Police Shooting and Body Cameras

[Trausti]

Officer wearing body camera confronts suspect said to have welded gun at wedding. Suspect initially cooperates but then attempts to strike officer and runs. Officer sees suspect with gun, shoots. Gun recovered. http://ksn.com/2015/01/26/bodycam-shows-oklahoma-police-shooting/

Here's the full body cam footage. WARNING - GRAPHIC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VEjO-Wi0s#t=27

Now that we have an example of a body camera capturing a shooting from start to finish, does this change any viewpoints? This escalated quickly - but not by the officer. A gun was recovered.

 

[gmbteach]

Well it may help people realise that not all cops shoot for no reason.

 

[barbos]

I don't feel good about shooting a guy who was fleeing.
On the other hand he had a gun and was threatening to kill someone at the wedding party.
The guy is dead because he was stupid.

 

[NobleSavage]

Slightly off topic, but the cops around here have had cameras in their cars for a long time. My cop buddy told me that when then need to beat the shit out of someone they angle the cars so that the incident is not recorded.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't feel good about shooting a guy who was fleeing.
On the other hand he had a gun and was threatening to kill someone at the wedding party.
The guy is dead because he was stupid.

He wasn't shot for fleeing.

He was shot because he dropped his gun and in picking it up he was facing the officer and bringing the gun up. It turns out that was an accident but the officer had no way of knowing that.

I've seen the video in slow motion, you can clearly see he's facing the officer, gun in hand.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Now that we have an example of a body camera capturing a shooting from start to finish, does this change any viewpoints? This escalated quickly - but not by the officer. A gun was recovered.

I think something needs to be said here... most of the complaints about the recent shootings... involved people who were NOT armed with a gun. If someone has a gun, that raises a lot of complications. But for the most part the complaints have nearly been exclusively cases where unarmed people were shot and killed by Officers.

 

[laughing dog]

Now that we have an example of a body camera capturing a shooting from start to finish, does this change any viewpoints? This escalated quickly - but not by the officer. A gun was recovered.

I think something needs to be said here... most of the complaints about the recent shootings... involved people who were NOT armed with a gun. If someone has a gun, that raises a lot of complications. But for the most part the complaints have nearly been exclusively cases where unarmed people were shot and killed by Officers.

QFT

 

[prideandfall]

Well it may help people realise that not all cops shoot for no reason.

and not all priests face-rape kids, nor did every german slaughter jews, nor does every car individually cause climate change, nor does every unvaccinated child cause a measles outbreak.

the suggestion of an idea that one cop in one situation that is arguably justifiable somehow negates cops in other situations which are not justifiable seems a bit weird to me.

 

[Shadowy Man]

the suggestion of an idea that one cop in one situation that is arguably justifiable somehow negates cops in other situations which are not justifiable seems a bit weird to me.

The real question is: are the good cops doing enough to speak out against the bad cops?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

the suggestion of an idea that one cop in one situation that is arguably justifiable somehow negates cops in other situations which are not justifiable seems a bit weird to me.

The real question is: are the good cops doing enough to speak out against the bad cops?

Well, ya. Of course they are. Just look at all the charges being brought against fellow police officers for assault, murder, abuse of power, etc. I'm sure that's happened at least once and therefore they've more than demonstrated that they're able to police themselves and nobody else needs to worry.

 

[Nexus]

I used to think all cops were guilty 100% of the time. This thread has shattered my world view and now I must pick up the pieces.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Now that we have an example of a body camera capturing a shooting from start to finish, does this change any viewpoints? This escalated quickly - but not by the officer. A gun was recovered.

I think something needs to be said here... most of the complaints about the recent shootings... involved people who were NOT armed with a gun. If someone has a gun, that raises a lot of complications. But for the most part the complaints have nearly been exclusively cases where unarmed people were shot and killed by Officers.

The one under discussion involved a gun although the guy didn't get his hands on his gun.

The case before it involved an attempt to grab an officer's gun.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Something to keep in mind for those playing Monday morning quarterback:

Look at that video, see how fast the situation changed. He was chasing a suspect, at the time he didn't consider it a dangerous situation, his gun wasn't out. The guy drops his gun, turns around for it and suddenly it's a life-or-death situation. It turns out the guy was a monumental idiot who at least at that time wasn't gunning for the cop but the shoot/don't-shoot decision had to be made before the cop saw what he was doing with the gun beyond simply looking at the officer.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think something needs to be said here... most of the complaints about the recent shootings... involved people who were NOT armed with a gun. If someone has a gun, that raises a lot of complications. But for the most part the complaints have nearly been exclusively cases where unarmed people were shot and killed by Officers.

The one under discussion involved a gun although the guy didn't get his hands on his gun.

You don't say.

The case before it involved an attempt to grab an officer's gun.

Was that the case in Texas, Cleveland?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

the suggestion of an idea that one cop in one situation that is arguably justifiable somehow negates cops in other situations which are not justifiable seems a bit weird to me.

The real question is: are the good cops doing enough to speak out against the bad cops?

No.

 

[bleubird]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/25/us/cleveland-police-verdict-up-to-speed/index.html

 

[Valjean]

It looked to me like the guy dropped his gun, recovered it and took off running again. The five shots that dropped him were all fired as he was running away from the officer.

 

[zorq]

It looked to me like the guy dropped his gun, recovered it and took off running again. The five shots that dropped him were all fired as he was running away from the officer.

I watched it too and I agree. All 5 of the shots fired were fired at the suspect's back. At no point did the suspect actually face the officer with a weapon in hand.

As a side note, my speculation is that the suspect was hiding his weapon in the waistband of his shorts. I think the weapon fell out of the waistband because the suspect was wearing his pants in a "sagging" style.

I also believe that shooting was a judgement call in this situation and I can't blame the officer for making that call. It is still a tragedy and murky because like I said, at no point IMO did the suspect actually threaten the officer.

I also disagree that we have never seen videos of police officer shootings from beginning to end before. The existance of video like this is nothing new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It looked to me like the guy dropped his gun, recovered it and took off running again. The five shots that dropped him were all fired as he was running away from the officer.

I watched it too and I agree. All 5 of the shots fired were fired at the suspect's back. At no point did the suspect actually face the officer with a weapon in hand.

As a side note, my speculation is that the suspect was hiding his weapon in the waistband of his shorts. I think the weapon fell out of the waistband because the suspect was wearing his pants in a "sagging" style.

I also believe that shooting was a judgement call in this situation and I can't blame the officer for making that call. It is still a tragedy and murky because like I said, at no point IMO did the suspect actually threaten the officer.

I also disagree that we have never seen videos of police officer shootings from beginning to end before. The existance of video like this is nothing new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o

At the moment he picks up his gun he's facing in the officer's direction (remember, if you drop something while running it's going to end up behind you, you'll have to turn around to recover it) but looking down at the weapon he was recovering. At that point had he decided to shoot he almost certainly would have gotten off the first shot. As it happened he rose and turned rather than simply rising but the shoot decision was made before the cop could see he was turning.

 

[zorq]

I watched it too and I agree. All 5 of the shots fired were fired at the suspect's back. At no point did the suspect actually face the officer with a weapon in hand.

As a side note, my speculation is that the suspect was hiding his weapon in the waistband of his shorts. I think the weapon fell out of the waistband because the suspect was wearing his pants in a "sagging" style.

I also believe that shooting was a judgement call in this situation and I can't blame the officer for making that call. It is still a tragedy and murky because like I said, at no point IMO did the suspect actually threaten the officer.

I also disagree that we have never seen videos of police officer shootings from beginning to end before. The existance of video like this is nothing new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o

At the moment he picks up his gun he's facing in the officer's direction (remember, if you drop something while running it's going to end up behind you, you'll have to turn around to recover it) but looking down at the weapon he was recovering. At that point had he decided to shoot he almost certainly would have gotten off the first shot. As it happened he rose and turned rather than simply rising but the shoot decision was made before the cop could see he was turning.

We don't know when the "shoot decision" was made. For all we knew the officer could have decided to shoot way before the suspect dropped his weapon. We aren't mind readers.

I agree that the "grab turn and run" action the suspect performed could easily have been a "grab aim and shoot" motion instead. And I agree that the two actions would have taken roughly the same amount of time which is why I described the situation as a "judgement call" for the officer whether to shoot or not shoot.

I still contend that the suspect never actually threatened the officer in the video and all 5 shots were fired at the suspect's back.