President Biden's Infrastructure Plans

[Jimmy Higgins]

If, as seems likely, Biden fails to get his infrastructure plan enacted I will assign 100% of the blame to Joe Manchin^*. There is also an opportunity, via H.R. 1, DC statehood, and perhaps Scotus "packing" to resurrect America's democracy. If this fails, again I will give Manchin all the blame.

If Biden fails to force the issue, I'll blame HIM.
I do not for one moment think that Joe Manchin would hold to a position that will doom American democracy if he is forced to choose. He has little or no chance of re-election in any event, so the thing that is at stake is his legacy. He has to know that.

Biden needs to push for the abolition of the filibuster, get Schumer to do the same, and start forcing the fascists off the playing field.

If they can't ensure voting rights, fund an infrastructure overhaul, reform the SCOTUS and re-constitute the public education system, this country is toast anyhow.

That'll all be the end of our democracy. What do you think the Trump GOP Senate and House will do once they regain control after we "reform" SCOTUS? We need to replace Breyer and keep sending Justice Thomas retirement brochures of luxurious (and affordable) tropical island homes.

Infrastructure, education, meat and potatoes needs to be the focus. Joe Schmoe doesn't give a damn about SCOTUS.

 

[Elixir]

What do you think the Trump GOP Senate and House will do once they regain control after we "reform" SCOTUS?

LESS than what they can do if these things are fait accompli prior to them re-gaining control. If they get Congress in '22 and the White House in '24, the end of democracy will come sooner than later. If that happens.... New Zealand still seems nice.

We need to replace Breyer and keep sending Justice Thomas retirement brochures of luxurious (and affordable) tropical island homes.

Fuck that - luxurious, affordable, tropical... send ME the brochures!

Infrastructure, education, meat and potatoes needs to be the focus. Joe Schmoe doesn't give a damn about SCOTUS.

Agreed 100%, if you add voting rights reform (the only real hope of preventing a Nazi takeover).
SCOTUS should not be left to Joe Schmoe. Any messing with it will be contorted into a right wing talking point, and made to seem tantamount to violent invasion of the Capitol to overturn an election. That will be the case regardless of who does it, why or to what end. So I am okay with waiting until 2025 to see that done.
Meanwhile, let's get those front burner things underway, even if they have to be crammed down the throat of the Nazi Party.

 

[TV and credit cards]

What’s the latest on a source to pay for infrastructure? Well, let’s get it from the people who can least afford a tank of gas.

Same old shit. In the end, it’s always the same old shit.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Huge deal kind of maybe reached in Infrastructure bill! It looks awful! Really awful! Even more awful than the agreement might not actually be an agreement. Meaning an agreement would be even worse!

It would cost $974 billion over five years, or $1.2 trillion if extrapolated over eight years. About $579 billion of the total would be new spending.

Okay, now, for those playing at home, yes, I noticed it to, $974 billion over 5 years doesn't "extrapolate" to $1.2 trillion over 8 years. It means the funding is near dead after 5 years. New spending, nearly $600 billion. BUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT...

The group proposes paying for it through unspent coronavirus relief aid, public-private partnerships, indexing the gas tax to account for inflation and allowing states to borrow necessary money through a revolving loan fund.

What, not pension smoothing? The public-private bullshit again? That was a right-wing wet dream that went no where under Trump. I don't think Trump gave a fuck about infrastructure and it was some right-wing idiot's idea of how the corporations can finally own everything. Public-private partnerships are a terrible idea, especially in the way it was suggested 4 to 5 years ago. So in general, the plan is to pay for infrastructure by using money not spent on a pandemic that isn't over and is getting spent anyway, giving away the infrastructure to private corporations and private equity, finally indexing the gas tax to inflation, and have states borrow money.

THIS IS THE DEAL?! So we get less infrastructure, will own less infrastructure, and states will need to borrow for it. I think the article is short-sighted, complaining that this bill lacks the other infrastructure. This bill lacks actual infrastructure spending! So $579 billion in new spending, over 8 years, is $75 billion a year.

This isn't a compromise, it is an insult. An insult the Republicans might not even support. Why bother? This "bipartisan" plan is worthless.

Reduce the scope of the original plan to get it to fall in line with reconciliation, drop a little more (to get AZ and WV votes in), fund it with actual money, and pass it 50 +1.

 

[Swammerdami]

... the gas tax to inflation, and have states borrow money.

THIS IS THE DEAL?! So we get less infrastructure, will own less infrastructure, and states will need to borrow for it. I think the article is short-sighted, complaining that this bill lacks the other infrastructure. This bill lacks actual infrastructure spending! So $579 billion in new spending, over 8 years, is $75 billion a year.

This isn't a compromise, it is an insult. An insult the Republicans might not even support. Why bother? This "bipartisan" plan is worthless.

Reduce the scope of the original plan to get it to fall in line with reconciliation, drop a little more (to get AZ and WV votes in), fund it with actual money, and pass it 50 +1.

Agree 100%.

Gas tax??? :whack: This is sabotage; the Rs will spend huge sums on TV telling Americans to blame Biden and the Ds every time they fill their tanks.

"Loans" to states??? This is a device to move money from the control of the humans working for Biden to the hate-filled cheaters that control almost half the states.

If the Ds allow this travesty, I'm withdrawing my support from the whole American Experiment. Just put Trump or Alex Jones or MTG in charge. Let the pathetic country that wants to turn into a shit-hole get its wish ASAP.

 

[Elixir]

This isn't a compromise, it is an insult. An insult the Republicans might not even support. Why bother? This "bipartisan" plan is worthless.

Sooo ... are you coming around to the idea that it's time to start cramming some things down Rethuglican throats?
'Cuz this shit is all you're going to get if you let the Nazi Party control everything by inducing administrative paralysis for the next year, then claim they will make it all good if we kick the do-nothing Democrats out of office in '22.

If the Ds allow this travesty, I'm withdrawing my support from the whole American Experiment. Just put Trump or Alex Jones or MTG in charge. Let the pathetic country that wants to turn into a shit-hole get its wish ASAP.

That's pretty much how I feel about it too. Grow a pair or go home.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This isn't a compromise, it is an insult. An insult the Republicans might not even support. Why bother? This "bipartisan" plan is worthless.

Sooo ... are you coming around to the idea that it's time to start cramming some things down Rethuglican throats?

That isn't happening either, hence my actual proposed solution. Reconciliation with enough modification to get Manchin and Sinema to vote for it.

Then I guess we say goodbye to passing any other legislation because the GOP will whine about every other bill.

 

[Elixir]

...I guess we say goodbye to passing any other legislation because the GOP will whine about every other bill.

If we're going to call everything except a watered down "infrastructure bill" a lost cause, I submit that the only propitious thing to do is to put the DINOS (Manchin, Sinema) front and center as obstructionists or obstructionist enablers, pre-empting the "do nothing Democrats" (DND) meme from taking hold.
Even without the DND messaging, absent HR1, the Nazis are likely to take over in '22 simply on the strength of voter suppression, gerrymandering and if necessary, violent disruption of the electoral process.

I am not in favor waving a fond goodbye as American democracy disappears over the horizon.

 

[funinspace]

Trumpworld

If the Ds allow this travesty, I'm withdrawing my support from the whole American Experiment. Just put Trump or Alex Jones or MTG in charge. Let the pathetic country that wants to turn into a shit-hole get its wish ASAP.

Something like 2024:
President: FFvC
VP: Vamp Giuliani
Homeland Security: Steve Bannon
Sec Defense: Michael Flynn
Senate Leader: Alex Jones sheds his Moscow Mitch skin for real
Speaker of the House: MTG

 

[Patooka]

If the Ds allow this travesty, I'm withdrawing my support from the whole American Experiment. Just put Trump or Alex Jones or MTG in charge. Let the pathetic country that wants to turn into a shit-hole get its wish ASAP.

Something like 2024:
President: FFvC
VP: Vamp Giuliani
Homeland Security: Steve Bannon
Sec Defense: Michael Flynn
Senate Leader: Alex Jones sheds his Moscow Mitch skin for real
Speaker of the House: MTG

First Lady: Ivanka Trump
Attorney General: Joe Arpaio
Secretary of State: State Department is completely dissolved
Secretary of Education: Louie Gohmert
Press Secretary: closest unfortunate staffer on any given day

That's the fucking Dream Team.

 

[Derec]

Something like 2024:
President: FFvC
VP: Vamp Giuliani
Homeland Security: Steve Bannon
Sec Defense: Michael Flynn
Senate Leader: Alex Jones sheds his Moscow Mitch skin for real
Speaker of the House: MTG

You guys are taking "infrastructure is everything" way too literally. What do your fantasies have to do with the infrastructure plans anyway?

 

[Derec]

If we're going to call everything except a watered down "infrastructure bill" a lost cause,

Watered down? The original proposal was so bloated with non-infrastructure spending that a lot of trimming was necessary.
Is this compromise the best possible bill? No. But it is a step in the right direction.

I submit that the only propitious thing to do is to put the DINOS (Manchin, Sinema) front and center as obstructionists or obstructionist enablers, pre-empting the "do nothing Democrats" (DND) meme from taking hold.

Those two Senators are entitled to support or not support any given bill. They are not obligated to fall behind the party leadership.

Even without the DND messaging, absent HR1, the Nazis

The Nazis? What the fuck?

I am not in favor waving a fond goodbye as American democracy disappears over the horizon.

Right. Because anything but Biden administration getting all of their agenda rubber stamped by Congress is a harbinger of the end of democracy.

 

[Derec]

Reduce the scope of the original plan to get it to fall in line with reconciliation, drop a little more (to get AZ and WV votes in), fund it with actual money, and pass it 50 +1.

It definitely needs to be reduced in scope (only infrastructure) and total spending (inflation is already rearing its ugly head, now is not the time to spend frivolously).

 

[Elixir]

The original proposal was so bloated with non-infrastructure spending that a lot of trimming was necessary.

In the opinion of Derec, whose judgment is as suspect as his predictions.
In fact our infrastructure is so delapidated that the is rapidly descending into third world status. Which is great for authoritarian right wing extremists and billionaires. But bad for everyone else.

Those two Senators are entitled to support or not support any given bill.

And voters are entitled to free and fair elections to get rid of them. That's why the Nazi party is trying to do away with free and fair elections.

The Nazis? What the fuck?

Yes, Nazis. Authoritarians who condone and incite attacks against the nation's Capitol, and attempt to overturn democratic elections.
What the fuck indeed.

I am not in favor waving a fond goodbye as American democracy disappears over the horizon.

Roll your eyes all you want. Until you can justify tyranny of the minority, you have no basis for complaint about tyranny of the majority.
But we all know that Nazis are ALL ABOUT tyranny of the minority.

 

[Derec]

In the opinion of Derec,

Not an opinion, a fact. That Biden's "infrastructure" plan contains many things that are not infrastructure (e.g. elder care) is a fact. That's why Gillebrand feebly tweeted how everything was supposedly infrastructure.

In fact our infrastructure is so delapidated that the is rapidly descending into third world status.

Hyperbole, but yes, we should invest in infrastructure. I am in favor of a good infrastructure bill. Biden's proposal isn't that as it wastes a lot of money on things not infrastructure.
We also need to be cognizant of the fact that money, contrary to AOC and so-called "modern monetary theory", does not grow on trees. Since US spent a lot of money on COVID over the last 15 months or so, we need to prioritize and target sending and not just throw a bunch of money around which will only heat up inflation further.

Which is great for authoritarian right wing extremists and billionaires.

How is that great for them?

And voters are entitled to free and fair elections to get rid of them. That's why the Nazi party is trying to do away with free and fair elections.

There you go again, Godwining all over this thread again. This is a thread about infrastructure, not about elections, January 6th or your unhinged hyperbole about the GOP.

But we all know that Nazis are ALL ABOUT tyranny of the minority.

Hitler was actually elected fair and square according to the constitution of the Weimar Republic.
Go read a history book instead of derailing this thread with your histrionics.

 

[funinspace]

Something like 2024:
President: FFvC
VP: Vamp Giuliani
Homeland Security: Steve Bannon
Sec Defense: Michael Flynn
Senate Leader: Alex Jones sheds his Moscow Mitch skin for real
Speaker of the House: MTG

You guys are taking "infrastructure is everything" way too literally.

Well, you got the "guy" part right at least...I am male.

What do your fantasies have to do with the infrastructure plans anyway?

Thank Zeus that my fantasies have nothing to do with US infrastructure plans. But strange that you ask...

 

[lpetrich]

Biden's proposal isn't that as it wastes a lot of money on things not infrastructure.

Maybe from the perspective of a right-wing dudebro.

We also need to be cognizant of the fact that money, contrary to AOC and so-called "modern monetary theory", does not grow on trees.

But when it comes to things that right-wingers like, like military and police forces, right-wingers seem to think that money grows on trees for such things, that all they have to do is pick each day's crop of money from their money-tree orchards.

That aside, the amount of money is not absolutely fixed, but instead increases.

Hitler was actually elected fair and square according to the constitution of the Weimar Republic.

He wasn't elected President. Americans often naively project their system of government on other nations.

 

[Derec]

Maybe from the perspective of a right-wing dudebro.

It's not about perspective or your cheap name-calling.
It's about facts. Biden's kitchen sink plan is much broader than just infrastructure.

But when it comes to things that right-wingers like, like military and police forces,

It is not just right-wingers who see the importance of a robust military and police forces.
"Defund police" is a minority position even among Democrats, although it is dominant among loudmouth activists on the far left.

That aside, the amount of money is not absolutely fixed, but instead increases.

So it's ok for government to spend unlimited money and who cares about debt or inflaton?

He wasn't elected President. Americans often naively project their system of government on other nations.

Of course he wasn't elected president! The president of Germany, Paul von Hindenburg, tasked him with forming a government and he was elected Reichskanzler (prime minister) by the Reichstag (parliament). Similar to how all parliamentary systems work. Similar to how things work in Germany to this day.

 

[ZiprHead]

Not an opinion, a fact. That Biden's "infrastructure" plan contains many things that are not infrastructure (e.g. elder care) is a fact. That's why Gillebrand feebly tweeted how everything was supposedly infrastructure.


Hyperbole, but yes, we should invest in infrastructure. I am in favor of a good infrastructure bill. Biden's proposal isn't that as it wastes a lot of money on things not infrastructure.
We also need to be cognizant of the fact that money, contrary to AOC and so-called "modern monetary theory", does not grow on trees. Since US spent a lot of money on COVID over the last 15 months or so, we need to prioritize and target sending and not just throw a bunch of money around which will only heat up inflation further.

Which is great for authoritarian right wing extremists and billionaires.

How is that great for them?

And voters are entitled to free and fair elections to get rid of them. That's why the Nazi party is trying to do away with free and fair elections.

There you go again, Godwining all over this thread again. This is a thread about infrastructure, not about elections, January 6th or your unhinged hyperbole about the GOP.

But we all know that Nazis are ALL ABOUT tyranny of the minority.

Hitler was actually elected fair and square according to the constitution of the Weimar Republic.
Go read a history book instead of derailing this thread with your histrionics.

Infrastructure is the set of fundamental facilities and systems that support the sustainable functionality of households and firms. Serving a country, city, or other area, including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.

What parts of the Biden bill does this not apply to?

 

[Swammerdami]

We also need to be cognizant of the fact that money ... does not grow on trees.

Correct. Yes, that's one of my favorite heist movies also.