bluff was called.

A 'nothing' hand won't win if they are tired of your lying and willing to call your bluff.

Pelosi sure ain't a fool, but she is now bartering against some very different whelp here.

No, not really.

Note that Trump was totally unable to barter this time. He demanded, and walked out sulking when he didn't get everything he wanted.
He tried to come up with a deal, but there were no Democrats present when the Republicans crafted the deal. This is not bartering, it's not how deals are made.

He just spent a month demonstrating that Pelosi has at least as good a hand as he does, if not the upper hand. HE took away a government that he needs as much as she does, SHE took away his national spotlight that cuts him right in the goolies.

He's been out of his league since he was sworn in, and he no longer has full coverage for his failings...

Maybe a diagram? Show a block diagram of Mexico, the Treasury, and how dollars flow from one to the other? Maybe some dates?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's quite the spin effort, not counting it as a stunning loss because maybe he'll pull a win out of his ass later. Yeah, but lying about what's in your hand only works if people won't call your bluff.

Look, I appreciate that it doesn't look good for Andy Reid and the Chiefs to win this Sunday, but trust me, Reid has a plan!

Pelosi sure ain't a fool, but she is now bartering against some very different whelp here.

Pelosi is used to negotiating with people smart enough to know what is and isn't winnable. Trump isn't shrewd... he survived in the past thanks to crafty lawyers and accountants... and underlawyered opponents.

And the only way he has been able to get money to do anything in the last decade or two was via laundering money for the Russians. So maybe a Russian oligarch can help fund the wall... you know, buy it, then get an immediate mortgage on it.

 

[Terrell]

Pelosi 1, Trump 0.

He should forget about his wall, it's not like there aren't airplanes, tunnels, smugglers that can sneak things through authorized checkpoints, ships, etc. to make the wall ineffective.

Pelosi ran Trump over with one of those big 70s Cadillacs, backed it up, and ran over him again.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Pelosi 1, Trump 0.

He should forget about his wall, it's not like there aren't airplanes, tunnels, smugglers that can sneak things through authorized checkpoints, ships, etc. to make the wall ineffective.

Pelosi ran Trump over with one of those big 70s Cadillacs, backed it up, and ran over him again.

Trump's loyalists and to a degree republican loyalists actually believe this wall is something valuable. They think when it's built we all walk away from drugs and illegal mexicans. They honestly believe that! If you haven't talked to a few then do your homework. I couldn't believe it at first myself, it's scary.

Money can certainly be used to erect barriers in locations but that is not going to have any lasting effect, but his loyalists simply do not know that. Whether Trumpo knows that is fairly certain, he knows it will not work. If there will be a discussion about border security that includes experts, folks from both sides of the border, and not political partisans, it will conclude that a wall is a waste of money.

 

[Treedbear]

We'll reportedly see by the 15th.

That's quite the spin effort, not counting it as a stunning loss because maybe he'll pull a win out of his ass later.

I also said that Trump could win with a nothing hand, because like poker, politics can be largely about lying, and Trump has spent a career lying.

Yeah, but lying about what's in your hand only works if people won't call your bluff.

Trump's bluff was called.

A 'nothing' hand won't win if they are tired of your lying and willing to call your bluff.
...

The SOTU is back for 2/5 and trump will again get to bring his act to Congress. That might be worth it to him depending on what he has planned. If he can turn it into a fiasco by taunting the Dems he could restore the loss of credibility with his base (they have very high standards). I really hope Pelosi actually can control her new members. Petulance is not a good defense against impudence.

 

[sharon45]

Pelosi sure ain't a fool, but she is now bartering against some very different whelp here.

I think you vastly overestimate Trump. He's not used to hearing no.

Of course Trump is used to hearing no, he just counters it.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Meh.

Trump will probably draw the respect Trump has earned. By which I refer to three years of lying about what the Democrats do, want, and have done in the past. Probably 20% of the room will be on their phones, fact-checking his lines.

But, yeah, someone shouting 'liar' during the speech would be completely intolerable to the Republican rank and file. One simply just show respect for the office, no matter the feelings for the man.

 

[Keith&Co.]

He's not used to hearing no.

Of course Trump is used to hearing no, he just counters it.

Not this time, he didn't

Or when he called Mexico and asked the President to pay for the wall. He didn't counter that no, either.

 

[sharon45]

Yes, I know that.
I ask you to explain your assertion that Mexico has already paid for the Wall.

I said that it isn't my assertion, since there is supposedly a lot less illegal immigration across the southern border lately.

When? How?
How did dollars get from Mexico to the Treasury, and how many of them did?

Less money being sent back to Mexico and more money kept in America.

Finding blame doesn't necessarily take him off of the ownership title.

He literally said, I will own it, I will not blame you for it.
Then he blamed them for it.
That is not owning it.

Then we simply disagree.

Thing is, no one was surprised. Even when he stated that he'd own it, commentators knew there was a half-life to that assertion.

Well, I don't care what he says, since he is a habitual liar, I realize that he still owns the shutdown.

Neither major side is getting what it wants, since we don't have sufficient border security.

Ah. So here, 'flexible' means that Trump isn't the ONLY loser.

Sure, if you can't wait less than three weeks.

The Dems are not in favor of open borders, and they are willing to improve border security except
1) not as part of a hostage-taking negotiation
2) not thru a useless monument to Trump's ego

I know that neither side is actually interested in improved border security given their pitiful record over at least the last 30 years.

And another word for 'flexible' here is 'losing.'

Yes, or also winning.

Nope. No winning, here. Trump made absolutely no gains through the shutdown. So trying to picture his loss as 'flexible' or 'winning' is pure fantasy.

Okay, if I am wrong, I'll know in a couple of weeks, and I won't have to bother anyone anymore talking about Trump.