Rationalizing faith.

[DBT]

Faith brings comfort even as it creates division and conflict.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Faith brings comfort even as it creates division and conflict.

Faith is the religious version of fantasy. Fantasizing can be quite comforting and we all do it. The religious version typically has a superfriend that makes all the bad go away. The religious version is also communal so there is lots of reinforcement and support. Given cognitive ability you'd be a fool not to buy in.

But it's just fantasy in the end.

 

[skepticalbip]

"Faith consists of believing when it is beyond the power of reason to believe."
~ Voltaire

 

[Angry Floof]

Religious faith is a social club. It's cargo cults that get perpetuated through social dynamics.

Our human brains trick us all the time in a variety of ways. Every human being believes a mountain of false things. They just don't kill us or make us uncomfortable enough to examine them and they're not significant or important enough for our social behaviors to grab ahold of them and create a self perpetuating cargo cult out of them.

 

[steve_bank]

Religious faith is a social club. It's cargo cults that get perpetuated through social dynamics.

Our human brains trick us all the time in a variety of ways. Every human being believes a mountain of false things. They just don't kill us or make us uncomfortable enough to examine them and they're not significant or important enough for our social behaviors to grab ahold of them and create a self perpetuating cargo cult out of them.

I agree, and a nice summary.

 

[Learner]

I'm happy to be a member of this social club on the forum.

I like that it's open to everyone to join, like some of the churches - open to everyone which is, so unlike the behind-closed-doors, secrettive/segregated congregations so to speak, i.e. cults.

(btw Singing in the choir is a plus if you like to do the odd bit of singing yourself)

 

[DBT]

It could be treated as a kind of historical society/social club? Reenactment, song, dance and good fellowship with tea and scones at the end?

 

[Learner]

Funny enough I've been to a few. You don't have to be a member or believer for the tea and scones socializing.

 

[DBT]

Funny enough I've been to a few. You don't have to be a member or believer for the tea and scones socializing.

So drop the supernatural and call it a social club? Social and psychological support, charity work on behalf of the community and humanity with no expectation of heavenly reward?

 

[Angry Floof]

Funny enough I've been to a few. You don't have to be a member or believer for the tea and scones socializing.

So drop the supernatural and call it a social club? Social and psychological support, charity work on behalf of the community and humanity with no expectation of heavenly reward?

Also maybe drop the toxic and inhumane elements like authority worship, misogyny, tribalism, moral superiority, condemnation of outgroups? And maybe institute elements that actually do mitigate the stupider and meaner side of human nature rather than reinforcing it? Like maybe valuing critical thinking, empathy, inclusiveness, acceptance of ambivalence, recognizing that one's tribe is all of humanity without exception?

If only... But then if religions did this, they would disappear, and social dominance viruses like Christianity are way too virulent to become humane influences on their own. It's going to take conscious will to weaken it and immunize humanity.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Funny enough I've been to a few. You don't have to be a member or believer for the tea and scones socializing.

So drop the supernatural and call it a social club? Social and psychological support, charity work on behalf of the community and humanity with no expectation of heavenly reward?

Also maybe drop the toxic and inhumane elements like authority worship, misogyny, tribalism, moral superiority, condemnation of outgroups? And maybe institute elements that actually do mitigate the stupider and meaner side of human nature rather than reinforcing it? Like maybe valuing critical thinking, empathy, inclusiveness, acceptance of ambivalence, recognizing that one's tribe is all of humanity without exception?

If only... But then if religions did this, they would disappear, and social dominance viruses like Christianity are way too virulent to become humane influences on their own. It's going to take conscious will to weaken it and immunize humanity.

Lose the fear and insecurity and apathy. Replace them with a healthy vision of our planet and our species. That would work for me.

 

[steve_bank]

Funny enough I've been to a few. You don't have to be a member or believer for the tea and scones socializing.

So drop the supernatural and call it a social club? Social and psychological support, charity work on behalf of the community and humanity with no expectation of heavenly reward?

Well, the op is about rationalizing.

 

[steve_bank]

For those who call out the toxic aspects of relgion, do you also call out toxic movies and music?

 

[Politesse]

Funny enough I've been to a few. You don't have to be a member or believer for the tea and scones socializing.

So drop the supernatural and call it a social club? Social and psychological support, charity work on behalf of the community and humanity with no expectation of heavenly reward?

Also maybe drop the toxic and inhumane elements like authority worship, misogyny, tribalism, moral superiority, condemnation of outgroups? And maybe institute elements that actually do mitigate the stupider and meaner side of human nature rather than reinforcing it? Like maybe valuing critical thinking, empathy, inclusiveness, acceptance of ambivalence, recognizing that one's tribe is all of humanity without exception?

If only... But then if religions did this, they would disappear, and social dominance viruses like Christianity are way too virulent to become humane influences on their own. It's going to take conscious will to weaken it and immunize humanity.

Yes, it would be terrible if someone were to become obsessed with a "tribalism" and a skewed perception of their own moral superiority, and blanket condemnation of outgroups. Just terrible.

 

[Angry Floof]

For those who call out the toxic aspects of relgion, do you also call out toxic movies and music?

Yes, the Left Behind movies are not just toxic in message but offensively terrible, and the world is full of stupidstitious reinforcement songs, most of which are also really bad. I mean, The Old Rugged Cross is about ghoulish worship of human sacrifice. That song as well as that old favorite, Amazing Grace, are depressing dirges just in terms of music.

But I guess you're probably trying to compare secular art with social dominance cults like Christianity and right wing politics. But last time I checked, whatever music and art you are trying to pretend is the same thing as religion is not organized as churches and institutions that claim moral superiority or promote punishment or condemnation of out groups.

Seriously, Steve. What are you grasping for anyway?

 

[DBT]

For those who call out the toxic aspects of relgion, do you also call out toxic movies and music?

If it is present, it should be called out. Politics, ideology, sport...whatever.

 

[Angry Floof]

For those who call out the toxic aspects of relgion, do you also call out toxic movies and music?

If it is present, it should be called out. Politics, ideology, sport...whatever.

That's culture, and we do call it out.

 

[fromderinside]

No we don't Angry Floof. At least not sufficiently to diminish its taking place. It's the same rationale I posted for not simulating reality.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Also maybe drop the toxic and inhumane elements like authority worship, misogyny, tribalism, moral superiority, condemnation of outgroups? And maybe institute elements that actually do mitigate the stupider and meaner side of human nature rather than reinforcing it? Like maybe valuing critical thinking, empathy, inclusiveness, acceptance of ambivalence, recognizing that one's tribe is all of humanity without exception?

If only... But then if religions did this, they would disappear, and social dominance viruses like Christianity are way too virulent to become humane influences on their own. It's going to take conscious will to weaken it and immunize humanity.

Yes, it would be terrible if someone were to become obsessed with a "tribalism" and a skewed perception of their own moral superiority, and blanket condemnation of outgroups. Just terrible.

That's smarmy and unhealthy.

 

[Politesse]

Also maybe drop the toxic and inhumane elements like authority worship, misogyny, tribalism, moral superiority, condemnation of outgroups? And maybe institute elements that actually do mitigate the stupider and meaner side of human nature rather than reinforcing it? Like maybe valuing critical thinking, empathy, inclusiveness, acceptance of ambivalence, recognizing that one's tribe is all of humanity without exception?

If only... But then if religions did this, they would disappear, and social dominance viruses like Christianity are way too virulent to become humane influences on their own. It's going to take conscious will to weaken it and immunize humanity.

Yes, it would be terrible if someone were to become obsessed with a "tribalism" and a skewed perception of their own moral superiority, and blanket condemnation of outgroups. Just terrible.

That's smarmy and unhealthy.

I hope you are referring to the practice of filling a post with the worst invective and stereotyping filth you can think of to describe anyone who believes differently than you, then dubiously claiming the moral high ground.

Not to a polite eyeroll about the irony involved.