Racism in Baltimore - a pictorial

[Derec]

I don't believe this is true, though. I believe they were once again present at stop #4 when the second suspect was added only a few blocks fgrom where they arrested Gray and dragged him, complaining of pain, to the van. At stop #4, with the door open and officer Alecia White saw Gray for the first time, they all had an opportunity to notice that Freddie gray needed medical attention and they just let him die without help. That is in the presented timeline. That is part of the charges. If I'm wrong (and, of course, I could be) just show the evidence in a timeline that does not include them.

Why do you think that? Do you think the arresting officers (bike cops) followed the van? Why would they do that?

 

[Derec]

it would depend on the rationale for a dismissal.

Of course. Such reason would be officers acting in bad faith. Which means Mosby doesn't have to just prove that the knife was legal but that the officers acted in bad faith when they arrested him. I think Mosby too knows that she messed up charging them but since she rushed into announcing the charges she can't drop them easily without losing face.

Could you repeat again your education or experience in practicing law?

What is yours?

Regardless of your opinion, your response ignores the role of history, culture and inertia. As I said, it is naive and ignorant.

Calling people who disagree "naive and ignorant" because your pet hypothesis won't stand scrutiny. Par for the course.

Allegations of racism in Georgia is a derailment in a discussion of Racism in Baltimore.

It's not a derailment, it's providing context. But since it doesn't refutes your ideologically motivated ideas you don't want it included in the discussion.

 

[Derec]

but i'm not saying that, nor am i suggesting a redefinition of racism - i'm just saying that calling everything involving the interaction between two people of different skin colors "racism" makes the word racism so common and arbitrary that it becomes meaningless - in the same way that calling "consensual sex with regret later" rape reduces the power and importance of the word rape to describe a terrible act.

I am not saying every interaction between two people of different skin colors is racism. That would obviously be stupid. I am just saying that there individual racism and institutional racism are both forms of racism and people of any race can be perpetrators or victims of racism.
A white person going to an Ethiopian restaurant - not racist. A white person setting Ethiopian restaurant on fire because of race of owner - racist. A black person going to a German restaurant - not racist. A black person setting a German restaurant on fire because of the race of owner - racist.
I do not see why the last thing should not count as racist just because it was comitted by a black skinned person against a white skinned one.

no, it's only institutional racism when it's describing racism built into the institution of society and culture.

Clayton County is a majority (63%) black county. Their sheriff engaged in racism against white county employees in his official capacity. Why is that not institutional racism but if a white sheriff in neighboring Henry County (55% white) did the opposite it would be?

 

[prideandfall]

Clayton County is a majority (63%) black county. Their sheriff engaged in racism against white county employees in his official capacity. Why is that not institutional racism but if a white sheriff in neighboring Henry County (55% white) did the opposite it would be?

because the office of the clayton county sheriff is not an institution, nor is the henry county sheriff for that matter.
the incident may well be shitty, stupid, and racist... but it's not an example of institutional racism, it literally doesn't fit the definition of what that term means.

per the context of the term:
Institutions are "stable, valued, recurring patterns of behavior."[1] As structures or mechanisms of social order, they govern the behaviour of a set of individuals within a given community. Institutions are identified with a social purpose, transcending individuals and intentions by mediating the rules that govern living behavior.
Institutional racism is any system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private).

institutional racism is culture-deep, society wide racial disparity that exists on a level way more profound than one douchebag at some backwater hillbilly sheriff's office.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I don't believe this is true, though. I believe they were once again present at stop #4 when the second suspect was added only a few blocks fgrom where they arrested Gray and dragged him, complaining of pain, to the van. At stop #4, with the door open and officer Alecia White saw Gray for the first time, they all had an opportunity to notice that Freddie gray needed medical attention and they just let him die without help. That is in the presented timeline. That is part of the charges. If I'm wrong (and, of course, I could be) just show the evidence in a timeline that does not include them.

Why do you think that? Do you think the arresting officers (bike cops) followed the van? Why would they do that?

The van took a circular route and it looks like what happened was that the cops saw Gray and another person, caught Gray and then later caught the person Gray was making a transaction with and the van returned to the original scene to pick up the guy Gray had dealings with.

Also it's interesting, an EMT was called to the scene but the confusion lies in why and for who since it appears to be a busy street corner.

 

[laughing dog]

Of course. Such reason would be officers acting in bad faith. Which means Mosby doesn't have to just prove that the knife was legal but that the officers acted in bad faith when they arrested him. I think Mosby too knows that she messed up charging them but since she rushed into announcing the charges she can't drop them easily without losing face.

And your analysis is backed by what training or experience in the law?

What is yours?

None. But I am not proferring legal analysis but you are. I am just trying to ascertain whether the analysis is credible or not. Would be reasonable to conclude from your evasiveness, that your legal analysis is not based on legal education or practice?

Calling people who disagree "naive and ignorant" because your pet hypothesis won't stand scrutiny. Par for the course.

I did not call anyone naive and ignorant. I called your response "naive and ignorant".

It's not a derailment, it's providing context.

Again, the OP is about Racism in Baltimore. . There is no reference to Georgia.

But since it doesn't refutes your ideologically motivated ideas you don't want it included in the discussion.

I do wince every time I see one of your ridiculous hobby horses trotted out because I think of the pain it must cause to pull it out of your ass.

 

[Rhea]

I don't believe this is true, though. I believe they were once again present at stop #4 when the second suspect was added only a few blocks fgrom where they arrested Gray and dragged him, complaining of pain, to the van. At stop #4, with the door open and officer Alecia White saw Gray for the first time, they all had an opportunity to notice that Freddie gray needed medical attention and they just let him die without help. That is in the presented timeline. That is part of the charges. If I'm wrong (and, of course, I could be) just show the evidence in a timeline that does not include them.

Why do you think that? Do you think the arresting officers (bike cops) followed the van? Why would they do that?

I think that because I read a time line earlier. The van came back to the bike cops because the bike cops arrested a second guy and the van came back to where they were. If you look at the maps you can see that "stop #4" is only about two blocks away from the original arrest.

That is what I read earlier on published timelines and maps. If you read something different, post it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

An illegal knife? I missed that detail before.

I know this is a Democrat run city in a Democrat state but...

An illegal knife? Seriously?

Run out of guns to ban? WTF...

 

[crispy]

and the knife was most likely illegal - and even if it were legal you would have to prove the arresting officers knew that at the time of the arrest.

WAT??!?!??! first, you can't just arrest people for stuff you think might be illegal, and second, officers should damn well be aware of what a legal knife is and whats not.

 

[Starman]

One of the most racist men I've ever known had an interracial marriage. His wife was white.

Impossibru. Only whites can be racist, as we have learned from Athena et al.

Derec, your humor is brilliant as it is accurate. But your efforts and mine are all in vain. The racism of Democrats, steeped in their own guilt, has been ongoing
since LBJ was president. He said, "I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years." Their race-baiting is working.

Elbert Guillory, black, and a state congressman, explains why he is Republican very articulately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_YQ8560E1w

The great gains in racial equality came long before this current wave of Democrat race-baiting, which they use both to retain
the black vote, as well as to *prove* their own moral superiority, and feel good about looking in the mirror, no matter how
terribly their actions hurt the black community.

Blacks tell blacks to wake up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4vmkagMS8Q

 

[Starman]

I did not call anyone naive and ignorant. I called your response "naive and ignorant".

"Depending on what the meaning of 'is' is."

"I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."

<snip>, spin, take things out of context, claim superior intellectualism, etc, etc, and never, NEVER admit you were wrong.
This is the playbook of the Left.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Impossibru. Only whites can be racist, as we have learned from Athena et al.

Derec, your humor is brilliant as it is accurate. But your efforts and mine are all in vain.

Effort? He's just trying to make fun of me. Or maybe Athena. Or all liberals.

You're making no effort, either. You are upset that people make what you think is a superficial judgment against you, accusing you of racism, yet your defense is pretty fucking superficial, too.

 

[laughing dog]

I did not call anyone naive and ignorant. I called your response "naive and ignorant".

"Depending on what the meaning of 'is' is."

"I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."

Lie, spin, take things out of context, claim superior intellectualism, etc, etc, and never, NEVER admit you were wrong.
This is the playbook of the Left.

I seriously doubt "the Left" has stolen your playbook.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

An illegal knife? I missed that detail before.

I know this is a Democrat run city in a Democrat state but...

An illegal knife? Seriously?

Run out of guns to ban? WTF...

Most of these knife laws have been on the books since the 1950's. As a kid it was always cool to see a kid with a switchblade because they were forbidden. (The laws were somewhat aimed at racial minorities... Surprise!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade#United_States

ETA: I love the Illinois description: "Allowed if the switchblade is a part of a school function." "When you're a Jet.."


But unfortunately we don't know the make and model of the knife, and even then the definition of "spring loaded" may be brought up and argued. Is a folding knife with a locking spring a "spring loaded" knife. Most of us would say "no", but lawyers.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

We also thought butterfly knives were illegal, but they were so cool.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Good grief. An illegal knife. I heard rumors but didn't believe them. It turns out the rumors are true. There is such a thing as an illegal knife.

I'll have to remember this during the next victim disarmament thread.

 

[thebeave]

An illegal knife? I missed that detail before.

I know this is a Democrat run city in a Democrat state but...

An illegal knife? Seriously?

Run out of guns to ban? WTF...

Most of these knife laws have been on the books since the 1950's. As a kid it was always cool to see a kid with a switchblade because they were forbidden. (The laws were somewhat aimed at racial minorities... Surprise!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade#United_States

ETA: I love the Illinois description: "Allowed if the switchblade is a part of a school function." "When you're a Jet.."


But unfortunately we don't know the make and model of the knife, and even then the definition of "spring loaded" may be brought up and argued. Is a folding knife with a locking spring a "spring loaded" knife. Most of us would say "no", but lawyers.

Yeah, I remember switchblades being illegal since I was a little kid. It was a big topic of discussion among 10 year old boys back in the early 70's. That and sniffing airplane glue. Also, M-80 explosives, though we were never really sure what those were. Also, minibikes and slingshots. Which is why its surprising to hear some people here had no idea about the illegality of switchblades, etc.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Good grief. An illegal knife. I heard rumors but didn't believe them. It turns out the rumors are true. There is such a thing as an illegal knife.

I'll have to remember this during the next victim disarmament thread.

You might want to take notice of how the gun lobby isn't really about the 2nd Amendment and more about the protecting the manufacturing and sale of guns, because in reality these knife laws could easily be repealed, but nobody cares enough to work on it. (a.k.a. not enough money coming into the coffers.)

 

[Derec]

and the knife was most likely illegal - and even if it were legal you would have to prove the arresting officers knew that at the time of the arrest.

WAT??!?!??! first, you can't just arrest people for stuff you think might be illegal, and second, officers should damn well be aware of what a legal knife is and whats not.

Police need "probable cause", not "certain knowledge" to make an arrest. Since police investigation and DA office disagree about the legality of the knife, how do you expect the cop to make a 100% accurate determination of the facts in the field, or risk getting imprisoned himself?

 

[Derec]

And your analysis is backed by what training or experience in the law?

And what legal training is a required to have an opinion on an internet forum?

None. But I am not proferring legal analysis but you are. I am just trying to ascertain whether the analysis is credible or not. Would be reasonable to conclude from your evasiveness, that your legal analysis is not based on legal education or practice?

So neither of us has legal training. Yet I have offered reasons why I think Mosby overreached whereas you try to muddy the waters by questioning my legal expertise (even though I never claimed any).

I did not call anyone naive and ignorant. I called your response "naive and ignorant".

And I call your response clinging to outdated paradigms of race which can be summed up with "it's all whiteys fault".

Again, the OP is about Racism in Baltimore. . There is no reference to Georgia.

How many nits could a nitpicker pick if a nitpicker could pick nits?

I do wince every time I see one of your ridiculous hobby horses trotted out because I think of the pain it must cause to pull it out of your ass.

Hobby horse - what left wingers on this forum call anybody who disagrees with them and posts more than twice on a particular subject.