Putin's Real Long Game

[Harry Bosch]

Wow, do you not feel the tinniest bit hypocritical? I mean come on, if someone from Sweden or wherever wants to slam HRC fine. But you support the most brutal regime in the world today, Russia. Russia has killed thousands and thousands of civilians in Syria. You've destabilized whole regions (ME and Eastern Europe), invaded and taken land and then occupied it! People who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing so many rocks. You need to look in the mirror.....

Of for fuck's sake! Russia is the most brutal regime in the world because they are bombing the middle East? you are the one that needs to look in the mirror. The USA has been bombing this area and killing civilians by the thousands for decades. It is the USA who has no moral high ground here. Get off your high horse and read a history book for once.

You didn't read my post clearly. I don't like our foreign policy either. I have no problem criticizing our foreign policy. Will fully supports Russian actions in Ukraine and Syria. Russian carpet bombing in Syria has killed far more civilians than have died by US drones. Far more.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/r...s-led-airstrikes-on-syrians-as-bad-as-russias

The link above is a fair story regarding Russian carpet bombing vs US bombing. The Russian attacks kill about 8 civilians to every 1 civilian killed by US bombs.

 

[barbos]

And how is Putin calling Russia's enemies Hitler any different from Hillary making such a comparison? Really, if any one of these leaders is batshit insane enough to use nukes, Hillary would have been a distant third behind Trump and Putin.

You need to give a link here, And certainly where he calls Hillary a hitler.

 

[barbos]

UN report on Human Rights in Ukraine:

179. The start of the 2016-2017 school year in Crimea and the city of Sevastopol confirmed the continuous decline of Ukrainian as a language of instruction, a phenomenon observed since Ukraine’s loss of de facto sovereignty over the peninsula in March 2014, while an increasing number of Crimean Tatar parents appear to be making use of the possibility of educating their children in the Crimean Tatar language.

180. There are 533 schools in Crimea. Of the seven Ukrainian language education institutions that existed until 2014, the Simferopol Gymnasium School is the only one remaining. This year, however, it ceased instruction in Ukrainian in the first and second grade. The spokesperson of the Crimean ‘ministry of education’ attributed this to a supposed lack of interest among parents for continuing Ukrainian-language instruction.

"Supposed lack of interest" indeed.

Yes, lack of interest. Russian does not need special protection, it was ukrainian which had been under forced protection and once this protection was removed it's only natural that the ukrainian dropped.

That's precisely why such "forced protections" are needed. Besides if Russian language did not need protection, why make a big fuss about the language law that Ukrainian parliament voted down in the first place? It was never anything but a pretext.

It's not that russian speaking ukrainians really worried about language, after all, even some of the worst anti-russian pro-ukrainians in the current government refuse to speak ukrainian and use russian. Language is indeed was a pretext but it was a pretext for attack on russians. They understood that they should not expect anything good from these people who got into power if the first order of business for them was to ban russian language.

 

[Jayjay]

And how is Putin calling Russia's enemies Hitler any different from Hillary making such a comparison? Really, if any one of these leaders is batshit insane enough to use nukes, Hillary would have been a distant third behind Trump and Putin.

You need to give a link here, And certainly where he calls Hillary a hitler.

I didn't say he called Hillary a Hitler. But in one of his state of the nation speeches he compared Russia's enemies to Hitler:

Despite our unprecedented openness back then and our willingness to cooperate in all, even the most sensitive issues, despite the fact that we considered – and all of you are aware of this and remember it – our former adversaries as close friends and even allies, the support for separatism in Russia from across the pond, including information, political and financial support and support provided by the special services – was absolutely obvious and left no doubt that they would gladly let Russia follow the Yugoslav scenario of disintegration and dismemberment. With all the tragic fallout for the people of Russia.

It didn’t work. We didn’t allow that to happen.

Just as it did not work for Hitler with his people-hating ideas, who set out to destroy Russia and push us back beyond the Urals. Everyone should remember how it ended.

In another speech, he openly called the Ukrainian government "ideological heirs of Bandera, Hitler’s accomplice". Clearly Putin has no problem throwing the H-word around.

ETA: And in fact, Hillary did not call Putin a Hitler either, just made a comparison between something he is doing and what Hitler did in 1939. The point is not that historical comparisons can't be made, but that both sides make them (Russia rides the "we defeated Hitler" train every year in the victory day celebrations) and it does not imply a desire to nuke anyone.

 

[Jayjay]

UN report on Human Rights in Ukraine:

179. The start of the 2016-2017 school year in Crimea and the city of Sevastopol confirmed the continuous decline of Ukrainian as a language of instruction, a phenomenon observed since Ukraine’s loss of de facto sovereignty over the peninsula in March 2014, while an increasing number of Crimean Tatar parents appear to be making use of the possibility of educating their children in the Crimean Tatar language.

180. There are 533 schools in Crimea. Of the seven Ukrainian language education institutions that existed until 2014, the Simferopol Gymnasium School is the only one remaining. This year, however, it ceased instruction in Ukrainian in the first and second grade. The spokesperson of the Crimean ‘ministry of education’ attributed this to a supposed lack of interest among parents for continuing Ukrainian-language instruction.

"Supposed lack of interest" indeed.

Yes, lack of interest. Russian does not need special protection, it was ukrainian which had been under forced protection and once this protection was removed it's only natural that the ukrainian dropped.

That's precisely why such "forced protections" are needed. Besides if Russian language did not need protection, why make a big fuss about the language law that Ukrainian parliament voted down in the first place? It was never anything but a pretext.

It's not that russian speaking ukrainians really worried about language, after all, even some of the worst anti-russian pro-ukrainians in the current government refuse to speak ukrainian and use russian. Language is indeed was a pretext but it was a pretext for attack on russians. They understood that they should not expect anything good from these people who got into power if the first order of business for them was to ban russian language.

But the parliament voted down that law. The ultra-nationalists didn't get their way, and were always a minority. This is why it was a pretext, and it is hypocritical because the language rights and freedom of assembly of the few Ukrainians who remain in Crimea are now being curtailed.

 

[Frikki]

Putin's real plan is to make America Great again, obviously

He is failing. Russia is a shithole that has a smaller Economy than Brazil. Italy, New York or California. They make nothing of value except second rate military equipment and they are 100% reliant on oil. Putin is a huge failure. I don´t understand why you guys love him so much.

 

[barbos]

UN report on Human Rights in Ukraine:

179. The start of the 2016-2017 school year in Crimea and the city of Sevastopol confirmed the continuous decline of Ukrainian as a language of instruction, a phenomenon observed since Ukraine’s loss of de facto sovereignty over the peninsula in March 2014, while an increasing number of Crimean Tatar parents appear to be making use of the possibility of educating their children in the Crimean Tatar language.

180. There are 533 schools in Crimea. Of the seven Ukrainian language education institutions that existed until 2014, the Simferopol Gymnasium School is the only one remaining. This year, however, it ceased instruction in Ukrainian in the first and second grade. The spokesperson of the Crimean ‘ministry of education’ attributed this to a supposed lack of interest among parents for continuing Ukrainian-language instruction.

"Supposed lack of interest" indeed.

Yes, lack of interest. Russian does not need special protection, it was ukrainian which had been under forced protection and once this protection was removed it's only natural that the ukrainian dropped.

That's precisely why such "forced protections" are needed. Besides if Russian language did not need protection, why make a big fuss about the language law that Ukrainian parliament voted down in the first place? It was never anything but a pretext.

It's not that russian speaking ukrainians really worried about language, after all, even some of the worst anti-russian pro-ukrainians in the current government refuse to speak ukrainian and use russian. Language is indeed was a pretext but it was a pretext for attack on russians. They understood that they should not expect anything good from these people who got into power if the first order of business for them was to ban russian language.

But the parliament voted down that law. The ultra-nationalists didn't get their way, and were always a minority. This is why it was a pretext, and it is hypocritical because the language rights and freedom of assembly of the few Ukrainians who remain in Crimea are now being curtailed.

It does not matter, what matters is that it showed what kind of people these people are.

- - - Updated - - -

Putin's real plan is to make America Great again, obviously

He is failing. Russia is a shithole that has a smaller Economy than Brazil. Italy, New York or California. They make nothing of value except second rate military equipment and they are 100% reliant on oil. Putin is a huge failure. I don´t understand why you guys love him so much.

Read my post carefully again, and then again.

 

[Jayjay]

It's not that russian speaking ukrainians really worried about language, after all, even some of the worst anti-russian pro-ukrainians in the current government refuse to speak ukrainian and use russian. Language is indeed was a pretext but it was a pretext for attack on russians. They understood that they should not expect anything good from these people who got into power if the first order of business for them was to ban russian language.

But the parliament voted down that law. The ultra-nationalists didn't get their way, and were always a minority. This is why it was a pretext, and it is hypocritical because the language rights and freedom of assembly of the few Ukrainians who remain in Crimea are now being curtailed.

It does not matter, what matters is that it showed what kind of people these people are.

And what does the closure of all Ukrainian language schools in Crimea tell about what kind of people Putin's cronies are?

 

[barbos]

You need to give a link here, And certainly where he calls Hillary a hitler.

I didn't say he called Hillary a Hitler. But in one of his state of the nation speeches he compared Russia's enemies to Hitler:

Despite our unprecedented openness back then and our willingness to cooperate in all, even the most sensitive issues, despite the fact that we considered – and all of you are aware of this and remember it – our former adversaries as close friends and even allies, the support for separatism in Russia from across the pond, including information, political and financial support and support provided by the special services – was absolutely obvious and left no doubt that they would gladly let Russia follow the Yugoslav scenario of disintegration and dismemberment. With all the tragic fallout for the people of Russia.

It didn’t work. We didn’t allow that to happen.

Just as it did not work for Hitler with his people-hating ideas, who set out to destroy Russia and push us back beyond the Urals. Everyone should remember how it ended.

This is rather non-specific analogy.

In another speech, he openly called the Ukrainian government "ideological heirs of Bandera, Hitler’s accomplice". Clearly Putin has no problem throwing the H-word around.

Well, this is well deserved. New government in Ukraine do name streets after people who were alllies with Hitler and took part in killing jews and poles.

ETA: And in fact, Hillary did not call Putin a Hitler either, just made a comparison between something he is doing and what Hitler did in 1939. The point is not that historical comparisons can't be made, but that both sides make them (Russia rides the "we defeated Hitler" train every year in the victory day celebrations) and it does not imply a desire to nuke anyone.

She effectively compared Putin to Hitler.

 

[barbos]

It's not that russian speaking ukrainians really worried about language, after all, even some of the worst anti-russian pro-ukrainians in the current government refuse to speak ukrainian and use russian. Language is indeed was a pretext but it was a pretext for attack on russians. They understood that they should not expect anything good from these people who got into power if the first order of business for them was to ban russian language.

But the parliament voted down that law. The ultra-nationalists didn't get their way, and were always a minority. This is why it was a pretext, and it is hypocritical because the language rights and freedom of assembly of the few Ukrainians who remain in Crimea are now being curtailed.

It does not matter, what matters is that it showed what kind of people these people are.

And what does the closure of all Ukrainian language schools in Crimea tell about what kind of people Putin's cronies are?

It means that there are not enough people willing to send their kids to these schools. Truth is, sending your kids into ukrainian school is dumb, even in Ukraine.

 

[Will Wiley]

Of for fuck's sake! Russia is the most brutal regime in the world because they are bombing the middle East? you are the one that needs to look in the mirror. The USA has been bombing this area and killing civilians by the thousands for decades. It is the USA who has no moral high ground here. Get off your high horse and read a history book for once.

You didn't read my post clearly. I don't like our foreign policy either. I have no problem criticizing our foreign policy. Will fully supports Russian actions in Ukraine and Syria.

If that were true you would quote me. You've lost all credibility Harry. As usual you are just making stuff up

- - - Updated - - -

Putin's real plan is to make America Great again, obviously

He is failing. Russia is a shithole that has a smaller Economy than Brazil. Italy, New York or California. They make nothing of value except second rate military equipment and they are 100% reliant on oil. Putin is a huge failure. I don´t understand why you guys love him so much.

Barbos did not say he loved Putin. You really should either read his posts or quote him.

 

[Frikki]

You didn't read my post clearly. I don't like our foreign policy either. I have no problem criticizing our foreign policy. Will fully supports Russian actions in Ukraine and Syria.

If that were true you would quote me. You've lost all credibility Harry. As usual you are just making stuff up

- - - Updated - - -

Putin's real plan is to make America Great again, obviously

He is failing. Russia is a shithole that has a smaller Economy than Brazil. Italy, New York or California. They make nothing of value except second rate military equipment and they are 100% reliant on oil. Putin is a huge failure. I don´t understand why you guys love him so much.

Barbos did not say he loved Putin. You really should either read his posts or quote him.

Sure he just likes to defend every single thing he does because he sure does not love Mother Russia and Putin the new dictator.

 

[Will Wiley]

Sure he just likes to defend every single thing he does because he sure does not love Mother Russia and Putin the new dictator.

M'eh, if that were true you'd provide evidence.

 

[Frikki]

Sure he just likes to defend every single thing he does because he sure does not love Mother Russia and Putin the new dictator.

M'eh, if that were true you'd provide evidence.

Sure I have time to provide evidence to the pro Russia conspiratards. Look through his posting history, I´m not wasting my time on you.

 

[Jayjay]

I didn't say he called Hillary a Hitler. But in one of his state of the nation speeches he compared Russia's enemies to Hitler:

Despite our unprecedented openness back then and our willingness to cooperate in all, even the most sensitive issues, despite the fact that we considered – and all of you are aware of this and remember it – our former adversaries as close friends and even allies, the support for separatism in Russia from across the pond, including information, political and financial support and support provided by the special services – was absolutely obvious and left no doubt that they would gladly let Russia follow the Yugoslav scenario of disintegration and dismemberment. With all the tragic fallout for the people of Russia.

It didn’t work. We didn’t allow that to happen.

Just as it did not work for Hitler with his people-hating ideas, who set out to destroy Russia and push us back beyond the Urals. Everyone should remember how it ended.

This is rather non-specific analogy.

So non-specific analogies are harmless, specific analogies mean nuclear strikes?

Actually, I think the opposite is true. By comparing entire western Europe and America to Hitler is far more troubling than pointing out one specific similarity to Nazi Germany in 1930s (though of course neither implies an imminent pre-emptive nuclear attack).

In another speech, he openly called the Ukrainian government "ideological heirs of Bandera, Hitler’s accomplice". Clearly Putin has no problem throwing the H-word around.

Well, this is well deserved. New government in Ukraine do name streets after people who were alllies with Hitler and took part in killing jews and poles.

ETA: And in fact, Hillary did not call Putin a Hitler either, just made a comparison between something he is doing and what Hitler did in 1939. The point is not that historical comparisons can't be made, but that both sides make them (Russia rides the "we defeated Hitler" train every year in the victory day celebrations) and it does not imply a desire to nuke anyone.

She effectively compared Putin to Hitler.

Which was just as well-deserved as Putin's comment on Bandera. The specific analogy that Hillary made was Nazis granting German passports to people of German heritage living outside Germany, which is exactly what Putin was doing to ethnic Russians living outside Russia.

Heck, Putin himself has praised the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact that split Europe between Nazis and the Soviets as a good idea. The Soviet collaboration with Nazis had far worse outcomes than anything some two-bit Ukrainian nationalist hero may have done.

 

[bilby]

If that were true you would quote me. You've lost all credibility Harry. As usual you are just making stuff up

Sure he just likes to defend every single thing he does because he sure does not love Mother Russia and Putin the new dictator.

M'eh, if that were true you'd provide evidence.

Aha! The old 'hope everyone reading this post has mass amnesia' gambit.

Very bold.

Stupid; but very bold.

 

[Jayjay]

It's not that russian speaking ukrainians really worried about language, after all, even some of the worst anti-russian pro-ukrainians in the current government refuse to speak ukrainian and use russian. Language is indeed was a pretext but it was a pretext for attack on russians. They understood that they should not expect anything good from these people who got into power if the first order of business for them was to ban russian language.

But the parliament voted down that law. The ultra-nationalists didn't get their way, and were always a minority. This is why it was a pretext, and it is hypocritical because the language rights and freedom of assembly of the few Ukrainians who remain in Crimea are now being curtailed.

It does not matter, what matters is that it showed what kind of people these people are.

And what does the closure of all Ukrainian language schools in Crimea tell about what kind of people Putin's cronies are?

It means that there are not enough people willing to send their kids to these schools. Truth is, sending your kids into ukrainian school is dumb, even in Ukraine.

If your attitude is reflective of what the typical Russian thinks of Ukrainians and their language and culture, my point is proven.

 

[barbos]

It's not that russian speaking ukrainians really worried about language, after all, even some of the worst anti-russian pro-ukrainians in the current government refuse to speak ukrainian and use russian. Language is indeed was a pretext but it was a pretext for attack on russians. They understood that they should not expect anything good from these people who got into power if the first order of business for them was to ban russian language.

But the parliament voted down that law. The ultra-nationalists didn't get their way, and were always a minority. This is why it was a pretext, and it is hypocritical because the language rights and freedom of assembly of the few Ukrainians who remain in Crimea are now being curtailed.

It does not matter, what matters is that it showed what kind of people these people are.

And what does the closure of all Ukrainian language schools in Crimea tell about what kind of people Putin's cronies are?

It means that there are not enough people willing to send their kids to these schools. Truth is, sending your kids into ukrainian school is dumb, even in Ukraine.

If your attitude is reflective of what the typical Russian thinks of Ukrainians and their language and culture, my point is proven.

It's reflective what most ukrainians think too. I mean yes some ultra-nationalists would like to make you believe that ukrainian is the greatest and oldest language on Earth and ancient ukrainians dug Black Sea. But in reality it can only be used for everyday conversation, singing and maybe some literature.
There is no and not going to be technical literature in ukrainian, so if you are going into higher education you are going to use russian, especially considering number of ukrainians who go to Russia for work.
And language itself is not well defined, because there is rather large range of variants starting from basically russian and ending up with something which can be called mixture of "ukrainian" and some polish.
Current ukrainian government critters use russian privately and only use "ukrainian" when they need to trash Russia/Putin for TV which is pretty much all their public speeches consist of.
Some of them can't speak ukrainian at any level, even though they were born in Ukraine. Greatest ukrainian writer was writing in russian only.
This war with russian language shows how stupid these people are. But it happens nevertheless, people sue other people for using russian there.