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Post-poll Brexit poll

Will Britain actually leave the EU

  • Yes, they're gone

    Votes: 18 54.5%
  • No, they'll stay

    Votes: 8 24.2%
  • It depends (explain)

    Votes: 3 9.1%
  • Magical scones

    Votes: 4 12.1%

  • Total voters
    33
Apparenttly, some remainers also had a change of heart so that overall the majority for Brexit would only be reduced by something like half a million votes, not enough to change the result.

Add to that some of the 28% who didn't vote, and the result might well be overturned in a hypothetical second referendum. I'm sure many of them wouldn't be quite so complacent in that case, having already seen the effects of Thursday's vote.

It would be very Monty Python to count a no vote as a yes vote.

I have no idea what you mean by that, or how it refers to anything in my post.

We can't really speculate on what those who did not vote would have voted for. I am pleasantly surprised at the leave vote. Holland next? :)
Or Scotland.

Anyway, the argument that you can get cheap dairy products from NZ while maintaining trade with EU as if nothing happened is a fallacy. If UK had access to internal EU markets and cheap cheese from New Zealand, then what's to stop from said cheese being re-exported to EU? There is no deal that UK can make that would let them both have their cake and eat it.
 
Apparenttly, some remainers also had a change of heart so that overall the majority for Brexit would only be reduced by something like half a million votes, not enough to change the result.

Add to that some of the 28% who didn't vote, and the result might well be overturned in a hypothetical second referendum. I'm sure many of them wouldn't be quite so complacent in that case, having already seen the effects of Thursday's vote.

It would be very Monty Python to count a no vote as a yes vote.

I have no idea what you mean by that, or how it refers to anything in my post.

We can't really speculate on what those who did not vote would have voted for. I am pleasantly surprised at the leave vote. Holland next? :)
Or Scotland.

Anyway, the argument that you can get cheap dairy products from NZ while maintaining trade with EU as if nothing happened is a fallacy. If UK had access to internal EU markets and cheap cheese from New Zealand, then what's to stop from said cheese being re-exported to EU? There is no deal that UK can make that would let them both have their cake and eat it.

Britain and the EU would still go on. As for cheap NZ dairy products, EU tariffs applicable for NZ goods would be added if re exported from the UK or shipped direct to the EU from NZ.
 
Apparenttly, some remainers also had a change of heart so that overall the majority for Brexit would only be reduced by something like half a million votes, not enough to change the result.

Add to that some of the 28% who didn't vote, and the result might well be overturned in a hypothetical second referendum. I'm sure many of them wouldn't be quite so complacent in that case, having already seen the effects of Thursday's vote.

It would be very Monty Python to count a no vote as a yes vote.

I have no idea what you mean by that, or how it refers to anything in my post.

We can't really speculate on what those who did not vote would have voted for. I am pleasantly surprised at the leave vote. Holland next? :)

Actually, we can. In fact, speculating is about all we can do, at the moment. Personally, I'm disgusted by the leave vote. The leaders of the leave campaign, probably expecting to lose but desiring to register some sort of protest by running it close, have no clue as to what to do now, although they seem to want to have it both ways by staying in the Single Market whille observing none of its rules. There's a political vacuum left by Cameron's resignation that won't be filled until at least September, leading to all sorts of economic uncertainty. The working-class voters who voted leave were, in large part, conned into it by promises the political class has no intention of keeping, and will be shafted by it even more than they were inside the EU. Racist incidents - fortunately, mostly non-violent, for now - have increased greatly since the result was announced, with people who've been in the country many years or, in some instances, all their lives, being told to "go home" or simply "leave".

There's fuck all either surprising or pleasant about it. Hopefully, the Netherlands has more sense than to cut its own throat like that.
 
Apparenttly, some remainers also had a change of heart so that overall the majority for Brexit would only be reduced by something like half a million votes, not enough to change the result.

Add to that some of the 28% who didn't vote, and the result might well be overturned in a hypothetical second referendum. I'm sure many of them wouldn't be quite so complacent in that case, having already seen the effects of Thursday's vote.

It would be very Monty Python to count a no vote as a yes vote.

I have no idea what you mean by that, or how it refers to anything in my post.

We can't really speculate on what those who did not vote would have voted for. I am pleasantly surprised at the leave vote. Holland next? :)

Actually, we can. In fact, speculating is about all we can do, at the moment. Personally, I'm disgusted by the leave vote. The leaders of the leave campaign, probably expecting to lose but desiring to register some sort of protest by running it close, have no clue as to what to do now, although they seem to want to have it both ways by staying in the Single Market whille observing none of its rules. There's a political vacuum left by Cameron's resignation that won't be filled until at least September, leading to all sorts of economic uncertainty. The working-class voters who voted leave were, in large part, conned into it by promises the political class has no intention of keeping, and will be shafted by it even more than they were inside the EU. Racist incidents - fortunately, mostly non-violent, for now - have increased greatly since the result was announced, with people who've been in the country many years or, in some instances, all their lives, being told to "go home" or simply "leave".

There's fuck all either surprising or pleasant about it. Hopefully, the Netherlands has more sense than to cut its own throat like that.

We can speculate of course. The Leaders of the Leave campaign had thought out their plans.. At the last moment Nigel Farage for instance thought the LEAVE campaign would lose, as I also thought. The UK does not wish to stay in a single market but will trade internationally including with Europe.
In cases of the premier resigning, the deputy leader can take over. One may argue that there was already a power vacuum when the conservatives were elected.
There will be uncertainties on the fine details but there were a lot of uncertainties as the UK was entering the common market. It’s not certain what is meant by promises the political class had no intention of keeping, especially when we have not reached the point where the promises could either be applied or otherwise.

Britain has problems with racial incidents regardless and of whether a referendum vote took place. A British citizen, no matter what ethnicity is still entitled to full rights under the law.

However, whoever is elected at the next general election, must protect the British workforce. As I have suggested, a pay scale for non-British workers must be at least the same as for British workers and that they come with a work visa which is based on a contract. (It worked to a great degree in Hong Kong).
Because immigrants were being driven into Europe by the EU unelected committees, many found their way in trucks and through the Chunnel. Some have found a way of sharing someone’s NHI and doctoring the card with their own photo when photo copying the details. Others work cash in hand for peanuts for sweatshops (introduced from abroad). More unfortunate ones live on the streets. Some who want to return have problems because they threw away their IDs. Those from India will wait several months to get anything back from their government back home.

Legal immigration to the levels of the 1970s or according to unfilled vacancies would work better.
Broken promises? The two main parties have been doing that anyway and not doubt some BREXIT promises may be discarded, to the advantage of the UKIP. At least Boris (the Clown) Johnson can provide some entertainment. However some benefits towards the NHS (a few million pounds a day) and towards pensions would be ideal to spend the savings on.
 
on the Sam Seder youtube channel there is a streaming an excellent guest, Mark Blyth, about the Brexit. It will be posted, I assume, in a little bit.

This is a must hear interview. He is very good and balanced.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SamSeder

I think he is Scot and just said he left Great Britain because of Margaret Thatcher, lol.
 
So will the UK actually leave the EU, or will the British government and/or the British people manage to ignore the result of the referendum?

This Brexit thing has created quite a stir. I think ultimately they will exit the EU although it may be that the EU will tell them to leave ASAP. There could be a lot more twists and turns left.
 
So will the UK actually leave the EU, or will the British government and/or the British people manage to ignore the result of the referendum?

This Brexit thing has created quite a stir. I think ultimately they will exit the EU although it may be that the EU will tell them to leave ASAP. There could be a lot more twists and turns left.

21 million euros a day net (after rebate and subsidies) to the EU only pays for a the equivalent of a comfort blanket.
 
We can speculate of course. The Leaders of the Leave campaign had thought out their plans..
No they hadn't. They really hadn't and now, 5 days later, they still haven't. Their reactions to the vote have been vahue and befuddled, with none of them willing to give any concrete plans for a future outside the EU.
At the last moment Nigel Farage for instance thought the LEAVE campaign would lose, as I also thought.
Right, and that's why he had no plans for the possibility of winning. Which goes against your claim above that Leave had "thought out their plans". At best, their plan was to leave the details to the current government, but Cameron scuppered that idea by resigning.
The UK does not wish to stay in a single market but will trade internationally including with Europe.
Boris Johnson, Leave leader and potentially the next Prime Minister (the one who's going to have to deal with the mechanics of leaving the EU) wrote in his Telegraph column the other day that the UK would stay in the single market, but without being bound by its freedom of movement legislation or extending the same rights to EU citizens as he expected to be given to UK citizens in the E. The EU, of course, told him - more politely than I could have managed - that he "can't have his cake and eat it".
In cases of the premier resigning, the deputy leader can take over.
Wrong. If the PM resigns, there's an election within the rulig party to decide his successor. Until that election occurs, the PM is a lame duck. There is no automatic line of succession as in the US system.
One may argue that there was already a power vacuum when the conservatives were elected.
One may argue that the moon is made of green cheese, it still wouldn't make it true.
There will be uncertainties on the fine details but there were a lot of uncertainties as the UK was entering the common market.
There are huge uncertainties already, which is the cause of the economic turmoil that's already taken effect. And if businesses make good on their statements that they'll leave the UK to protect their dealings in the EU single market, there won't just be uncertainties in the UK economy, there'll be chaos.
It’s not certain what is meant by promises the political class had no intention of keeping, especially when we have not reached the point where the promises could either be applied or otherwise.
They;re backtracking already on promises that were made during the campaign.

Britain has problems with racial incidents regardless and of whether a referendum vote took place. A British citizen, no matter what ethnicity is still entitled to full rights under the law.
Hate crimes increased by 57% in just the 4 days after the vote. The result has made racists feel empowered, and they're starting a backlash already.
However, whoever is elected at the next general election, must protect the British workforce. As I have suggested, a pay scale for non-British workers must be at least the same as for British workers and that they come with a work visa which is based on a contract. (It worked to a great degree in Hong Kong).
In many areas, EU Employment Law is/was the best protection the British workforce has/had. Without its constraints, the Old Etonians who make up the English political class will be quite happy to roll back working conditions to Victorian days.
Because immigrants were being driven into Europe by the EU unelected committees, many found their way in trucks and through the Chunnel. Some have found a way of sharing someone’s NHI and doctoring the card with their own photo when photo copying the details. Others work cash in hand for peanuts for sweatshops (introduced from abroad). More unfortunate ones live on the streets. Some who want to return have problems because they threw away their IDs. Those from India will wait several months to get anything back from their government back home.
Daily Mail scare stories. Blame the powerless immigrant.

Legal immigration to the levels of the 1970s or according to unfilled vacancies would work better.
Pipe dream. 1970s levels would be nowhere near enough to replenish the workforce. And again, you assume that immigration is "the" problem. It's not. It's a scapegoat, one that the Leave campaign exploited to ther advantage.
Broken promises? The two main parties have been doing that anyway and not doubt some BREXIT promises may be discarded, to the advantage of the UKIP. At least Boris (the Clown) Johnson can provide some entertainment. However some benefits towards the NHS (a few million pounds a day) and towards pensions would be ideal to spend the savings on.
The NHS promise is one that has already been becktracked on by Johnson and Farage (who can promise what he wants, anyway, because he has no power or prospect of power). "Boris (the Clown) Johnson" is likely to be the next PM. Not a job which calls for an entertainer. As for pensions - forget it. They're already being squeezed by Austerity, and with what Brexit will do to the economy, they're more likely to plummet than rise.
 
Apparently a Vichy France postcard.

Cl--0p8WIAE4TJ_.jpg


The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
No they hadn't. They really hadn't and now, 5 days later, they still haven't. Their reactions to the vote have been vahue and befuddled, with none of them willing to give any concrete plans for a future outside the EU.
At the last moment Nigel Farage for instance thought the LEAVE campaign would lose, as I also thought.
Right, and that's why he had no plans for the possibility of winning. Which goes against your claim above that Leave had "thought out their plans". At best, their plan was to leave the details to the current government, but Cameron scuppered that idea by resigning.
The UK does not wish to stay in a single market but will trade internationally including with Europe.
Boris Johnson, Leave leader and potentially the next Prime Minister (the one who's going to have to deal with the mechanics of leaving the EU) wrote in his Telegraph column the other day that the UK would stay in the single market, but without being bound by its freedom of movement legislation or extending the same rights to EU citizens as he expected to be given to UK citizens in the E. The EU, of course, told him - more politely than I could have managed - that he "can't have his cake and eat it".
In cases of the premier resigning, the deputy leader can take over.
Wrong. If the PM resigns, there's an election within the rulig party to decide his successor. Until that election occurs, the PM is a lame duck. There is no automatic line of succession as in the US system.
One may argue that there was already a power vacuum when the conservatives were elected.
One may argue that the moon is made of green cheese, it still wouldn't make it true.
There will be uncertainties on the fine details but there were a lot of uncertainties as the UK was entering the common market.
There are huge uncertainties already, which is the cause of the economic turmoil that's already taken effect. And if businesses make good on their statements that they'll leave the UK to protect their dealings in the EU single market, there won't just be uncertainties in the UK economy, there'll be chaos.
It’s not certain what is meant by promises the political class had no intention of keeping, especially when we have not reached the point where the promises could either be applied or otherwise.
They;re backtracking already on promises that were made during the campaign.

Britain has problems with racial incidents regardless and of whether a referendum vote took place. A British citizen, no matter what ethnicity is still entitled to full rights under the law.
Hate crimes increased by 57% in just the 4 days after the vote. The result has made racists feel empowered, and they're starting a backlash already.
However, whoever is elected at the next general election, must protect the British workforce. As I have suggested, a pay scale for non-British workers must be at least the same as for British workers and that they come with a work visa which is based on a contract. (It worked to a great degree in Hong Kong).
In many areas, EU Employment Law is/was the best protection the British workforce has/had. Without its constraints, the Old Etonians who make up the English political class will be quite happy to roll back working conditions to Victorian days.
Because immigrants were being driven into Europe by the EU unelected committees, many found their way in trucks and through the Chunnel. Some have found a way of sharing someone’s NHI and doctoring the card with their own photo when photo copying the details. Others work cash in hand for peanuts for sweatshops (introduced from abroad). More unfortunate ones live on the streets. Some who want to return have problems because they threw away their IDs. Those from India will wait several months to get anything back from their government back home.
Daily Mail scare stories. Blame the powerless immigrant.

Legal immigration to the levels of the 1970s or according to unfilled vacancies would work better.
Pipe dream. 1970s levels would be nowhere near enough to replenish the workforce. And again, you assume that immigration is "the" problem. It's not. It's a scapegoat, one that the Leave campaign exploited to ther advantage.
Broken promises? The two main parties have been doing that anyway and not doubt some BREXIT promises may be discarded, to the advantage of the UKIP. At least Boris (the Clown) Johnson can provide some entertainment. However some benefits towards the NHS (a few million pounds a day) and towards pensions would be ideal to spend the savings on.
The NHS promise is one that has already been becktracked on by Johnson and Farage (who can promise what he wants, anyway, because he has no power or prospect of power). "Boris (the Clown) Johnson" is likely to be the next PM. Not a job which calls for an entertainer. As for pensions - forget it. They're already being squeezed by Austerity, and with what Brexit will do to the economy, they're more likely to plummet than rise.

The exact methodology can only be determined one the leave process takes place. None of the parties can predict the fine details.
Hate crimes in the aftermath of such an election is the conduct of those who commit them not the fact the UK decided to leave.

This is a process that would take at least a couple of years. It will take a few weeks to start. I believe both parties will ask for extensions on the same issues.
The UKIP did have plans, and the Conservatives (and labour) do have plans what to do but this will be decided as the exit procedure starts. What occurs depends on both parits.

Boris Johnson, he has to also consult with his party where some are against leaving. It’s not sure who will be the next PM.
The deputy leader will take over until a new leader is elected.

There was a power vacuum as the Conservatives were not gaining concessions in the EU (to try and offset the BREXIT campaign).
The Stock market has already rebounded 260 points but there will be rises and falls, as speculators make money based on panic and fear.

I’ve only seen one reference to a promise supposedly made by Farage about NHS spending but something he didn’t say

The hate crimes are attributable to those who commit them, not those who exercise their free vote.
The working conditions in the UK were already among the best in Europe. This includes safety and quality standards. The EU also has excellent working laws, but such rights are not protected by zero contracts. Those committing hate crimes have no representation in parliament and their parties only gain a handful of votes in any election.

I originally quoted the BBC not the daily mail regarding the ‘underground workforce.’

Faking an NHI with someone elses is well known.

The problem is noth the powerless (illegal) immigrant. Europe has simply opened its borders and many eventually flood into the UK illegally.

Those illegally in the UK are exploited. Many make it difficult by destroying their Ids and have problems returning home.

As I said legal immigration to the levels of the 1970s or according to unfilled vacancies…..
Flooding the country with univited migrants, including those who have no applicable skills is counterproductive.

All the parties have been talking about reducing migration into the UK; even those against leaving. The EU countries including Germany have also been looking at this problem they created.

You are referring to a promise which Farage didn’t even make regarding the NHS.

You are probarbly referring to a poster by the LEAVE CAMPAIGN (not UKIP affiliated) where the bus stated

The ad read:We have a £10 billion, £34 million a day featherbed, that is going to be free money that we can spend on the NHS, on schools, on whatever it is.
The Gross amount is actually £54 million a day less rebate = £34/5 per day then less subsidies received back for farmers leaves £21 million per day.
I didn’t even notice this as a major part of the campaign. Nonetheless since the difference is £10 million per day it is really grasping at straws. The media didn’t even get it right at first as to who said it.

The error was in the figures nor did it state all would be spent on the NHS. It said it was money that can be spent on the NHS, schools etc. In fact there will be something it can be spent on. (NHS, Schools or whatever it is that the money can be spent on).
 
Whether it is the U.S. or Britain, it appears these governments are firmly in the hands of monied interests who could care less what the electorate wants. Whether they get away with it or not...that is open to question. What appears to be lost in all this political jockeying is anything that resembles the common interest of the people. It makes me a bit sick seeing our people act in good faith only to be cheated by election officials, elected officials and corporations of all kinds (if they are big enough). In the U.S., we supposedly had a set of nominating caucuses and elections that were so shot through with corruption we ended up with not ONE buy TWO absolutely unacceptable candidates both easily on a par with Dubbiya in their own corrupt way. The people want gun control, medicare for all, free education, and security from things like hunger and homelessness. They have their choice between a corporatist money grubber...Hillary...and an outright fraud and racist...Trump, and are led to believe there is no other choice by deaf, dumb, and blind media. Will Britain exit? Ask the richest three or four people in Britain and they will tell you what they have decided.:wink:
 

Maybe the Tories will try to weasel a way out of leaving. Such an action could backfire. However the process takes at least 2 or so years.

They should the best way to start the leaving process, but along the way the buffoon-o-crats and the current government will most likely fumble and bungle along the way.

The only thing that Merkel herself has done rapidly is flood Europe with higher than tolerable migration.
 
Merkel and Hollande have just held a joint news conference. I speak both German and French and they basically said "don't let the door hit you on the way out."

The apparent present strategy of delaying things doesn't look like it's going to work....

They do have to be tough because they don't wanting this leaving business to become a thing. If they take a firm and hard line against England, it will discourage other members from wanting to get out based on a poor understanding of the consequences.
How do you know people did not understand the consequences?

If the EU is a sinking ship then those voters might have done the right thing. Maybe you are not aware of the problems the EU has created for itself?

20160620_brexit1_0.jpg
 
They do have to be tough because they don't wanting this leaving business to become a thing. If they take a firm and hard line against England, it will discourage other members from wanting to get out based on a poor understanding of the consequences.
How do you know people did not understand the consequences?

If the EU is a sinking ship then those voters might have done the right thing. Maybe you are not aware of the problems the EU has created for itself?

View attachment 7300

Yes, it's a fair bet that you know more than anyone else.

After all, you have a cartoon to back your position. Clearly all those who disagree with you are sadly ignorant and misinformed.

How can anyone argue with a cartoon, FFS??
 
How do you know people did not understand the consequences?

If the EU is a sinking ship then those voters might have done the right thing. Maybe you are not aware of the problems the EU has created for itself?

View attachment 7300

Yes, it's a fair bet that you know more than anyone else.

After all, you have a cartoon to back your position. Clearly all those who disagree with you are sadly ignorant and misinformed.

How can anyone argue with a cartoon, FFS??

The Stay camp contain a lot of very educated people and statesman but they are perhaps more naive than misinformed.

Cartoons are brilliant satire which can give a concept what hundreds of words required.

Though many are in denial, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, had to be bailed out.
Cyprus was also affected by the Greek crisis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis
The economy of the small island of Cyprus with 840,000 people was hit by several huge blows in and around 2012 including, amongst other things, the €22 billion exposure of Cypriot banks to the Greek debt haircut, the downgrading of the Cypriot economy into junk status by international rating agencies and the inability of the government to refund its state expenses.

On 25 June 2012, the Cypriot Government requested a bailout from the European Financial Stability Facility or the European Stability Mechanism, citing difficulties in supporting its banking sector from the exposure to the Greek debt haircut
 
They do have to be tough because they don't wanting this leaving business to become a thing. If they take a firm and hard line against England, it will discourage other members from wanting to get out based on a poor understanding of the consequences.
How do you know people did not understand the consequences?

If the EU is a sinking ship then those voters might have done the right thing. Maybe you are not aware of the problems the EU has created for itself?

View attachment 7300

Her Merkler is leading the chaos.
 
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