Persecution: Christian on atheist or atheist on Christian?

[Unknown Soldier]

People do get persecuted for their beliefs on a lot of issues. That's a historical fact. What you avow believing whether it be religious, political, or something else, it's a sure bet that many will disagree with you. And some people cannot handle disagreement and will turn to abuse, harassment, and even threats of violence against those who hold views they cannot tolerate.

Of course, two groups that have alleged persecution from believers and atheists are atheists and Christians! Christians cite what dictators like Stalin have done to them as evidence for the persecution they've endured, and many atheists cite individual Christians as their persecutors. So who is being persecuted?

Based on my own personal experiences as a Christian and later as an atheist, both groups have been persecutors and the persecuted. Atheists mocked my Christian beliefs and practices, and Christians have attacked me for even suggesting my lack of faith.

And who are the worse persecutors? I sincerely think that atheists are. They really go for the jugular!

 

[Swammerdami]

Atheists may mock religious people, but do they "go for the jugular"? Resort to physical violence? Over the centuries, Muslims and Christians have persecuted heretics and non-believers physically. Over 200,000 were killed in the  Albigensian Crusade. Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler. Even the U.S. treated Natives brutally, and more recently probably treated Iraqis and Afghans with less respect because they were non-Christians.

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot may have been "atheists" but it seems unfair to blame their excesses on "atheism."

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Atheists may mock religious people, but do they "go for the jugular"? Resort to physical violence? Over the centuries, Muslims and Christians have persecuted heretics and non-believers physically. Over 200,000 were killed in the  Albigensian Crusade. Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler. Even the U.S. treated Natives brutally, and more recently probably treated Iraqis and Afghans with less respect because they were non-Christians.

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot may have been "atheists" but it seems unfair to blame their excesses on "atheism."

Based on what I know about Stalin, he was influenced by Christianity and the Bible to violently persecute all his perceived enemies, and that includes Christianity. So yes--absolutely some atheists will resort to physical violence to persecute the religious.

Anyway, your denial that atheist dictators' violence should not be blamed on atheism reminds me of the "no true Christian" fallacy often committed by Christians. For them, Christians never do evil because they are assumed to be unable to do evil. Any supposed Christians who do evil therefore are not true Christians.

 

[TomC]

Atheists may mock religious people, but do they "go for the jugular"? Resort to physical violence? Over the centuries, Muslims and Christians have persecuted heretics and non-believers physically. Over 200,000 were killed in the  Albigensian Crusade. Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler. Even the U.S. treated Natives brutally, and more recently probably treated Iraqis and Afghans with less respect because they were non-Christians.

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot may have been "atheists" but it seems unfair to blame their excesses on "atheism."

Based on what I know about Stalin, he was influenced by Christianity and the Bible to violently persecute all his perceived enemies, and that includes Christianity. So yes--absolutely some atheists will resort to physical violence to persecute the religious.

Anyway, your denial that atheist dictators' violence should not be blamed on atheism reminds me of the "no true Christian" fallacy often committed by Christians. For them, Christians never do evil because they are assumed to be unable to do evil. Any supposed Christians who do evil therefore are not true Christians.

Stalin was an atheist. Trump is a Christian.
Other than that the difference is small, except that Stalin was smarter and more successful.
Tom

 

[unapologetic]

Ever since christianity started it has persecuted EVERYBODY, even other religions, not just nonbelievers.
What you are seeing now is BLOWBACK for the continues persecution that started long before you were born.
Does this blowback seem worse? Good, they got it coming. Thay started it.

Sometimes I think christianity 'dumbed down' Rome the same way is-lame 'dumbed down' the mid east.

(Williamsport? Cool, I'm in Columbia county.)

 

[Tigers!]

Atheists may mock religious people, but do they "go for the jugular"? Resort to physical violence? Over the centuries, Muslims and Christians have persecuted heretics and non-believers physically. Over 200,000 were killed in the  Albigensian Crusade. Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler. Even the U.S. treated Natives brutally, and more recently probably treated Iraqis and Afghans with less respect because they were non-Christians.

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot may have been "atheists" but it seems unfair to blame their excesses on "atheism."

Based on what I know about Stalin, he was influenced by Christianity and the Bible to violently persecute all his perceived enemies, and that includes Christianity. So yes--absolutely some atheists will resort to physical violence to persecute the religious.

Anyway, your denial that atheist dictators' violence should not be blamed on atheism reminds me of the "no true Christian" fallacy often committed by Christians. For them, Christians never do evil because they are assumed to be unable to do evil. Any supposed Christians who do evil therefore are not true Christians.

Stalin was an atheist. Trump is a Christian.
Other than that the difference is small, except that Stalin was smarter and more successful.
Tom

If by successful you mean killed more then certainty Stalin was more successful.
Paraphrasing 1 Sam 18:7 "Stalin has killed his millions and Trump has killed ????"

 

[Tigers!]

Ever since christianity started it has persecuted EVERYBODY, even other religions, not just nonbelievers.
What you are seeing now is BLOWBACK for the continues persecution that started long before you were born.
Does this blowback seem worse? Good, they got it coming. Thay started it.

How very empathic and merciful of you.

 

[Tigers!]

Regarding persecution nobody can claim clean hands.

 

[TomC]

Atheists may mock religious people, but do they "go for the jugular"? Resort to physical violence? Over the centuries, Muslims and Christians have persecuted heretics and non-believers physically. Over 200,000 were killed in the  Albigensian Crusade. Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler. Even the U.S. treated Natives brutally, and more recently probably treated Iraqis and Afghans with less respect because they were non-Christians.

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot may have been "atheists" but it seems unfair to blame their excesses on "atheism."

Based on what I know about Stalin, he was influenced by Christianity and the Bible to violently persecute all his perceived enemies, and that includes Christianity. So yes--absolutely some atheists will resort to physical violence to persecute the religious.

Anyway, your denial that atheist dictators' violence should not be blamed on atheism reminds me of the "no true Christian" fallacy often committed by Christians. For them, Christians never do evil because they are assumed to be unable to do evil. Any supposed Christians who do evil therefore are not true Christians.

Stalin was an atheist. Trump is a Christian.
Other than that the difference is small, except that Stalin was smarter and more successful.
Tom

If by successful you mean killed more then certainty Stalin was more successful.
Paraphrasing 1 Sam 18:7 "Stalin has killed his millions and Trump has killed ????"

That isn't what I meant by successful.
Stalin better used his religious claims to acquire power.
Tom

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Ever since christianity started it has persecuted EVERYBODY, even other religions, not just nonbelievers.

That's not true. There have been times when some Christians engaged in persecutions, but that's hardly "ever since Christianity started."

What you are seeing now is BLOWBACK for the continues persecution that started long before you were born.
Does this blowback seem worse? Good, they got it coming. Thay started it.

So you advocate persecuting Christians. Do you allow for mercy on Christians who never persecuted anybody? You know, like infants and small children, or should we get them too?

Sometimes I think christianity 'dumbed down' Rome the same way is-lame 'dumbed down' the mid east.

Can anybody else see the irony of alleging a "dumbing down" in a sentence full of spelling and capitalization errors?

(Williamsport? Cool, I'm in Columbia county.)

Please stay there.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Regarding persecution nobody can claim clean hands.

Neither all atheists nor all Christians can truthfully claim clean hands. Right on this thread we have an atheist calling for the persecution of Christians.

 

[bilby]

Atheists mocked my Christian beliefs and practices

Mockery is not persecution.

 

[bilby]

Stalin was an atheist.

No, he wasn't. He was an orthodox seminarian; Then he decided to build a new religion with himself as the God.

He was never an atheist; More a cynical and self-serving God of his own religion.

 

[TomC]

Stalin was an atheist.

No, he wasn't. He was an orthodox seminarian; Then he decided to build a new religion with himself as the God.

He was never an atheist; More a cynical and self-serving God of his own religion.

I agree.
But he called himself one. Trump calls himself a Christian, for the same reasons. It helped acquire power. Since there's no objective standard for either, I just go with what people self-identify.

But I absolutely do think Stalin simply created a state religion for his own purposes. An ineffable higher power, the proletariat. A dead prophet, Marx. And a high priest that speaks for them, so must be obeyed on pain of death, Stalin.
Of course, no other religions could be tolerated.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Of course, two groups that have alleged persecution from believers and atheists are atheists and Christians! Christians cite what dictators like Stalin have done to them as evidence for the persecution they've endured, and many atheists cite individual Christians as their persecutors. So who is being persecuted?

Based on my own personal experiences as a Christian and later as an atheist, both groups have been persecutors and the persecuted. Atheists mocked my Christian beliefs and practices, and Christians have attacked me for even suggesting my lack of faith.

And who are the worse persecutors? I sincerely think that atheists are. They really go for the jugular!

Mocked isn't the same as persecuted.

We don't think much of Christianity but we don't attempt to do anything to Christians other than defend ourselves from their attempts to impose their ideas on us.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Atheists may mock religious people, but do they "go for the jugular"? Resort to physical violence? Over the centuries, Muslims and Christians have persecuted heretics and non-believers physically. Over 200,000 were killed in the  Albigensian Crusade. Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler. Even the U.S. treated Natives brutally, and more recently probably treated Iraqis and Afghans with less respect because they were non-Christians.

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot may have been "atheists" but it seems unfair to blame their excesses on "atheism."

Based on what I know about Stalin, he was influenced by Christianity and the Bible to violently persecute all his perceived enemies, and that includes Christianity. So yes--absolutely some atheists will resort to physical violence to persecute the religious.

Anyway, your denial that atheist dictators' violence should not be blamed on atheism reminds me of the "no true Christian" fallacy often committed by Christians. For them, Christians never do evil because they are assumed to be unable to do evil. Any supposed Christians who do evil therefore are not true Christians.

But they didn't go after their enemies because of atheism. Just because someone is an X doesn't mean everything they do is due to X.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If by successful you mean killed more then certainty Stalin was more successful.
Paraphrasing 1 Sam 18:7 "Stalin has killed his millions and Trump has killed ????"

I'd say Trump has probably killed a million. However, I don't consider them deaths due to Christianity. I do, however, consider them deaths due to Republicanism.

 

[bilby]

Atheists may mock religious people, but do they "go for the jugular"? Resort to physical violence? Over the centuries, Muslims and Christians have persecuted heretics and non-believers physically. Over 200,000 were killed in the  Albigensian Crusade. Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler. Even the U.S. treated Natives brutally, and more recently probably treated Iraqis and Afghans with less respect because they were non-Christians.

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot may have been "atheists" but it seems unfair to blame their excesses on "atheism."

Based on what I know about Stalin, he was influenced by Christianity and the Bible to violently persecute all his perceived enemies, and that includes Christianity. So yes--absolutely some atheists will resort to physical violence to persecute the religious.

Anyway, your denial that atheist dictators' violence should not be blamed on atheism reminds me of the "no true Christian" fallacy often committed by Christians. For them, Christians never do evil because they are assumed to be unable to do evil. Any supposed Christians who do evil therefore are not true Christians.

But they didn't go after their enemies because of atheism. Just because someone is an X doesn't mean everything they do is due to X.

Unless they're vegetarians. Hitler was a vegetarian, so clearly vegetarianism leads directly to genocide.

 

[Worldtraveller]

US, you consider atheists worse. What is your metric. Show your work.

Show 1) how they are worse; and 2) how that is because they are atheist.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Unless they're vegetarians. Hitler was a vegetarian, so clearly vegetarianism leads directly to genocide.

I'm vegetarian AND atheist. You don't want to know what goes on in my basement. Mwah - hah - hah - HAH. No. Really.