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"Race doesn't exist," and the myth is drowning blacks

You've presented a hypothesis that because black people have an average greater bone density, this accounts for poor swimming ability among blacks, resulting in drowning deaths.


It's an interesting idea, but you cannot provide any evidence that this is born out in reality.
What data is missing, in your opinion? What data would make the hypothesis probable?

You are trying to correlate an irrelevant statistic with anecdotal evidence. That never works.

You would need to correlate drowning deaths over the general population with the bone density of the individual and then look to see what percentage of drowned individuals had a higher than average bone density. If you found a correlation of bone density to drowning deaths, then you could look to see the make up of that particular segment of the population.
 
What data is missing, in your opinion? What data would make the hypothesis probable?

You are trying to correlate an irrelevant statistic with anecdotal evidence. That never works.

You would need to correlate drowning deaths over the general population with the bone density of the individual and then look to see what percentage of drowned individuals had a higher than average bone density. If you found a correlation of bone density to drowning deaths, then you could look to see the make up of that particular segment of the population.
So, if the body densities of drowning victims were greater on average as determined by postmortem measurements, only that can prove the point? That is respectable, though I think the existence of such data is unlikely. I expect such data is gathered only in murder investigations. The data that exists is apparently neither irrelevant nor anecdotal. Maybe 15% just isn't enough to be relevant, and it would have to be some higher value to be relevant. But, anecdotal?
 
Not really. You're either positively buoyant or not. It might be that fewer blacks are, but what you have is a little-bit-pregnant fallacy. Given positive buoyancy, leaner denser muscle better enables you to propel yourself through water, as through air. And, while most human bodies are positively buoyant, no human head (the densest part of the body) is. Hence drowned/unconscious people float face down. People drown when the head/airway is submerged and, for reasons "scientific racists" incessantly point out, whites might have to work a little harder to keep theirs above water.

Not that any of it makes any significant difference to drowning probability since it's utterly swamped by swimming ability which is overwhelmingly environmental.
How much denser above water density on average would black bodies need to be before it starts to make a difference, in your rough estimate, if not 15% more than white bodies? 50%? 100%? 200%?
Before it makes a difference to what? Drowning likelihood? Swimming ability? An unfit non-swimmer might experience some difficulty from a smaller increase than would remain negligible for a fit and able swimmer. There's no such percentage and the question assumes away the objections to the premise.
 
You are trying to correlate an irrelevant statistic with anecdotal evidence. That never works.

You would need to correlate drowning deaths over the general population with the bone density of the individual and then look to see what percentage of drowned individuals had a higher than average bone density. If you found a correlation of bone density to drowning deaths, then you could look to see the make up of that particular segment of the population.
So, if the body densities of drowning victims were greater on average as determined by postmortem measurements, only that can prove the point? That is respectable, though I think the existence of such data is unlikely. I expect such data is gathered only in murder investigations. The data that exists is apparently neither irrelevant nor anecdotal. Maybe 15% just isn't enough to be relevant, and it would have to be some higher value to be relevant. But, anecdotal?

My hypothesis as to why the bone density of drowning victims is not measured is because no knowledgeable and responsible party would take such a thing seriously. In any case, there is no reason to think bone density would be a factor in a murder by drowning, as even the lightest boned person might have trouble overcoming a felonious assault.

The bones of human body is about 15% of total body mass. It seems strange that a small percentage difference in 15% ot the total, could result in a 15% increase in the total.

You can continue attempt to preserve the archaic and discredited concept of race, as you please, but it will require you to find even more disingenuous arguments than this one. A better use of your time would be introspection to discover why you find this pursuit to be of any value to yourself.
 
How much denser above water density on average would black bodies need to be before it starts to make a difference, in your rough estimate, if not 15% more than white bodies? 50%? 100%? 200%?
Before it makes a difference to what? Drowning likelihood? Swimming ability? An unfit non-swimmer might experience some difficulty from a smaller increase than would remain negligible for a fit and able swimmer. There's no such percentage and the question assumes away the objections to the premise.
Before it starts to make a difference in drowning rates between the racial groups, to answer your question. Like, suppose bodies of black people on average had five times the densities of white people above water density. Would we expect to see a difference in drowning rates, or would the factor of body density still be eclipsed by the factor of psychological swimming ability?
 
So, if the body densities of drowning victims were greater on average as determined by postmortem measurements, only that can prove the point? That is respectable, though I think the existence of such data is unlikely. I expect such data is gathered only in murder investigations. The data that exists is apparently neither irrelevant nor anecdotal. Maybe 15% just isn't enough to be relevant, and it would have to be some higher value to be relevant. But, anecdotal?

My hypothesis as to why the bone density of drowning victims is not measured is because no knowledgeable and responsible party would take such a thing seriously. In any case, there is no reason to think bone density would be a factor in a murder by drowning, as even the lightest boned person might have trouble overcoming a felonious assault.

The bones of human body is about 15% of total body mass. It seems strange that a small percentage difference in 15% ot the total, could result in a 15% increase in the total.

You can continue attempt to preserve the archaic and discredited concept of race, as you please, but it will require you to find even more disingenuous arguments than this one. A better use of your time would be introspection to discover why you find this pursuit to be of any value to yourself.
Remember that I am not focusing on bone density. I listed three reasons for varying body densities of the races (bone density, muscle mass, and lung size). I did not include body fat, but that is another potential source. Regardless of the cause, I found that the racial difference in body densities is a confirmed fact, so that would be the most relevant data, not merely the bone densities. But, the body density would likely change from a death by drowning, so the measurement of those causal variables of body density like bone density may be the only option, and I think it is unlikely that such data would exist. If the cause of death is known to be drowning, then bone density data would not be of interest to any party related to the death, though it would be of interest to you and I.
 
So, if the body densities of drowning victims were greater on average as determined by postmortem measurements, only that can prove the point?

Even then it would be questionable.
Even that? Suppose we had an all-seeing eye and we could gather any data we like. What hypothetical data would finally make the hypothesis probable, in your opinion?
 
My hypothesis as to why the bone density of drowning victims is not measured is because no knowledgeable and responsible party would take such a thing seriously. In any case, there is no reason to think bone density would be a factor in a murder by drowning, as even the lightest boned person might have trouble overcoming a felonious assault.

The bones of human body is about 15% of total body mass. It seems strange that a small percentage difference in 15% ot the total, could result in a 15% increase in the total.

You can continue attempt to preserve the archaic and discredited concept of race, as you please, but it will require you to find even more disingenuous arguments than this one. A better use of your time would be introspection to discover why you find this pursuit to be of any value to yourself.
Remember that I am not focusing on bone density. I listed three reasons for varying body densities of the races (bone density, muscle mass, and lung size). I did not include body fat, but that is another potential source. Regardless of the cause, I found that the racial difference in body densities is a confirmed fact, so that would be the most relevant data, not merely the bone densities. But, the body density would likely change from a death by drowning, so the measurement of those causal variables of body density like bone density may be the only option, and I think it is unlikely that such data would exist. If the cause of death is known to be drowning, then bone density data would not be of interest to any party related to the death, though it would be of interest to you and I.

I have no trouble remembering your focus, and it's not bone density. You want to keep racism alive as a viable concept. Your pseudo-Heisenberg principle is a tribute to your imagination, but not your deductive faculties.

Swimming in not a natural function for human beings, in the same way it is for aquatic species, such as ducks and beavers. In any drowning death, there are so many complicating factors, none of which have any relationship to a person's bone density, muscle mass, or lung capacity.

If bone density, muscle mass, and lung capacity, were a common part of a person's vital statistics, I highly doubt there would be a correlation between them and accidental drownings.
 
Even then it would be questionable.
Even that? Suppose we had an all-seeing eye and we could gather any data we like. What hypothetical data would finally make the hypothesis probable, in your opinion?

Thing is that we need helluva clear data to infer what you want to infer. And even if we got that, what is the point, really?

If we could gather ANY data then would simply gather the answer to the question, wouldnt we?
 
Even that? Suppose we had an all-seeing eye and we could gather any data we like. What hypothetical data would finally make the hypothesis probable, in your opinion?

Thing is that we need helluva clear data to infer what you want to infer. And even if we got that, what is the point, really?

If we could gather ANY data then would simply gather the answer to the question, wouldnt we?
The point would be to either have a better understanding of the truth or to save lives from drowning. Specifically, what hypothetical data would convince you? It is a question I ask those with a dogma, to help bring awareness to the dogma.
 
Remember that I am not focusing on bone density. I listed three reasons for varying body densities of the races (bone density, muscle mass, and lung size). I did not include body fat, but that is another potential source. Regardless of the cause, I found that the racial difference in body densities is a confirmed fact, so that would be the most relevant data, not merely the bone densities. But, the body density would likely change from a death by drowning, so the measurement of those causal variables of body density like bone density may be the only option, and I think it is unlikely that such data would exist. If the cause of death is known to be drowning, then bone density data would not be of interest to any party related to the death, though it would be of interest to you and I.

I have no trouble remembering your focus, and it's not bone density. You want to keep racism alive as a viable concept. Your pseudo-Heisenberg principle is a tribute to your imagination, but not your deductive faculties.

Swimming in not a natural function for human beings, in the same way it is for aquatic species, such as ducks and beavers. In any drowning death, there are so many complicating factors, none of which have any relationship to a person's bone density, muscle mass, or lung capacity.

If bone density, muscle mass, and lung capacity, were a common part of a person's vital statistics, I highly doubt there would be a correlation between them and accidental drownings.
Drowning is caused by someone swimming, his or her head going below the surface of the water and not coming back up. The rate of such a thing happening is very much physically expected to be in part a function of body density. It really isn't complicated. Yes, there are many other things that affect drowning probability, but none of those things are expected to reverse what is expected from physics.
 
I have no trouble remembering your focus, and it's not bone density. You want to keep racism alive as a viable concept. Your pseudo-Heisenberg principle is a tribute to your imagination, but not your deductive faculties.

Swimming in not a natural function for human beings, in the same way it is for aquatic species, such as ducks and beavers. In any drowning death, there are so many complicating factors, none of which have any relationship to a person's bone density, muscle mass, or lung capacity.

If bone density, muscle mass, and lung capacity, were a common part of a person's vital statistics, I highly doubt there would be a correlation between them and accidental drownings.
Drowning is caused by someone swimming, his or her head going below the surface of the water and not coming back up. The rate of such a thing happening is very much physically expected to be in part a function of body density. It really isn't complicated. Yes, there are many other things that affect drowning probability, but none of those things are expected to reverse what is expected from physics.

Nice try.
 
Before it makes a difference to what? Drowning likelihood? Swimming ability? An unfit non-swimmer might experience some difficulty from a smaller increase than would remain negligible for a fit and able swimmer. There's no such percentage and the question assumes away the objections to the premise.
Before it starts to make a difference in drowning rates between the racial groups, to answer your question. Like, suppose bodies of black people on average had five times the densities of white people above water density.

They'd be some distinct (probably impossible) organism - i.e. not "people"

Right there is why all your threads belong in pseudoscience.
 
Before it starts to make a difference in drowning rates between the racial groups, to answer your question. Like, suppose bodies of black people on average had five times the densities of white people above water density.

They'd be some distinct (probably impossible) organism - i.e. not "people"

Right there is why all your threads belong in pseudoscience.
They may have to be another species, not that speciation of humans is out of the realm of possibility. It could happen after migration to the moon or whatever, a world with low gravity. Would a five-fold density difference above the density of water make a difference in drowning rates, in your opinion? I expect the answer is yes. If yes, then take a rough guess at a more plausible lower limit. Like, 50% before it affects drowning rates the tiniest amount?
 
They'd be some distinct (probably impossible) organism - i.e. not "people"

Right there is why all your threads belong in pseudoscience.
They may have to be another species, not that speciation of humans is out of the realm of possibility. It could happen after migration to the moon or whatever, a world with low gravity. Would a five-fold density difference above the density of water make a difference in drowning rates, in your opinion? I expect the answer is yes. If yes, then take a rough guess at a more plausible lower limit. Like, 50% before it affects drowning rates the tiniest amount?
It would depend on the anatomy of these ultra-dense extraterrestrial "black people". Perhaps they've evolved webbed appendages, gills and suchlike. Then there's the paucity of water on the moon - difficult to drown at all. I'm gonna have to give this some serious thought.
 
They may have to be another species, not that speciation of humans is out of the realm of possibility. It could happen after migration to the moon or whatever, a world with low gravity. Would a five-fold density difference above the density of water make a difference in drowning rates, in your opinion? I expect the answer is yes. If yes, then take a rough guess at a more plausible lower limit. Like, 50% before it affects drowning rates the tiniest amount?
It would depend on the anatomy of these ultra-dense extraterrestrial "black people". Perhaps they've evolved webbed appendages, gills and suchlike. Then there's the paucity of water on the moon - difficult to drown at all. I'm gonna have to give this some serious thought.
There are plenty of other possibilities for phenotypic differences, but for now we can just assume that body density is the only change, everything else remaining the same. The purpose is to test whether or not the denial of the significance of the racial body density difference as it exists is rational or merely dogmatic.
 
It would depend on the anatomy of these ultra-dense extraterrestrial "black people". Perhaps they've evolved webbed appendages, gills and suchlike. Then there's the paucity of water on the moon - difficult to drown at all. I'm gonna have to give this some serious thought.
There are plenty of other possibilities for phenotypic differences, but for now we can just assume that body density is the only change, everything else remaining the same. The purpose is to test whether or not the denial of the significance of the racial body density difference as it exists is rational or merely dogmatic.
No, the purpose is to throw in a daft sorites puzzle to distract from this:

ApostateAbe[/quote said:
That is an interesting result. It means that the body density of the average elite adolescent competitive swimmer is about equal to the body density of the average young black man.

(...)

It is an argument that body density can not be the only causal variable of drowning rates,

No, it's evidence that density variance in the range you're on about makes approximately bugger all difference to swimming ability.
never mind daft speculation about the unknowable, no one's playing, game over.
 
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