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Public education is a socialist monopoly

And if I go to a fetid cesspool of a redneck church, I'd be one of the very few; possibly the only; Atheist (sic) liberals. (sic)

I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove, though.

No atheist would EVER be cursed, mocked, attacked by wave after wave of people, repeating themselves angrily, and condescendingly, and hatefully.
That's exactly what happens not just here, but in every single atheist forum.

You would be warmly greeted and treated with respect, even love - things atheists desperately need to learn.

Respect is something people earn. Demanding it is a sure way to avoid earning it. Giving it to others is a good starting point; but the respect of those who don't deserve it is worthless.

It is easy to lose, and hard to earn.
 
What you have shown is that throwing additional money at the problem doesn't help.

Bravo, sir. Kudos to you. If in fact throwing more money doesn't help, why then do teachers scream from street corners for more money, "For the children!"

Bad schools are bad because they get bad students, funding issues are not a big factor.

Look, we are making progress! What will all your *rational* friends say about a reasoned dialogue between you and me?

There are many reasons why students are not being properly educated throughout America. Do you know what the strongest correlate to educational achievement is?
It is NOT money. So let's stop pretending that it is. Let's stop throwing more and more money as Leftists incessantly demand.
The top correlate is the father's educational level. Just think about that in conjunction with black fathers who sire illegitimate children, who are raised by their single mothers, often on welfare.

However, that does not show that more money means lower achievement.

What then could possibly be the purpose of throwing more money if, as you already admitted, "additional money doesn't help"?
Only one reason. The stranglehold teachers' unions have on the Democrat Party.

What you are looking at there is the attempts to expand the number of people going to college. Students that were not taking the SAT before now are and that's bringing down the averages.

And for this, the educrats must be held responsible. They are constantly GROWING their business, at the expense of students. My friend has two sons with degrees holding menial jobs. What a waste of resources.
 
Respect is something people earn. Demanding it is a sure way to avoid earning it. Giving it to others is a good starting point; but the respect of those who don't deserve it is worthless.

So then you are disrespectful to everyone you meet, until they "earn" your respect... by agreeing with you? Those who do not agree suffer the wrath of you and all your friends.

The atheist attending virtually any church in America would NOT have to "earn" respect to be given it.
Nevertheless, what I have been receiving has been hatred, animus, profanity, and abusive insults, from dozens of people.
That's cowardice and bullying.
 
Respect is something people earn. Demanding it is a sure way to avoid earning it. Giving it to others is a good starting point; but the respect of those who don't deserve it is worthless.

So then you are disrespectful to everyone you meet, until they "earn" your respect... by agreeing with you? Those who do not agree suffer the wrath of you and all your friends.

The atheist attending virtually any church in America would NOT have to "earn" respect to be given it.
Nevertheless, what I have been receiving has been hatred, animus, profanity, and abusive insults, from dozens of people.
That's cowardice and bullying.

Why do you imagine I would give a fuck what happens in America? I am not planning a visit anytime soon; and I would not seek the approbation of church congregations while there if I did.

As I said, respect is easy to lose. You blew it before you knew it.
 
No atheist would EVER be cursed, mocked, attacked by wave after wave of people, repeating themselves angrily, and condescendingly, and hatefully.
That's exactly what happens not just here, but in every single atheist forum.

You would be warmly greeted and treated with respect, even love - things atheists desperately need to learn.

88712cfec4fc031df0aee5628efcf84b154a78830b2882461b62765bc77571bd.jpg


It's almost as if you don't know what it's like to be an atheist in a religious society.
 
In this fetid cesspool of Leftists,

Ah, is that the sound of the Christian civility and love you proclaim is lacking among us atheists?



First, you cannot POSSIBLY refute all I presented, because I presented facts. Unassailable facts. Educrats have dumbed down SAT tests to hide their miserable failure.
REFUTE THAT, with facts and graphs, not simply your declaration. I could go on at considerable length, but like all the other Leftists, you would simply create new objections from out of.....

I did refute all of your false assertions and misrepresentations with real facts and valid graphs (and valid statistical reasoning that all your sources and posts lack), in the two prior posts that I linked from this one and that you blindly ignored.


Holding sampling method and other confounds constant, there is a strong positive correlation between the per pupil expenditures that come from local revenues and academic achievement.

Oh please, stop it. Is that why Washington, D.C. has one of the highest per pupil spending rates in the country, while students perform near the bottom there?

Yes, that is exactly why D.C.'s average is low and why your claim that D.C. "students perform near the bottom" is completely false and not at all a "fact". What is a fact is that the average score for the students that take the SAT in D.C. is near the bottom, but that is because DC requires that all high school seniors take the SAT, thus 91% take it which is the 4th highest % in the country. Most States have less than their top 50% take the SAT and 19 Statest have only their top 10% of students take it. If you cannot understand how that completely determines the per state average, then you are not capable of forming a rational view of the subject (or just about any subject). This is the 4th time I have had to explain this to you, so you clearly didn't bother to read my posts.


Is that why Obamas send their daughters to Sidwell Friends School?
Yes, the non-comparable non-random samples selected using different methods is precisely why private schools have an advantage over public.
Private schools differ from public in numerous ways, with the biggest being that public schools are more of a representative sample of the population and include most of the problem students (both behavioral and academic problems). Private schools are a highly selective non-representative sample of students with parents that chose to and can afford to pay for private school, and who have good enough grades and an absence of behavioral problems to allow them to be admitted into and not get kicked out of private schools, which often do so at the first sign of trouble. Problem students in private schools get kicked out into public schools, while problem students in public schools get kicked out into other public schools. In addition private schools still can and do use corporal punishment and often have strict dress codes, which can lower behavioral problems and distractions. Note that use of corporal punishments, dress codes, and simply kicking out and abandoning problem students (all qualities of private schools) are not incompatible with public school. So, the fact that public education is hampered by not doing these things is not an argument against public education in general and has zero to do with spending, except that private schools keep cost down by their ignoring of problem students.


Is that why the New York Teachers union Charter School performs at the 5th percentile, while Carl Icahn's four Charter Schools rank from 88th to 100th percentile?

Icahn schools are publicly funded schools that get $15,000 per pupil from public tax revenues, which they supplement with philanthropic donations. They achieve good results via unusually low student to teacher ratios, long school days and school years, and 1-on-1 tutoring for all students that score low on standardized tests. They also keep typical social distractions to a minimum via a small number of students at each school, only about 20 per grade level.. All of these things cost money. Like private schools, their students are a non-representative sub-sample of all students in the area. The kids whose parents have and take the time to research school options and apply to Icahn based on its record are the one's who get in. Parents also need to choose Icahn despite its long school day, which parents of kids with special needs or behavioral problems are much less likely to do. Only about 5% of the students that enroll in Icahn require special Ed., whereas it is about 18% for traditional public schools in the area and about 14% at other Charter schools in the area. IOW, Charter schools don't have to deal with the same level of costs or general learning disruptions incurred by special needs students, and Icahn deals with even much less of it than most other Charters, such as the teachers Union school you reference.



If I never respond again to your remarks,
You didn't respond to my posts even once yet. You ignored the links to my prior 2 posts where I laid out in scientific detail why your every "fact" and claim is false, and why your sources providing these graphs for you are too scientifically and statistically illiterate to possibly provide you with any valid information.
Your reply is just another re-vomitting of the same meaningless and irrelevant "facts" that I already refuted in detail.
I predict that you will continue to ignore the facts I and others have presented, as you've done in every post in this and all your other threads. I only bother to post more of them in here for the potential benefit to others in the thread who are interested in rational understanding of the issue and gaining a better understanding about the fatal flaws in the kind of abused stats you and your ideological brethren regurgitate.
 
Ah, is that the sound of the Christian civility and love you proclaim is lacking among us atheists?

I called this a fetid cesspool after reading hatred and vulgarity such as this:

bilby said:
: Why do you imagine I would give a fuck what happens in America? I am not planning a visit anytime soon; and I would not seek the approbation of church congregations while there if I did.

Not once has any *rational* *free-thinker* condemned ignorance, profanity, and grossly inappropriate conduct from any fellow leftist/atheist. Not once.
Fetid cesspool is a very accurate description. You people chase away anyone decent or thinking. So you are left alone, with all your fellow haters.
Welcome to your very own hell. You made it. You maintain it.

I hate God.jpg
 
I called this a fetid cesspool after reading hatred and vulgarity such as this:

bilby said:
: Why do you imagine I would give a fuck what happens in America? I am not planning a visit anytime soon; and I would not seek the approbation of church congregations while there if I did.

Not once has any *rational* *free-thinker* condemned ignorance, profanity, and grossly inappropriate conduct from any fellow leftist/atheist.
Well, we'd have to think that 'give a fuck' was ignorant or grossly inappropriate to give enough of a fuck to condemn it, wouldn't we?
Since we're not that afraid of 'bad words,' there's not much of a chance of us overreacting to words used for emphasis.
 
Bravo, sir. Kudos to you. If in fact throwing more money doesn't help, why then do teachers scream from street corners for more money, "For the children!"

Just because throwing money at a reasonably-funded school doesn't help matters does mean there aren't underfunded schools.

The top correlate is the father's educational level. Just think about that in conjunction with black fathers who sire illegitimate children, who are raised by their single mothers, often on welfare.

Father's or parent's?

What you are looking at there is the attempts to expand the number of people going to college. Students that were not taking the SAT before now are and that's bringing down the averages.

And for this, the educrats must be held responsible. They are constantly GROWING their business, at the expense of students. My friend has two sons with degrees holding menial jobs. What a waste of resources.

What sort of degrees, though? Most with degrees they can't use got degrees that aren't worth much.
 
Not once has any *rational* *free-thinker* condemned ignorance, profanity, and grossly inappropriate conduct from any fellow leftist/atheist. Not once.

Why would we? Who wants that kind of social control? This is exactly what was wrong with Socialist Russia. I don´t judge Christians as a group worse because individual Christians misbehave. Same goes for atheists.

Fetid cesspool is a very accurate description. You people chase away anyone decent or thinking. So you are left alone, with all your fellow haters.
Welcome to your very own hell. You made it. You maintain it.

I´ve yet to meet a more tolerant, liberal and understanding group of people than atheists. Most legislations around the world that are intended to oppress and marginalise groups are nearly all religiously motivated. I just don´t see this hate you´re talking about. I will freely admit that I think it is idiotic to believe in God. But it´s such an incredibly silly notion, that it´s hard to dress it up in a way that doesn´t come across as condescending.... also... dishonest. If you think that should be defined as hate then you truly are one sensitive little flower. Remember, you came here volontarily. If it hurts your feelings that people don´t agree with you, you might consider sticking to forums where people share your values?
 
And if I go to a fetid cesspool of a redneck church, I'd be one of the very few; possibly the only; Atheist (sic) liberals. (sic)

I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove, though.

No atheist would EVER be cursed, mocked, attacked by wave after wave of people, repeating themselves angrily, and condescendingly, and hatefully.
That's exactly what happens not just here, but in every single atheist forum.

You would be warmly greeted and treated with respect, even love - things atheists desperately need to learn.
In 7 state constitutions, atheists are barred from holding public office (see  Discrimination_against_atheists#United_States). Perhaps you should reread Matthew 7:5.
 
I called this a fetid cesspool after reading hatred and vulgarity such as this:

bilby said:
: Why do you imagine I would give a fuck what happens in America? I am not planning a visit anytime soon; and I would not seek the approbation of church congregations while there if I did.

'Give a fuck' is normal conversational English; and I don't see any hatred at all in what I said - although your 'response' fairly reeks of it.

I understand that you live in a closeted world where restrictions on people's use of language are a powerful means of social control; but I do not, so your attempt to shame me, and thereby to control the conversation by raising an aversion to that shame in others here, is doomed. It only works in populations where your small mindedness dominates, and cannot survive in an environment where most people don't give two shits for your arbitrary and pointless rules about what words are 'bad'.

Words only have power over those who give them power. I don't give a fuck if you refer to this place as a 'fetid cesspool'; you are just as entitled to express your opinion as anyone. If people here don't want to hear it, they can simply put you on 'ignore'; and if your opinion of this board is so low, you are free to leave - so as no harm arises, no one cares.

If you make a direct personal attack, then that breaks the rules, and you might be infracted or even banned. But there is no personal attack in what I said, nor any hatred, despite your claim to the contrary.

It is not hatred to express disdain for a person who has behaved like an ass. You can't expect not to be laughed at when you say things that are foolish or ridiculous around here. Perhaps you can where you live, but I don't live there, and I don't care to live there; I have nothing to gain by sucking up to you or pretending I love (or even respect) your ideas or opinions.
 
Just because throwing money at a reasonably-funded school doesn't help matters does mean there aren't underfunded schools.

I'm sure you are right. Hey, look at us have a reasonable dialogue together. Now why can't that take place with practically any of the other
rational freethinkers around here? Let me tell you why. They're not like you. They tend to be vulgar and consummately pretentious, and angry.

We continue, you and I.

That schools have been given more and more money while educating less and less is of course a generalization, across counties and states. If we were to look at some worst case scenarios, you and I could agree on which schools need more money, AND better teachers. The UFT Charter School of New York City should have been reorganized long ago. But the pull and power of teachers' unions on ruling Democrats is abusive to children. It's horrific, and union bosses don't give a hoot.

Father's or parent's?

I said father's. There is only one top correlate. The mother's is of course important, but if she is alone, the child suffers grievously.
Most prisoners detest their absentee father.


What sort of degrees, though? Most with degrees they can't use got degrees that aren't worth much.

Any information I release to hostile audiences such as this one is always used as a cudgel against me. It is the abusive nature of leftist
antagonists to spin things to suit the leftist dogmas. So I shan't say too much about them other than undergrad in a hard science, and grad in a different discipline. In addition, I am a licensed pilot, certified diver, and accomplished in a variety of sports. When I have countered pettiness which claims I am poverty-stricken, or living in the cellar, with facts as to how much I have earned in one year in the stock market, again the antagonists only mock me. It is what they do better than anything else, mock facts they dislike. I will say however that on one of the worst days of the 2007-2008 debacle, the total value of my five accounts decreased by over one hundred large. In a day.

Here is one example of my gains. For approximately five successive years, my real estate mutual fund was up about 20% a year or more.
You do the compound value of 20% annually, and see that it gets big in a hurry.

Here is some financial insight I think you can use. The earnings to price ratio (inverse of P/E) is the highest correlate to market performance.
In this month's Forbes magazine, several financial advisers give their stock picks and include P/E ratios. It should now be clear to you why
they do so.

Look at CNXT and FBT. Good luck with your future investments. They're of critical importance to you.
 
Wait, you didn't show education is either socialist or a monopoly.

I quoted the late Milton Friedman, professor emeritus from University of Illinois, Chicago, and a Nobel Laureate in economics, in case you didn't know.

That tells me that Milton Friedman a microeconomics theorist thinks education is an socialist endeavor. That and a dime tells me nothing about what you gathered about education being either socialist or a monopoly.

I did present a wealth of data which rather conclusively show the breathtaking failure of public education - a system lauded by hypocrites such as the Clintons, the Gores, and the Obamas, even as they send or sent their own children to the exclusive Sidwell Friends School, and NOT the public schools you so pathetically defend to the death.
Argue those facts, please. Don't stop believing in the liberal hypocrisy, ever.

You showed a wealth of shit that Fox threw on the wall that apparently convinces you enough for you to repeat it. Your adhominems against your apparent enemies notwithstanding what I have experienced through 40 years as the husband of a teacher, instructional teacher facilitator, and principal, leads me to conclude otherwise.

Lets argue facts that can stand up to independent analysis or lets not discuss at all. Since you don't seem able to make independent judgments beyond what you read from those you worship I suggest we do the latter.
 
I'm sure you are right. Hey, look at us have a reasonable dialogue together. Now why can't that take place with practically any of the other
rational freethinkers around here? Let me tell you why. They're not like you. They tend to be vulgar and consummately pretentious, and angry. disagree with me, and not show me the deference and respect to which I believe myself entitled.

FTFY. :D
 
In 7 state constitutions, atheists are barred from holding public office.

Oh I weep.
In every single state preamble, the word "God" appears.

Let him who hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. - The Book of Luke
Swords are not used for plowing. They are fighting instruments.
Nor did Jesus turn his other cheek to the moneychangers. No, He overturned their tables and lashed them.
 
In 7 state constitutions, atheists are barred from holding public office.

Oh I weep.
In every single state preamble, the word "God" appears.

Let him who hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. - The Book of Luke
Swords are not used for plowing. They are fighting instruments.
Nor did Jesus turn his other cheek to the moneychangers. No, He overturned their tables and lashed them.

...and because we were settled by mainly protestant Christians we should keep in our charters that thought and hold it against everyone who thinks and acts otherwise? Whatawegonnadooo. Turn the cheek or smite them with our mighty sword. Your model suggests we should do the latter since it was the way before the new way of the latter came along. But then, would we still be Christians? God's can be so changeable.....

Maybe we should change what we put in our constitution when it comes to actionable personal beliefs.
 
In 7 state constitutions, atheists are barred from holding public office.

Oh I weep.
In every single state preamble, the word "God" appears.

Let him who hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. - The Book of Luke
Swords are not used for plowing. They are fighting instruments.
Nor did Jesus turn his other cheek to the moneychangers. No, He overturned their tables and lashed them.
Quite a 180 from "You would be warmly greeted and treated with respect, even love - things atheists desperately need to learn.". LOL.
 
Oh I weep.
In every single state preamble, the word "God" appears.

Let him who hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. - The Book of Luke
Swords are not used for plowing. They are fighting instruments.
Nor did Jesus turn his other cheek to the moneychangers. No, He overturned their tables and lashed them.
Quite a 180 from "You would be warmly greeted and treated with respect, even love - things atheists desperately need to learn.". LOL.

Noooo-ah his didn't float either - the twister
 
I called this a fetid cesspool after reading hatred and vulgarity such as this:

bilby said:
: Why do you imagine I would give a fuck what happens in America? I am not planning a visit anytime soon; and I would not seek the approbation of church congregations while there if I did.

Not once has any *rational* *free-thinker* condemned ignorance, profanity, and grossly inappropriate conduct from any fellow leftist/atheist. Not once.
Fetid cesspool is a very accurate description. You people chase away anyone decent or thinking. So you are left alone, with all your fellow haters.
Welcome to your very own hell. You made it. You maintain it.

View attachment 3110

May I ask what is your reason for responding to ronburgundy's extensive post on the difference in the composition of student bodies between public schools and private schools by chastising behavior of posters other than ronburgundy?

Why did you ignore the substantive content?

He may have commented on your demeanor but that was hardly the meat of his post.
 
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