Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[bilby]

In most cases the answer would be "die".

Horseshit.

Very few people kill cops, ever. It's too obviously stupid even for most really stupid people to do it.

In a tiny, tiny number of cases, the answer might be "die"; That's why we pay cops the big bucks. If you don't want to risk your own life to save the lives of others, don't get a job that puts red and blue flashing lights on your vehicle.

 

[bilby]

The vast majority of shootings are entirely justified.

Horseshit. Capital punishment struggles for justification even when it comes at the end of a drawn out legal process designed to ensure that it is justified.

Summary executions on suspicion are not justified. Killing someone is almost always massively disproportionate, as a response to pretty much anything.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are mistaken. Shooting unarmed civilians is a real issue. It is truly telling that you disagree.

People armed with replica firearms should be considered armed.
Try robbing a place with a replica gun. You will be charged with armed robbery.
For example, the law in Georgia reads:

2020 Georgia Code
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 8 - Offenses Involving Theft
Article 2 - Robbery
§ 16-8-41. Armed Robbery; Robbery by Intimidation; Taking Controlled Substance From Pharmacy in Course of Committing Offense
a. A person commits the offense of armed robbery when, with intent to commit theft, he or she takes property of another from the person or the immediate presence of another by use of an offensive weapon, or any replica, article, or device having the appearance of such weapon. The offense of robbery by intimidation shall be a lesser included offense in the offense of armed robbery.

Yup, as with selling fake drugs will be prosecuted as if they were real.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I know that you want to ban use of guns for self and home defense, but there are many cases of guns used for that purpose in the real world.

I’m not for an all out ban but it seems pro-gun types are against even reasonable gun regulation. One can still have guns for self and home defense while implementing gun control policies that can make us all safer.

It’s always presented as an all or nothing argument.

The thing is it's far easier to disarm the law abiding than to disarm the criminals. Realistically, there's little middle ground. Most calls for "reasonable" gun regulation are either useless or not actually about "reasonable".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are mistaken. Shooting unarmed civilians is a real issue. It is truly telling that you disagree.

People armed with replica firearms should be considered armed.

They are literally unarmed. But granting that widely accepted view as valid, possession of a replica by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

You thinking that doesn't make it so.

Self defense is always based on what a reasonable person would do in the situation. Looks real, it's treated as real. There isn't time to play Monday morning quarterback, decisions must be made in seconds, usually very few seconds.

And consider what tends to happen when the anti-police types are put into simulated use-of-force situations: they perform worse than the cops.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. I was disgusted that so many posters seemed to ignore that the huge number of police who have been sexually abusing children and very young women didn't seem important enough to discuss.

that’s not really the takeaway I get from this thread. I’m sure everyone here is appalled by this behavior, which is probably more insidious than shootings. But, so much focus has been on shootings and so much defense of shootings by members here that those have dominated the conversation.

Not only that, but I keep getting attacked for saying the attention should be on this sort of thing (which in most cases isn't questionable, simply outright wrong) rather than the shootings (which are dramatic but almost always correct and even when they aren't it's normally due to a confusing situation.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I agree. The police should not only not have relative impunity, but should be held to a higher standard, and be punished more severely than other civillians, if they fail to meet that standard.

And that should apply to any offences, from homicide, through sexual or violent assaults, down to littering and parking offences.

Yup. I'd like to see under color of authority be a significant aggravating factor on all offenses. Say, double the punishment.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The vast majority of shootings are entirely justified.

Relevance? I guess you're the type who would finish their meal and leave a tip even after finding a rats tail in it, just because a vast amount of dishes at the restaurant were well-prepared.

BLM keeps objecting to situations that are justified. They have cried wolf far too often.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In most cases the answer would be "die".

Horseshit.

Very few people kill cops, ever. It's too obviously stupid even for most really stupid people to do it.

In a tiny, tiny number of cases, the answer might be "die"; That's why we pay cops the big bucks. If you don't want to risk your own life to save the lives of others, don't get a job that puts red and blue flashing lights on your vehicle.

And in only a tiny number of cases do police shoot in the first place.

Most of the time when police shoot it's either outright suicide by cop or an I'm not going to jail attitude where they'll take a low probability of success over a certain bad outcome. A dead cop isn't the objective but is likely to happen if the cop doesn't honor the threat.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The vast majority of shootings are entirely justified.

Horseshit. Capital punishment struggles for justification even when it comes at the end of a drawn out legal process designed to ensure that it is justified.

Summary executions on suspicion are not justified. Killing someone is almost always massively disproportionate, as a response to pretty much anything.

And herein you show you do not understand the situation.

Self defense has nothing to do with capital punishment.

 

[southernhybrid]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. I was disgusted that so many posters seemed to ignore that the huge number of police who have been sexually abusing children and very young women didn't seem important enough to discuss.

that’s not really the takeaway I get from this thread. I’m sure everyone here is appalled by this behavior, which is probably more insidious than shootings. But, so much focus has been on shootings and so much defense of shootings by members here that those have dominated the conversation.

Not only that, but I keep getting attacked for saying the attention should be on this sort of thing (which in most cases isn't questionable, simply outright wrong) rather than the shootings (which are dramatic but almost always correct and even when they aren't it's normally due to a confusing situation.)

My point was that people seemed to be overly concerned about the shootings while ignoring the other things the police do, based on the content of the posts. The shootings are awful, imo, but I think a large part of the problem is that we have so many guns in this country, which sadly sometimes causes police to overreact and shoot before trying to reason with the person. They certainly need a lot more training as many of the victims of police shootings are having a mental health crisis. With the right training, most of these people can be talked down, if one has patience and remains calm. Police should also wear protective gear when they are called into a potentially violent situations.

I think we have a shortage of both well trained, educated police and EMTs these days and I can understand why. We live in a country that has far more guns than people so there is always the fear that a cop will be shot. I'm not condoning that behavior, but I find it even worse, when a cop plans to groom and sexually assault a child or teen, knowing they will likely get away with it. Shootings are an over reaction to a situation, while sexual assaults are carefully planned. That's really all I have to say.

 

[laughing dog]

You are mistaken. Shooting unarmed civilians is a real issue. It is truly telling that you disagree.

People armed with replica firearms should be considered armed.

They are literally unarmed. But granting that widely accepted view as valid, possession of a replica by itself should not be an accepted excuse for any police officer to open fire.

You thinking that doesn't make it so.

Of course not, which is why I used the word "should" as in "ought to".

Self defense is always based on what a reasonable person would do in the situation. Looks real, it's treated as real. There isn't time to play Monday morning quarterback, decisions must be made in seconds, usually very few seconds.

You do realize that the criminal justice system is a Monday morning quarterback system. Hmmm.

And consider what tends to happen when the anti-police types are put into simulated use-of-force situations: they perform worse than the cops.

Is there a point there? After all, police officers are supposed to be more experienced and trained to handle such situations.

 

[Gospel]

The vast majority of shootings are entirely justified.

Relevance? I guess you're the type who would finish their meal and leave a tip even after finding a rats tail in it, just because a vast amount of dishes at the restaurant were well-prepared.

BLM keeps objecting to situations that are justified. They have cried wolf far too often.

Aint no body from BLM on this thread. Are you suggesting that because BLM raised concerns over what you consider to be nothing, we should overlook instances of police misconduct, such as the case where officers shot through a window and killed the individual they were sent to perform a wellness check on?

 

[Gospel]

Or the incident where a man in a wheelchair was shot to death by an officer, instead of being tasered, because apparently, he was John Wick leading police on a high-speed pursuit from his wheelchair? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Gospel]

Oh oh and the incident where a therapist helping a patient was shot while lying flat on his back with his hands up because, oops, the cops missed their actual target (the patient?).

 

[Gospel]

Does BLM making noise give an officer a pass for almost killing a person over something as trivial as an acorn falling from a tree?

 

[Gospel]

Self defense is always based on what a reasonable person would do in the situation. Looks real, it's treated as real. There isn't time to play Monday morning quarterback, decisions must be made in seconds, usually very few seconds.

How about a decision that resulted in a fatality and took 466 seconds to make? You know, one out of a vast majority of incidents BLM cried wolf over.

 

[Derec]

In a tiny, tiny number of cases, the answer might be "die"; That's why we pay cops the big bucks. If you don't want to risk your own life to save the lives of others, don't get a job that puts red and blue flashing lights on your vehicle.

Cops take on reasonable risks. They should not take unreasonable risks, by for example not being allowed to use deadly force against those attacking them. Or having to assume a person pointing a gun at them is really holding a realistic replica.

 

[Derec]

Does BLM making noise give an officer a pass for almost killing a person over something as trivial as an acorn falling from a tree?

Or murdering an innocent women and only serving three years.
Former Minneapolis Police officer Mohamed Noor released from custody after over 3 years behind bars
This case did not result in much outrage. I wonder why ...

 

[Derec]

Aint no body from BLM on this thread.

There are many who support and sympathize with that toxic movement.

Are you suggesting that because BLM raised concerns over what you consider to be nothing, we should overlook instances of police misconduct, such as the case where officers shot through a window and killed the individual they were sent to perform a wellness check on?

No. Police misconduct should be investigated, and if appropriate charged. But #BLM gets outraged over justified police shootings as well - Michael Brown for example.
And people on here have justified #BLM tactics like blocking highways, bridges and rail stations, and have downplayed even instances of arson and looting as mere "property damage".