Racism in Baltimore - a pictorial

[Derec]

One of the most racist men I've ever known had an interracial marriage. His wife was white.

Impossibru. Only whites can be racist, as we have learned from Athena et al.

 

[ZiprHead]

Nothing. I said that the arresting officers were not guilty of any wrongdoing if the arrest itself was legal (knife either illegal or legal but officers still acted in good faith) because their involvement ended at the arrest itself.

I agree with this part. The rest, not so much.

 

[Trausti]

One of the most racist men I've ever known had an interracial marriage. His wife was white.

Impossibru. Only whites can be racist, as we have learned from Athena et al.

 

[Derec]

Nothing. I said that the arresting officers were not guilty of any wrongdoing if the arrest itself was legal (knife either illegal or legal but officers still acted in good faith) because their involvement ended at the arrest itself.

I agree with this part. The rest, not so much.

Which parts specifically do you not agree with? That 2nd degree murder is overcharging? (compare with this case where the hooker exhibited a much greater degree of "indifference to the value of human life" than Cesar)? Or that if "rough rides" are a tolerated practice in BPD Mosby should be going after the higher echelons of the police department, up to and including the commissioner?

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Can't be racism because East Asians are not known to have any power in any country, corporation or organization anywhere in the world.
Or maybe Asians are now honorary whites (see the Harvard thread).

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The defensiveness in this thread is overpowering.

 

[Derec]

The defensiveness in this thread is overpowering.

Defensiveness? Or actually caring about the facts of the case rather than knee jerk "they are all guilty and Mosby is a genius who should be Hillary's Attorney General!" prejudgment.

 

[prideandfall]

The defensiveness in this thread is overpowering.

so is the lack of understanding from the usual suspects of the difference between individual bias and institutional racism.

 

[Derec]

The defensiveness in this thread is overpowering.

so is the lack of understanding from the usual suspects of the difference between individual bias and institutional racism.

No, the lack of understanding is that both are forms of racism (if the bias in question is on race and not say on gender) rather than just institutional racism. Also the lack of understanding that institutional racism is not all on one side. For example, when an incoming black sheriff fires all white deputies with the intent of replacing them with blacks he is engaging in institutional racism.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The defensiveness in this thread is overpowering.

Defensiveness? Or actually caring about the facts of the case rather than knee jerk "they are all guilty!" prejudgment.

????

But we would still like a source for his doctor's orders...

 

[laughing dog]

Actually we have discussed this and the arrest most likely wasn't illegal. The officers were entitled to chase, stop and search and the knife was most likely illegal - and even if it were legal you would have to prove the arresting officers knew that at the time of the arrest.

I'm sorry, but since when is ignorance of the law, especially by the police, an acceptable excuse? If the knife was legal, then the police should have know it was legal.

Also, it's bullshit to frame the discussion of Freddy Grey's death as "racism" when half the cops charged (including the cop facing most serious charge) are black and the police department and the city are run by a black man and woman respectively. But I guess anything for the lefty favorite argument du jour no matter how poorly it fits I guess.

I don't know whether Freddie Grey's death was due in part (or in whole) to racism. But the argument that the laws or the protocols of police behavior could not be racist because the mayor and the police chief are black ignores the role of history, culture and inertia. In otherwords, at best, it is naive and ignorant.

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so is the lack of understanding from the usual suspects of the difference between individual bias and institutional racism.

No, the lack of understanding is that both are forms of racism (if the bias in question is on race and not say on gender) rather than just institutional racism. Also the lack of understanding that institutional racism is not all on one side. For example, when an incoming black sheriff fires all white deputies with the intent of replacing them with blacks he is engaging in institutional racism.

Are you trying to win the Triple Crown of derailing hobby horses?

 

[prideandfall]

No, the lack of understanding is that both are forms of racism (if the bias in question is on race and not say on gender) rather than just institutional racism.

except that not really, in the same way that having sex with a guy and then regretting it later and calling it rape doesn't make it rape.

For example, when an incoming black sheriff fires all white deputies with the intent of replacing them with blacks he is engaging in institutional racism.

i.... wow. WOW.
seriously dude, do you honestly believe that?
i mean, i was just going to crack a joke about holy shit could you possibly prove my statement right about you people not understanding what institutional racism any more clearly, but god now i'm just concerned for you if you seriously actually that crap.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I have been called "racist" for decades now by the race-baiting, condescending left. My best rebuttal to the class warfare leftists is to tell them my best man was black.

That's a rebuttal?
You can't be racist because a black man was in your wedding party?

One of the most racist men I've ever known had an interracial marriage. His wife was white.

Yeah Keith, it is a popular though highly flawed argument.

It is like a guy saying, "I can't be sexist, I married a woman."

 

[AthenaAwakened]

One of the most racist men I've ever known had an interracial marriage. His wife was white.

Impossibru. Only whites can be racist, as we have learned from Athena et al.

I would explain this again, but you seem to have so little in your life that gives you comfort, I will leave you your misconceptions.

 

[Derec]

I would explain this again, but you seem to have so little in your life that gives you comfort, I will leave you your misconceptions.

And I guess you have so little in your life that gives you comfort other than trying to belittle those that disagree with you.

 

[Derec]

except that not really, in the same way that having sex with a guy and then regretting it later and calling it rape doesn't make it rape.

Bad analogy. Redefining racism such that only white people can be racist would be analogous to redefining sexual assault such that only men can be guilty of it. And to a certain extent we see that happening at colleges when we have two people engaging in drunken but consensual sex but the man is labeled as "rapist" and the woman as "victim" even though both did exactly the same thing. See this outrageous example that happened at Occidental College.

i.... wow. WOW.
seriously dude, do you honestly believe that?

Of course, he is a head of an institution and in his official capacity engaged in racist behavior toward his employees (which cost the county millions by the way, but he is still sheriff because I guess Clayton County has enough black racists to keep electing him).

i mean, i was just going to crack a joke about holy shit could you possibly prove my statement right about you people not understanding what institutional racism any more clearly, but god now i'm just concerned for you if you seriously actually that crap.

Let me guess, it's only institutional racism when institutions discriminate against minorities? And by "minorities" I mean "non-whites", not actual minorities in the territory controlled by the institution in question (Clayton County, for example, is 63% black)

 

[Derec]

I'm sorry, but since when is ignorance of the law, especially by the police, an acceptable excuse? If the knife was legal, then the police should have know it was legal.

If we applied that standard it would mean police officers would be guilty of a crime any time a case is dismissed. What is needed for Mosby to prove that the police officers did not act in good faith. The knife was most likely illegal, but if it was legal and looked like it was illegal (due to a spring-loaded mechanism) than the arrest would not be "false imprisonment" since the officers acted in good faith.

I don't know whether Freddie Grey's death was due in part (or in whole) to racism. But the argument that the laws or the protocols of police behavior could not be racist because the mayor and the police chief are black ignores the role of history, culture and inertia. In otherwords, at best, it is naive and ignorant.

On the contrary, it sounds to me like a desperate attempt to salvage a pet hypothesis (it's all racism, man) no matter the evidence.

Are you trying to win the Triple Crown of derailing hobby horses?

The title of this thread is "Racism in Baltimore". Discussion of racism in not derailment.

 

[Rhea]

Nothing. I said that the arresting officers were not guilty of any wrongdoing if the arrest itself was legal (knife either illegal or legal but officers still acted in good faith) because their involvement ended at the arrest itself.

I agree with this part. The rest, not so much.

I don't believe this is true, though. I believe they were once again present at stop #4 when the second suspect was added only a few blocks fgrom where they arrested Gray and dragged him, complaining of pain, to the van. At stop #4, with the door open and officer Alecia White saw Gray for the first time, they all had an opportunity to notice that Freddie gray needed medical attention and they just let him die without help. That is in the presented timeline. That is part of the charges. If I'm wrong (and, of course, I could be) just show the evidence in a timeline that does not include them.

 

[Rhea]

Wow that is a disturbing reaction. Makes me feel anger. And a whole lot of empathy for young black men just walking around.

 

[laughing dog]

If we applied that standard it would mean police officers would be guilty of a crime any time a case is dismissed.

it would depend on the rationale for a dismissal.

What is needed for Mosby to prove that the police officers did not act in good faith. The knife was most likely illegal, but if it was legal and looked like it was illegal (due to a spring-loaded mechanism) than the arrest would not be "false imprisonment" since the officers acted in good faith.

Could you repeat again your education or experience in practicing law?

On the contrary, it sounds to me like a desperate attempt to salvage a pet hypothesis (it's all racism, man) no matter the evidence.

Regardless of your opinion, your response ignores the role of history, culture and inertia. As I said, it is naive and ignorant.

The title of this thread is "Racism in Baltimore". Discussion of racism in not derailment.

Allegations of racism in Georgia is a derailment in a discussion of Racism in Baltimore.

 

[prideandfall]

Bad analogy. Redefining racism such that only white people can be racist would be analogous to redefining sexual assault such that only men can be guilty of it.

but i'm not saying that, nor am i suggesting a redefinition of racism - i'm just saying that calling everything involving the interaction between two people of different skin colors "racism" makes the word racism so common and arbitrary that it becomes meaningless - in the same way that calling "consensual sex with regret later" rape reduces the power and importance of the word rape to describe a terrible act.

Let me guess, it's only institutional racism when institutions discriminate against minorities?

no, it's only institutional racism when it's describing racism built into the institution of society and culture.