Praise, Worship, Faith - Hosanna in the highest

[Rhea]

To the believer, of course, God is not wholly beyond the senses, nor without evidence. You just aren't convinced of the same conclusions by the same evidence.

Politesse, can you explain for us how to tell the difference between a child’s imaginary friend and a god that reveals itself to only one person at a time?

What signs and symptoms can we look for? How can we be sure? What do I tell my child?
What method do YOU use to tell the difference between an imaginary friend and a god?
This is important info - please share.

 

[Lion IRC]

God reveals Himself to more than just one person at a time.

 

[Lion IRC]

FWIW I think angels are quite real. So I'm the last person who would ever accuse a child of lying about the existence of a friend whom I can't see on demand.

 

[Politesse]

To the believer, of course, God is not wholly beyond the senses, nor without evidence. You just aren't convinced of the same conclusions by the same evidence.

Politesse, can you explain for us how to tell the difference between a child’s imaginary friend and a god that reveals itself to only one person at a time?

What signs and symptoms can we look for? How can we be sure? What do I tell my child?
What method do YOU use to tell the difference between an imaginary friend and a god?
This is important info - please share.

Aside from the obvious differences of age and the transitory nature of the former, I don't see how one could.

If anything, I would be inclined to think that a lot of "imaginary friends" are exactly the same phenomenon as ecstatic communication later in life, whether one decides that both are illusory or reflect a genuine connection with nonhuman spiritual entities. In more animistic cultures, the latter is exactly how experiences of this kind are usually interpreted by surrounding adults.

EDIT: And this interpretation is not absent in monotheism, as Lion just happened to demonstrate above while I was writing this post!

 

[Rhea]

Politesse, can you explain for us how to tell the difference between a child’s imaginary friend and a god that reveals itself to only one person at a time?

Aside from the obvious differences of age and the transitory nature of the former, I don't see how one could.

If anything, I would be inclined to think that a lot of "imaginary friends" are exactly the same phenomenon as ecstatic communication later in life, whether one decides that both are illusory or reflect a genuine connection with nonhuman spiritual entities.

Opens mouth to speak.
Closes it.

Well, alrighty then. It seems that the Queen of England is indeed an alien lizard.

 

[Politesse]

Politesse, can you explain for us how to tell the difference between a child’s imaginary friend and a god that reveals itself to only one person at a time?

Aside from the obvious differences of age and the transitory nature of the former, I don't see how one could.

If anything, I would be inclined to think that a lot of "imaginary friends" are exactly the same phenomenon as ecstatic communication later in life, whether one decides that both are illusory or reflect a genuine connection with nonhuman spiritual entities.

Opens mouth to speak.
Closes it.

Well, alrighty then. It seems that the Queen of England is indeed an alien lizard.

Actually free thought takes one in some interesting directions. I don't mind, personally.

 

[ideologyhunter]

The nice thing about an imaginary friend is that it (or "He" in Christian circles) is endlessly adaptable -- you can customize it into Robert Schuller's god (who would put a bowl of warm milk in front of the fireplace for the puppy to lap) or Fred Phelps' god (who makes sure our soldiers get gut-shot, 'cause he hates fags.)

 

[Lion IRC]

...or you could just go by what the bible says about God.

Terrifying? Yep
Loving? Yep
Willing to forgive? Yep
Willing to punish? Yep

I don't think Phelps or Schuller would ever describe God as one-dimensional.

 

[Jobar]

God reveals Himself to more than just one person at a time.

But it seems that He never reveals Himself to those who doubt His existence, in ways which would allow them to convince others who doubt. IOW, His revelations are never the sort of thing that a skeptic would accept as miraculous- a true sign from God.

I'm also quite sure that if a group of believers were to agree they saw an act of God, if you could immediately separate them, and get each to report just what they experienced, no two of those reports would be alike in detail, and usually not even in general outline- unless their testimony was so vague and non-specific that nothing significant could be learned from them. The only way you'd see agreement among them would be to let them discuss their individual experiences as a group, first.

I've said many times that there is no one God. Every believer has their own; no two exactly alike. I've tried to find two believers who will both answer my questions, even very broad and general questions, in the same ways; I cannot. Even those who are members of the same church, from the same family, from the same town- let me ask a dozen or so questions of them, and I have always found points on which they cannot agree. All theists agree that a god (heh, or gods) exists; but when any details about that god (or gods) are stated, the arguments begin. And if they attempt to heal those disagreements, they almost never succeed; at best they agree to disagree, each still thinking the other is in error.

 

[Politesse]

But it seems that He never reveals Himself to those who doubt His existence, in ways which would allow them to convince others who doubt.

Do you mean to say that you have never met someone who had a divine encounter despite not being religious at the time? Or that they did not then attempt to use the incident as grounds for spreading that message along? Or just that you have met such a person, and did not consider their account convincing?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm also quite sure that if a group of believers were to agree they saw an act of God, if you could immediately separate them, and get each to report just what they experienced, no two of those reports would be alike in detail, and usually not even in general outline- unless their testimony was so vague and non-specific that nothing significant could be learned from them.

True... but also true of a mugging.

 

[Lion IRC]

...But it seems that He never reveals Himself to those who doubt His existence, in ways which would allow them to convince others who doubt.

If you had a Road to Damascus experience or a Doubting Thomas event how would you convince Rhea or Jimmy Higgins or southernhybrid?

 

[Rhea]

...But it seems that He never reveals Himself to those who doubt His existence, in ways which would allow them to convince others who doubt.

If you had a Road to Damascus experience or a Doubting Thomas event how would you convince Rhea or Jimmy Higgins or southernhybrid?

Surely a god would know how, eh?

I’ve already said what wold convince me. If a god said to me that it would inhibit all crime - ALL CRIME - for one month, across the entire globe, and then did that, I would be a believer.

If the god said that to me and then I shared that with everyone here on TFT, and then it happened? We’d all believe.

Instead all you ever get is things that people do also without a god.

Here are some events that never ever happen, so having them happen with a little advance notice would be supernatural:
Every missing limb is regrown, planet wide.
Every case of blindness is healed, planet-wide.
Every case of paralysis - healed worldwide.
Every imminent rape - stopped when the rapist turns to a pillar of salt

It would be so easy for a god, right?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Or -- as has been said before -- any deity could inscribe a multi-language message on the moon (the side we can see.) What's the moon for, if not to serve as a billboard for this god? If "He" really craves this relationship with me (that the Jesus folk say he does) he can advertise the fact. I'm not hard to get but I'm wary. "SMMD seeks gullible, caring BBH" -- that would do. (i.e., Single Multiracial Male Deity & Bible Believing Human.)

 

[Rhea]

That one wouldn’t make me an instant believer. We know physical tools could carve that and a sufficiently advanced alien could do that. But changing behavior and distance healing? That’s not easy to pull off, unless one is a god and then everything is easy, amirite?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

...or you could just go by what the bible says about God.

Terrifying? Yep
Loving? Yep
Willing to forgive? Yep
Willing to punish? Yep

I don't think Phelps or Schuller would ever describe God as one-dimensional.

Agreed. Multi-personality disorder would be more appropriate.