Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You know who I feel the worst about in the Abelseth/Barnes thing? The Daughter. She didn't pick any of this, her parents did.

Well, you blamed the mom for everything because she had a fake id, so maybe the daughter had a fake id, too.

 

[TomC]

You know who I feel the worst about in the Abelseth/Barnes thing? The Daughter. She didn't pick any of this, her parents did.

Well, you blamed the mom for everything because she had a fake id, so maybe the daughter had a fake id, too.

I'd ask "Where did I do that?"

But I already know that you will vaguely mischaracterize and

well,
say things that are demonstrably false.

I've come to expect that here on this thread. So, I won't ask.
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You know who I feel the worst about in the Abelseth/Barnes thing? The Daughter. She didn't pick any of this, her parents did.

Well, you blamed the mom for everything because she had a fake id, so maybe the daughter had a fake id, too.

I'd ask "Where did I do that?"

But I already know that you will vaguely mischaracterize and

well,
say things that are demonstrably false.

I've come to expect that here on this thread. So, I won't ask.
Tom

You characterized the mother as "she got laid." We've discussed that before--to include--the obvious connotation of fun and consent. You can't backtrack on the "she got laid" comment. To add--the daughter whom you claim is a victim in all this "both sides" allegation of yours wants absolute ZERO to do with the father because she claims sexual abuse was there. That's her continued claim, even now that she is not in custody of her mother. Right?

 

[TomC]

You characterized the mother as "she got laid."

Did it happen?

Am I mischaracterizing Abelseth as "she got laid"?

Is that a fact or something else?
Tom

 

[TomC]

We've discussed that before--to include--the obvious connotation of fun and consent.

I'm not the one adding connotations. Quite the contrary.

I'm trying to stick to the very few facts available.
Very few.

Lots of vague, unsupported, accusations. Mostly from Abelseth, the party with the most to gain by lying.

Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

We've discussed that before--to include--the obvious connotation of fun and consent.

I'm not the one adding connotations. Quite the contrary.

I'm trying to stick to the very few facts available.
Very few.

Saying she got laid is not a fact because of the connotation of fun and consent. Her claim is that she was perhaps drugged and a drunken teenager anyway isn't consenting. So, for the he-said-she-said opinions, you are sticking to the statutory rapists side of it when you write that "she got laid." A more objective, less loaded way to write it would be "there was sex" and then to get into the different claims about it, rather than saying she "got laid" when maybe she was drugged and/or didn't consent. Why you don't agree with using less loaded words in your so-called facts is beyond everyone else in the thread.

Lots of vague, unsupported, accusations. Mostly from Abelseth, the party with the most to gain by lying.

That's great that you say it is "mostly from Abelseth," but the child is a minor and so she is not going to be quoted at length in various places over her claims. What we do know is that she claims he did stuff to her and there is at least some physical supporting evidence of that. Whether the brunt of claims come from Abelseth is completely irrelevant to that since now that the child is living elsewhere not in either's custody she maintains the claim against the father and wants nothing to do with him. So your objection or insistence on bringing up that most of the claims come from the mother has no bearing on what the minor is saying now. To add-your claimed sympathy for her as a completely innocent person in all this is belied by your lack of acknowledging she is now independently maintaining the claim against the father and wants nothing to do with him. If you truly believed she were completely innocent, then you'd at the very least acknowledge that this isn't a "both sides" equivalency due to the minor's maintaining these allegations against the father.

 

[Toni]

You know who I feel the worst about in the Abelseth/Barnes thing? The Daughter. She didn't pick any of this, her parents did.

Well, you blamed the mom for everything because she had a fake id, so maybe the daughter had a fake id, too.

I'd ask "Where did I do that?"

But I already know that you will vaguely mischaracterize and

well,
say things that are demonstrably false.

I've come to expect that here on this thread. So, I won't ask.
Tom

You certainly do blame Abelseth at least on equal grounds as Barnes, despite the fact that she was a minor.

See Posts:
5, 68, 153, 194, 201, 211, 266

Probably a bunch more but I'm all out of patience and interest in this topic. Throughout this thread, you have made it clear that you regard Abelseth and Barnes to be of equal responsibility when it comes to the conception of the child that resulted from the statutory rape of Abelseth. You assume many things: That Abelseth lied to get served; that they were in a bar; that she used a fake ID. None of that is actually known. What IS known is that Abelseth was 16 when Barnes 'gave her a ride home' but instead ended up raping a 16 year old drunk girl. And that you hold her equally responsible for what happened that night.

 

[TomC]

Saying she got laid is not a fact because of the connotation of fun and consent.

What?

She got pregnant. Therefore, she got laid.

Is that a question?
Tom

 

[Toni]

Saying she got laid is not a fact because of the connotation of fun and consent.

What?

She got pregnant. Therefore, she got laid.

Is that a question?
Tom

So if someone is raped, one 'got laid?'

I'm surprised you'd use that particular term given that it implies a great deal more passivity on the part of the girl than you seem to be willing to afford Abelseth.

 

[TomC]

You certainly do blame Abelseth at least on equal grounds as Barnes, despite the fact that she was a minor.

I blame scumbags.
I don't claim to blame anyone equally. Because, as I've pointed out over and over on this thread, I don't claim to know what happened.

Tom

 

[TomC]

So, if someone is raped, one 'got laid?'

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

How hard is that to understand?

I'm not the one adding connotations or unsupported allegations. I'm saying "Nobody gets pregnant without having sex"
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

So if the father impregnated the daughter when he raped her, you would also write "she got laid?"

It's a yes or no question. Yes or No?

 

[TomC]

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

So if the father impregnated the daughter when he raped her, you would also write "she got laid?"

It's a yes or no question. Yes or No?

Yes.

"Got laid" is an objective observation.

It's not a value judgement or a moral pronouncement. It's just a statement about reality. "Had sex" and "got laid" are the same thing.
Tom

 

[Toni]

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

So if the father impregnated the daughter when he raped her, you would also write "she got laid?"

It's a yes or no question. Yes or No?

Yes.

"Got laid" is an objective observation.

It's not a value judgement or a moral pronouncement. It's just a statement about reality. "Had sex" and "got laid" are the same thing.
Tom

having sex and getting laid is NOT the same thing as raping/being raped.

 

[Toni]

So, if someone is raped, one 'got laid?'

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

How hard is that to understand?

I'm not the one adding connotations or unsupported allegations. I'm saying "Nobody gets pregnant without having sex"
Tom

Of course you have done just that. You've assumed that Abelseth lied in order to get into a bar, when we do not know that she met Barnes in a bar. You have assumed that Abelseth presented a false ID in order to be served. You do not know that happened. You have asserted that Abelseth did not bring forth allegations of rape until Barnes pursued custody/child support, which is demonstrably false: She filed a report years before Barnes pursued either custody or child support.

You've repeatedly said that they were 'both scumbags' which seems to imply that you believe a 16 year old rape victim is a scum bag of equal culpability as her 30 year old rapist.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

So if the father impregnated the daughter when he raped her, you would also write "she got laid?"

It's a yes or no question. Yes or No?

Yes.

"Got laid" is an objective observation.

It's not a value judgement or a moral pronouncement. It's just a statement about reality. "Had sex" and "got laid" are the same thing.
Tom

Being raped and getting laid are not the same thing.

 

[TomC]

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

So if the father impregnated the daughter when he raped her, you would also write "she got laid?"

It's a yes or no question. Yes or No?

Yes.

"Got laid" is an objective observation.

It's not a value judgement or a moral pronouncement. It's just a statement about reality. "Had sex" and "got laid" are the same thing.
Tom

Being raped and getting laid are not the same thing.

I agree.

They aren't completely different either.
Can we agree upon that?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

So if the father impregnated the daughter when he raped her, you would also write "she got laid?"

It's a yes or no question. Yes or No?

Yes.

"Got laid" is an objective observation.

No it is not. No rape victim got laid.

 

[TomC]

No it is not. No rape victim got laid.

I know for a fact that you're wrong about this.
For a fact.

But there's not much sense on discussing it on IIDB.

Have a nice day
Tom

 

[Toni]

If someone gets pregnant, they got laid.

So if the father impregnated the daughter when he raped her, you would also write "she got laid?"

It's a yes or no question. Yes or No?

Yes.

"Got laid" is an objective observation.

No it is not. No rape victim got laid.

It is entirely possible that a rape victim had sex at other times, separate from the rape. Rape is not the same thing as getting laid or having sex. Rape is an act of force.