Queer activists disrupt Pete Buttigieg event in San Francisco: 'We deserve better'

[Derec]

Well, I think they had a point. If you claim to advocate for LGBT folks but pursue policies that hurt poor and homelesss Americans, you're either a hypocrite or unaware of what life is like for most gay and trans people.

Can you show any evidence that most gay and/or trans Americans are either poor or homeless?

And the only way for a non-privileged person to get media attention is to be loud, so...

In contemporary America alleged "non-privilege" has become a privilege all of its own.

Yes, Buttigieg is gay. But a human being is more than the sum of one part.

Thank you Captain Obvious!

 

[Derec]

These people who protested Buttigieg were probably Sanders supporters, since many of his supporters have a reputation for being very critical of anyone who doesn't support Sanders. I could be wrong, but that's how this appears to me.

You can't assume that. It's not like Sanders himself is not being protested by activists. In 2016 a couple of #BLM radicals took over his stage and just yesterday two topless women were protesting, ironically, against milk.
[sips on my whole milk mocha]

My primary issue with Buttigieg is his lack of experience.

And yet you like far less experienced Stacey Abrams?

I'd like a much more experienced candidate who is also realistic. I do wish that Democrats would stop attacking each other so much. All they are doing is helping the Republicans, when Dems are so divided. It's one thing to argue on this small discussion board, but when it's out in open, I see that as a problem.

Iron sharpens iron. A vigorously fought over primary season helps forge a better general election candidate then a coronation.

 

[Toni]

Reminds me of when BLM stormed the stage on which Bernie was speaking.

Sanders and Buttigieg both have spotty histories with black constituents. I don’t know about Buttigieg, but Sanders has had (and still has) issues with allegations of sexism being tolerated within his staff and directed at female staffers by male staffers, as well as underpaying staff while insisting on raising the minimum wage. I believe there have been lawsuits...

No candidate is perfect nor has a perfect record. Expectations of perfection can be the enemy of the good.

So, a "spotty record" of getting arrested in the actual civil rights marches is the same as a "spotty record" of someone who has a recently questionable legislative record?

No candidate is perfect but you should still vote for the most perfect option. Expectations of perfect are not the enemy of the good, that would be uncompromising demands of absolute perfection, which does not describe Sanders anyway. You just don't start from a position of compromise, and Buttigieg is absolutely starting from a position of compromise.

Oh, don't get me wrong: I will vote for Buttigeig if he gets the nomination but he's way down my list of people I'd vote for. He certainly lacks significant experience and yes, that's a bad thing.

Sanders doesn't now and from what I can see has never had a great deal of support from black constituents. As far as marching years ago, well, that was a long time. Knowing people who were in those marches (which happened before Buttigeig was born and when I was too young to participate), I don't see that as a qualifier or disqualifier. LOTS of people who are now pretty old marched in those marches. It is wrong to hold it over the heads of candidates who are younger if they didn't march in the 60's. It's also wrong to hold it over the heads of candidates who don't use that as their big virtue signal. Plenty of people did a lot of things that were not marching--and still do.

I don't count the allegations of sexism and racism within his campaign staff as nothing. He has seemed to be slow to respond and to correct issues. I find that concerning. I see Sanders as an idealist who has never learned or cared much about practical matters such as implementation or working with others. Don't get me wrong: I'd vote for him if he gets the nomination but I hope he doesn't. He's too old for one thing.

 

[Toni]

First off, I hate it when people claim that they "deserve better". I'm sorry, people don't deserve shit. Secondly, I think that we generally give too much credence to tiny group of loud mouths.

Are you talking about those attending the Buttigieg event? Or people on this board?

I just hate the phrase. I grew up on a reservation. It's all that I heard growing up: we deserve this, we deserve that. My philosophy is if you want something, you have to fight for it. If people want better health care and a better environment, they have to fight for it. Vote. Make your vote count.

Small quibble for me. I hate hearing that we have to fight for things. I think we have to work for things. Sometimes, work hard--very hard! And don't get buried by small defeats but keep picking yourself up and going forward.

 

[Derec]

Oh, don't get me wrong: I will vote for Buttigeig if he gets the nomination but he's way down my list of people I'd vote for. He certainly lacks significant experience and yes, that's a bad thing.

At least he knows what Aleppo who the president of Mexico is.

 

[Toni]

You can't assume that. It's not like Sanders himself is not being protested by activists. In 2016 a couple of #BLM radicals took over his stage and just yesterday two topless women were protesting, ironically, against milk.
[sips on my whole milk mocha]


And yet you like far less experienced Stacey Abrams?

I'd like a much more experienced candidate who is also realistic. I do wish that Democrats would stop attacking each other so much. All they are doing is helping the Republicans, when Dems are so divided. It's one thing to argue on this small discussion board, but when it's out in open, I see that as a problem.

Iron sharpens iron. A vigorously fought over primary season helps forge a better general election candidate then a coronation.

Abrams has more experience and more relevant experience than Buttigieg.

 

[Toni]

Oh, don't get me wrong: I will vote for Buttigeig if he gets the nomination but he's way down my list of people I'd vote for. He certainly lacks significant experience and yes, that's a bad thing.

At least he knows what Aleppo who the president of Mexico is.

Anyone can make a flub and everyone does. Klobuchar has much more and much better experience than Buttigieg. She definitely has my vote over Mayor Pete.

 

[Derec]

Abrams has more experience and more relevant experience than Buttigieg.

No, she has far less. Mayor Pete was a mayor. That is executive experience, which Abrams lacks. He also is a Naval officer.
She was only a state legislator for about 10 years, and she only ever represented very safe districts (84th, 88th, and 89th) where she ran unopposed. She did not win a contested election in her life!
So how exactly is she more experienced? Because she has a vagina and darker skin?

 

[Toni]

You can't assume that. It's not like Sanders himself is not being protested by activists. In 2016 a couple of #BLM radicals took over his stage and just yesterday two topless women were protesting, ironically, against milk.
[sips on my whole milk mocha]


And yet you like far less experienced Stacey Abrams?

I'd like a much more experienced candidate who is also realistic. I do wish that Democrats would stop attacking each other so much. All they are doing is helping the Republicans, when Dems are so divided. It's one thing to argue on this small discussion board, but when it's out in open, I see that as a problem.

Iron sharpens iron. A vigorously fought over primary season helps forge a better general election candidate then a coronation.

Abrams is much more experienced and has much more pertinent experience than Buttigieg. I don't know that anybody is suggesting her as POTUS at this point, although she's been mentioned as a potential VP candidate.

 

[Derec]

Anyone can make a flub and everyone does. Klobuchar has much more and much better experience than Buttigieg. She definitely has my vote over Mayor Pete.

That was a pretty serious flub though. Yes, Klob is a senator and we are all very impressed. But I think a senator should know who the leaders of key countries are. Especially if a mayor does.

 

[Politesse]

Can you show any evidence that most gay and/or trans Americans are either poor or homeless?


In contemporary America alleged "non-privilege" has become a privilege all of its own.

Yes, Buttigieg is gay. But a human being is more than the sum of one part.

Thank you Captain Obvious!

Made no such claim. But that they are disproportionately so is a well known fact. And if being poor and disenfranchised is "privilege", privilege sucks.

 

[Toni]

Abrams has more experience and more relevant experience than Buttigieg.

No, she has far less. Mayor Pete was a mayor. That is executive experience, which Abrams lacks.
She was only a state legislator for about 10 years, and she only ever represented very safe districts (84th, 88th, and 89th) where she ran unopposed. She did not win a contested election in her life!
So how exactly is she more experienced? Because she has a vagina and darker skin?

South Bend is a pretty small city. Being mayor of a small city such as South Bend is quite a lot lower than being in a state or national legislature. She served for 10 years. The fact that she was unopposed means ???? Even in rural areas where candidates are scares, parties will mount an opponent unless they don't have any objections to the one running.


If it had been a large city such as Chicago or NYC, you might have a point but South Bend ain't large. I know South Bend. It's really small potatoes.

 

[Derec]

Abrams is much more experienced and has much more pertinent experience than Buttigieg.

No she isn't and no she doesn't. Maybe you are confusing her with somebody else?

I don't know that anybody is suggesting her as POTUS at this point, although she's been mentioned as a potential VP candidate.

If one of the septuagenarians is president, the veep might find themselves in the Oval Office sooner rather than later. That makes the running mate choice much more consequential for these candidates. Whomever they peg for veep, that person must be able and ready to be president form day one.

 

[Derec]

South Bend is a pretty small city.

It's a medium sized city of about 100k people. It's no Bloomberg's NYC by a long shot, but it's still significant executive experience. And it has about twice the population as Georgia's house districts (~54k).

Being mayor of a small city such as South Bend is quite a lot lower than being in a state or national legislature.

Not really. First off, he is the executive, not a member of a large chamber. He represents more people than she did. And he won competitive elections while she ran unopposed every time because her districts were so blue.

She served for 10 years. The fact that she was unopposed means ????

That she never won an election against somebody.

Even in rural areas where candidates are scares, parties will mount an opponent unless they don't have any objections to the one running.

In Georgia many state legislature races are unopposed. That is not a seal of approval by the other party but rather a sign of just how uncompetitive many districts are.

If it had been a large city such as Chicago or NYC, you might have a point but South Bend ain't large. I know South Bend.

And I live in DeKalb County, portions of which she represented. Alas, I never lived in any of her districts.

It's really small potatoes.

100k is not a small town. It's a medium sized city. It's think it's something like 4th largest city in Indiana. And running a city is a much bigger responsibility than sitting in a legislature with 179 others.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Anyone can make a flub and everyone does. Klobuchar has much more and much better experience than Buttigieg. She definitely has my vote over Mayor Pete.

That was a pretty serious flub though. Yes, Klob is a senator and we are all very impressed. But I think a senator should know who the leaders of key countries are. Especially if a mayor does.

I like Pete. However, I guaranty you that he can't name every foreign leader. I'll bet that he can't name even a majority. They caught Klob, good for that journalist. Doesn't mean much...

 

[Toni]

Abrams is much more experienced and has much more pertinent experience than Buttigieg.

No she isn't and no she doesn't. Maybe you are confusing her with somebody else?

Buttigieg was mayor of a small midwestern City from 2012 to 2020--so about 8 years if you are going to include all the past months of running his campaign as being mayor. South Bend is not a large city--there are literally hundreds of cities in the US of similar size or larger. Prior to serving as mayor, he had a decent if not long military career and he had a good education. He was born into an academic family and he worked on some political campaigns.

Stacy Abrams served in the GA state legislature for 10 years, six of them as minority leader. She also served on the Appropriations, Ethics, Judiciary Non-Civil, Rules and Ways & Means committee. She's also well educated and has a history of political work/activism.

Working in a state legislature, particularly in leadership positions is higher level experience than serving as mayor of a small city.

I don't know that anybody is suggesting her as POTUS at this point, although she's been mentioned as a potential VP candidate.

If one of the septuagenarians is president, the veep might find themselves in the Oval Office sooner rather than later. That makes the running mate choice much more consequential for these candidates. Whomever they peg for veep, that person must be able and ready to be president form day one.

I don't disagree. Neither would be my top choice as VP because of the level of experience that either has but I still think that Abrams has more and more relevant experience.

I think both are persons to watch and see how they develop in the future.

 

[Toni]

It's a medium sized city of about 100k people. It's no Bloomberg's NYC by a long shot, but it's still significant executive experience. And it has about twice the population as Georgia's house districts (~54k).


Not really. First off, he is the executive, not a member of a large chamber. He represents more people than she did. And he won competitive elections while she ran unopposed every time because her districts were so blue.

Maybe it's because I know South Bend and know cities of that size that I'm not very impressed with the depth or breadth of Buttigieg's political career to date. It's just really not very much. He may have potential to do more later but I'm not nearly as impressed with him as with others.

She served for 10 years. The fact that she was unopposed means ????

That she never won an election against somebody.

Because she was unopposed. I find it doubtful that GA's GOP was so unorganized that they couldn't find somebody to run against her.

Even in rural areas where candidates are scares, parties will mount an opponent unless they don't have any objections to the one running.

In Georgia many state legislature races are unopposed. That is not a seal of approval by the other party but rather a sign of just how uncompetitive many districts are.

My local representative has served for well over 20 years. He is going to be re-elected until he decides he's done being State Representative. EVERYBODY knows it. The GOP still manages to convince some poor schmuck to put their name on the ballot, and sometimes, they mount a campaign against him. But he's very popular and well liked. But different states/different political cultures, I guess.

If it had been a large city such as Chicago or NYC, you might have a point but South Bend ain't large. I know South Bend.

And I live in DeKalb County, portions of which she represented. Alas, I never lived in any of her districts.

It's really small potatoes.

100k is not a small town. It's a medium sized city. It's think it's something like 4th largest city in Indiana. And running a city is a much bigger responsibility than sitting in a legislature with 179 others.

Like I said: I know South Bend and it's pretty small potatoes. Mayors do not run cities all by themselves. Even my small city (smaller than South Bend) has a decent sized civil workforce who actually carry out running the city. Larger city mayors have more power for certain but they still don't 'run the city.' There are council persons(elected) and other officials, some elected, some civil service type who do the actual work.

Again, I don't think either are ready for prime time.

 

[Derec]

Made no such claim.

You are the one who wrote this.

Well, I think they had a point. If you claim to advocate for LGBT folks but pursue policies that hurt poor and homelesss Americans, you're either a hypocrite or unaware of what life is like for most gay and trans people.

Emphasis added.

But that they are disproportionately so is a well known fact.

Are they? All the gay people I know are rather well off.

And if being poor and disenfranchised is "privilege"

It is not.

 

[Derec]

Buttigieg was mayor of a small midwestern City from 2012 to 2020--so about 8 years if you are going to include all the past months of running his campaign as being mayor.

Again, 100k is hardly small. It's mid-sized. It's not NYC or Chicago or even Atlanta, but it's not like Chamblee, GA either.
And why is being mid-western a demerit in your eyes?

South Bend is not a large city--there are literally hundreds of cities in the US of similar size or larger.

True. There are also literally thousands of small cities in the US. South Bend is not a large city. South Bend is not a small city. It's medium.

Prior to serving as mayor, he had a decent if not long military career and he had a good education.

Harvard, Oxford (as Rhodes Scholar). Yeah, not too shabby. He also for McKinsey Group as analyst. His military service last well into his mayoral terms and in fact he took a leave of absence to serve in Afghanistan.

He was born into an academic family and he worked on some political campaigns.

That too.

Stacy Abrams served in the GA state legislature for 10 years, six of them as minority leader. She also served on the Appropriations, Ethics, Judiciary Non-Civil, Rules and Ways & Means committee. She's also well educated and has a history of political work/activism.

True.

Working in a state legislature, particularly in leadership positions is higher level experience than serving as mayor of a small city.

I disagree. Running a city is very different than just sitting in a legislature. And especially when looking at the totality of their resumes, Pete's is much more impressive and well-rounded.

I don't disagree. Neither would be my top choice as VP because of the level of experience that either has but I still think that Abrams has more and more relevant experience.

I disagree. I think it's exactly reversed.

I think both are persons to watch and see how they develop in the future.

Indeed. Abrams should have ran for Senate instead of endorsing that preacher man. I don't know what could be the next logical step for Pete if he doesn't get the nomination or get tapped for veep. Maybe governor in 2024 or Senate in 2022? Governor would be an open seat I think.

 

[Derec]

Maybe it's because I know South Bend and know cities of that size that I'm not very impressed with the depth or breadth of Buttigieg's political career to date.

I am not saying he has a very deep political career to date. But it still compares favorably to Abrams'. And his experience (not just political) is very broad for a man of his age. He worked in TV journalism, on political campaigns, on a foreign policy/security think tank, as an industry consultant, as a Naval intelligence officer and served as mayor.

It's just really not very much. He may have potential to do more later but I'm not nearly as impressed with him as with others.

It may not be much compared with other people running for president, but it is more than Abrams by a great deal.

Because she was unopposed.

Well duh!

I find it doubtful that GA's GOP was so unorganized that they couldn't find somebody to run against her.

It's not about being disorganized, it's about the district being in SW DeKalb county.

My local representative has served for well over 20 years. He is going to be re-elected until he decides he's done being State Representative. EVERYBODY knows it. The GOP still manages to convince some poor schmuck to put their name on the ballot, and sometimes, they mount a campaign against him. But he's very popular and well liked. But different states/different political cultures, I guess.

I don't know the political makeup of your district or your state legislature since you are so secretive about your location. But you know Abrams' former districts. I gave them to you. i linked to election page. it's not just that Stacey Abrams ran unopposed in all her races, but her successors have been running unopposed too. Hell, my old state house and senate districts were unopposed, but luckily my current ones aren't.

Like I said: I know South Bend and it's pretty small potatoes. Mayors do not run cities all by themselves.

Neither do governors or presidents. But there is still executive responsibility.

Even my small city (smaller than South Bend) has a decent sized civil workforce who actually carry out running the city.

Yeah, nobody was imagining Mayor Pete was filling potholes himself.

Larger city mayors have more power for certain but they still don't 'run the city.' There are council persons(elected) and other officials, some elected, some civil service type who do the actual work.

They run the city in the same sense governors run a state and presidents run the country. I did not suggest he was the absolute ruler of the fiefdom of South Bend with jus primae noctis perks.

Again, I don't think either are ready for prime time.

I don't know. Pete is holding his own better than I would have imagined six months ago. He is leading by delegates right now. And both he and Cool Grandpa Bernie are leaving Uncle Joe and Cherokee Princess Lizzie in the dust.