Port strike and automation

[Shadowy Man]

JaBiden is Brandon. I hope that clears things up.

Not quite, but both are jokes.
SNL Cold Open

Jokes referring to the same person, yes?

 

[Derec]

Strange how Derek never complains about the greed of the CEO class whose income would make the income of the dock workers look like a pittance.

1. There are a lot fewer CEOs of port companies than there are dockworkers.
2. CEOs don't shut down the economy to extort higher pay.
3. CEOs do not fight to make their companies less efficient and technologically decades behind companies in the rest of the world.

That said, CEO compensation is often exorbitant too, but that has nothing to do with this thread. So why the whataboutism?

 

[Derec]

Jokes referring to the same person, yes?

How dare people joke about the president of the United States!
Don't people know that this is only "woke" when cracking jokes about Republican presidents?
Won't somebody please think of the children!

 

[Shadowy Man]

Jokes referring to the same person, yes?

How dare people joke about the president of the United States!
Don't people know that this is only "woke" when cracking jokes about Republican presidents?
Won't somebody please think of the children!

Is that supposed to be a response to my question? Bizarre…

Did I ever say one couldn’t joke about Biden? I know I did say that calling him “Brandon” was nowhere as funny or clever as all the nicknames for Trump I’ve heard. But I don’t care who makes little nicknames for whom, it’s still just juvenile irrelevancy.

 

[Politesse]

The strike has been quietly resolved. It was a mistake for the USMX to try and play hardball without recruiting meaningful political support first. The White House had no reason to listen to a word they said, and they no doubt have decades of dirt on everyone involved. The ports are home to more dirty business than legit.

Port strike ends as workers agree to tentative deal on wages and contract extension​

Biden administration Acting Labor Secretary Julie Su was an important administration liaison working with both the union and port ownership group to reach a deal at meetings held in New Jersey on Thursday, according to a source familiar with the talks.

“The collective bargaining process really worked,” said Su in an interview on CNBC’s “Squawk on the Street” on Friday morning. “We’ve been saying it all along. When workers have a real voice at the table and when they can help to determine the conditions of their jobs, we’re seeing really historic gains for working people, and we’re also seeing it because we have such a strong economy. ... Companies that are making record profits are realizing that when they do right by their workers, it’s better not just for working people, it’s better for their industries, it’s better for their future.”

 

[Derec]

The strike has been quietly resolved. It was a mistake for the USMX to try and play hardball without recruiting meaningful political support first.

That was never going to happen. Biden/Harris/Walz is firmly on the side of Big Labor, even when they have completely unreasonable demands.

 

[Politesse]

I meant in reality. But yes, they were probably doomed to lose this fight. The government has every reason to want the ports to be open, and the workers have every right to demand payment for their work.

 

[Derec]

I meant in reality. But yes, they were probably doomed to lose this fight. The government has every reason to want the ports to be open,

Which is why Biden should have invoked Taft-Hartley.

and the workers have every right to demand payment for their work.

Nobody is saying they should not get paid. But they are already very well paid. They want ridiculous amount more (70% pay increase) and no automation in ports, and are using extortion, monopoly power of their union, and an unreasonably friendly White House to get their way.

 

[robnisch]

I see the labor movement like the civil right movement. After centuries of abuse, labor used the only tool they had. Organize.
Now, they may have abused that power at times but in the end things are better.

 

[laughing dog]

Nitpicking - there are two parties to the negotiations.

It's not nitpicking. Monopolistic power of big labor is an important factor in their ability to extort exorbitant pay and ban on automation.

I was being polite - it is actually ignorant. The ILA has locals - does that mean it is not "big labor". There are simply two parties negotiating to set wages, benefits and working conditions. If the ILA is a monopoly then the UMEX is a monopsony.

You offered no relevant background.

Yes, I did. So did TV&CC.

How ports operate in Europe have nothing to do with the port operations in the USA.

When the issue is that the Union is making US ports be less efficient through lack of automation, comparison with other major ports in Europe and Asia is very much relevant.

Why? It is not as if US ports compete for the business in the Europe or Asia.

Post #3 contains no relevant background as to the profitability or the issues and positions in negotiations.

As always, reading comprehension fail.

Yes, the port operators wish to introduce labor saving devices and methods. And the union is against that. Which is one of the reasons there are negotiations.

But they are unbalanced negotiations because of the monopoly power of the Union.

Wrong.

I have no idea who the fuck JaBiden is.

It's just how Maya Rudolph's Kamala Harris pronounces his name. It's a joke.

President Biden is letting the two parties try to work things out. at this point. Refusing to get in the middle is the opposite of support.

Kamala Harris' statements were anything but neutral on the matter.
Harris hails striking dockworkers, swipes at Trump’s record

Ms. Harris doesn't have to be neutral - she is a politician. Your claim about President Biden was factually incorrect.

 

[laughing dog]

The horror, the absolute horror that someone wants MORE!!!! Really, what's is the world coming to? How the fuck dare anyone in the USA to want or expect more?

Wanting more and using monopolistic power to extort more by shutting down ports are very different things.

They are. Using monopolistic power against monopsonistic power is also a very different thing. As is eating ice cream or walking dogs are very different things. Did you have a point?

Anyway, those greedy dockworkers have settled (at least until Jan. 15). So the US economy is safe for now from those ungrateful rapacious workers.

And they got 60% more money on top of already exorbitant compensation.
And US ports are still decades behind the rest of the world.

Good for them. For someone who appears to be a supporter of capitalism, you sure throw around leftist rhetoric like "exorbitant compensation".

So what if US ports are still decades behind the world. Goods shipped from the US and to the US have to go through US ports, regardless of your view of their relative efficiency.

 

[BH]

Why should the dockworkers or any worker in any field think that they should be made worse off by others pursuing the name of efficiency to better that someone else? What is wrong with the docker worker or any potential worker looking out for what's best for themselves?

 

[Politesse]

I meant in reality. But yes, they were probably doomed to lose this fight. The government has every reason to want the ports to be open,

Which is why Biden should have invoked Taft-Hartley.

and the workers have every right to demand payment for their work.

Nobody is saying they should not get paid. But they are already very well paid. They want ridiculous amount more (70% pay increase) and no automation in ports, and are using extortion, monopoly power of their union, and an unreasonably friendly White House to get their way.

So one should only make reasonable demands, you would argue? You would be a terrible labor organizer. Or CEO, for that matter. Read the "Art of the Deal" sometime, you might learn something useful. Or the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.

 

[southernhybrid]

Considering the cost of living in New Jersey and the New York metro area, these works deserve huge salaries, plus the entry level workers aren't going to get nearly as much as those who have been working for many years. Why would anyone begrudge someone who works in a difficult job a good salary is beyond me.

It's good it's at least over for now, so people will stop hoarding toilet paper, despite the fact that most of the toilet paper Americans buy is made in the USA. Yet, the shelves are bare from what I hear when it comes to paper that wipes the ass. We could use grass but that would leave us with one big shitty mass. Am I being too crass?

What does a dock worker do?

What does a Dock Worker do?​

Dockworkers load and unload cargo and prepare docks for incoming ships. They moor and unmoor ships upon their arrival and departure and maintain accurate records of damaged or misplaced cargo. They follow loading and unloading plans and participate in all company training programs. They install gangways to receive incoming ships and ensure the ship’s spill containment boom is in proper working order. They safely load and unload cargo using suitable material handling equipment, including forklifts, hand trucks, pallet jacks, cranes, and grain trimmers.

Dockworkers inspect unloaded cargo for damages or irregularities and track the unloaded shipment by inputting information using spreadsheets and documents required by management. They communicate with colleagues to ensure the safe loading and unloading of cargo continues and ensure the dock areas are clean and free of debris to prevent accidents or injury. Dockworkers need a high-school diploma or equivalency including the GED and a valid forklift license as well as an ability to operate heavy machinery.

What responsibilities are common for Dock Worker jobs?

• Oversee and be responsible for all paperwork associated with the dock to ensure it is handled timely and correctly by employees.
• Prepare receipts to help separate freight by SKU #.
• Determine work procedures, prepare work schedules, and expedite workflow.
• Provide training for dock personnel and close monitoring of safety procedures and policies.
• Help manage the inbound/outbound dock operation.
• Ensure that boaters observe all marina rules and regulations.
• Organize and maintain file systems, file correspondence and other records.
• Operate a forklift or order selector to transport parts in and about warehouse.
• Communicate and monitor workflow in support of manage loading/unloading of freight

What are the typical qualifications for Dock Worker jobs?

• Associate's Degree or higher in computer science or engineering.
• Knowledgeable about loading procedures, including drop and hook routines.
• Able to work in hazardous and physically challenging conditions.
• Demonstrated strong time management, leadership, and problem solving skills.
• Proficient with Microsoft Office Suite.

Sounds like a pretty hard, complicated job to me.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I meant in reality. But yes, they were probably doomed to lose this fight. The government has every reason to want the ports to be open,

Which is why Biden should have invoked Taft-Hartley.

and the workers have every right to demand payment for their work.

Nobody is saying they should not get paid. But they are already very well paid. They want ridiculous amount more (70% pay increase) and no automation in ports, and are using extortion, monopoly power of their union, and an unreasonably friendly White House to get their way.

First time I've heard collective bargaining referenced to as extortion.

I'm old fashioned, but I go by a simple rule that if a strike opens and the business immediately throws out a pay increase 50%, maybe there is more to this than the workers are "greedy". Greed is often viewed as a one-way street.

 

[ZiprHead]

Strange how Derek never complains about the greed of the CEO class whose income would make the income of the dock workers look like a pittance.

1. There are a lot fewer CEOs of port companies than there are dockworkers.

And... ?

2. CEOs don't shut down the economy to extort higher pay.

The importance of those people to the nation's economy should be reflected in their pay. Don't you think?

3. CEOs do not fight to make their companies less efficient and technologically decades behind companies in the rest of the world.

That said, CEO compensation is often exorbitant too, but that has nothing to do with this thread. So why the whataboutism?

Why not? The entire management team could go on vacation for a week and no one would notice. The dock workers strike for a couple days and all hell ensues. It's easy to identify who is more important and therefore more valuable to the nation's economy.

 

[scombrid]

I’m in Fort Lauderdale for a conference. Really puts complaints about “exorbitant” worker pay in perspective seeing the stacks of super yachts in the marinas and showrooms full of exotic cars. Then you drive a few blocks west of US1…

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Labor negotiations are just that - both sides make demands and concessions until there is an agreement. A strike is a last ditch effort by a union to get management to make more concessions. Without knowing the full context of the work environment, the profitability of the concern, and the actual back and forth of negotiations, I think picking a side in the dark is simply reflecting an ideological bias.

1) Look at the article. The union is severely hampering automation and making US ports inefficient.

This is relevant to the stalled negotiations because..,,,

2) Big unions always harm their employers. That's why there are few left--they've generally destroyed their employers. Only the ones where that can't realistically happen still exist.

Ideological claptrap.

I note no attempt to rebut it.

Unions basically exist only where there is minimal if any ability to have non-union competition.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I meant in reality. But yes, they were probably doomed to lose this fight. The government has every reason to want the ports to be open,

Which is why Biden should have invoked Taft-Hartley.

and the workers have every right to demand payment for their work.

Nobody is saying they should not get paid. But they are already very well paid. They want ridiculous amount more (70% pay increase) and no automation in ports, and are using extortion, monopoly power of their union, and an unreasonably friendly White House to get their way.

First time I've heard collective bargaining referenced to as extortion.

Then fix your ears. It most certainly is extortion.

I'm old fashioned, but I go by a simple rule that if a strike opens and the business immediately throws out a pay increase 50%, maybe there is more to this than the workers are "greedy". Greed is often viewed as a one-way street.

Or the companies knew they weren't going to get any help and caving to the union was their best option. A cost which hits your competition equally to hitting you doesn't do much harm to your business, it just causes the price of the goods to go up. We are the ones that pay, not the companies.

 

[laughing dog]

Labor negotiations are just that - both sides make demands and concessions until there is an agreement. A strike is a last ditch effort by a union to get management to make more concessions. Without knowing the full context of the work environment, the profitability of the concern, and the actual back and forth of negotiations, I think picking a side in the dark is simply reflecting an ideological bias.

1) Look at the article. The union is severely hampering automation and making US ports inefficient.

This is relevant to the stalled negotiations because..,,,

I note no attempt to respond.

2) Big unions always harm their employers. That's why there are few left--they've generally destroyed their employers. Only the ones where that can't realistically happen still exist.

Ideological claptrap.

I note no attempt to rebut it.

I note you offered no evidence to support your opinion.

Unions basically exist only where there is minimal if any ability to have non-union competition.

So?