Reddit Bans ‘Incel’ Group for Inciting Violence Against Women

[RavenSky]

Reddit has banned the online community of “incels,” or men who blame women for their involuntary celibacy and sometimes advocate rape, as part of a new crackdown on forums that glorify and incite violence.

On Tuesday, the incel subreddit disappeared from the internet forum and was replaced with a symbol of a gavel on a red background.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/technology/incels-reddit-banned.html

The 40,000-strong ‘Incels’ community was nominally a “support group” for people who lack romantic relationships and sex. “They are involuntarily celibate or ‘incel’.” However, popular posts from the last few months include ones titled “all women are sluts”; “proof that girls are nothing but trash that use men” and “reasons why women are the embodiment of evil”.

The group’s rules didn’t explicitly ban women, but state: “Those who continuously claim there are as many female incels in the same situation as male incels will receive a warning and then a ban. Most can agree that women can be incel in some rare situations such as extreme disfigurement, but their numbers do not come close to male incels.”

The community was banned this week after Reddit updated its site-wide policy to prohibit content that “encourages, glorifies, incites or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual or group of people”.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/08/reddit-incel-involuntary-celibate-men-ban

Over time, the group became a repository of misogynistic abuse, rape threats and febrile discussion of "Chads" - men apparently not afflicted by incels' sexual insufficiency.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41926687

I don't even know where to go with this?

1. 41,000 men "largely populated by men who appear to hate women and in some cases advocate rape"? Are there really so many men who hate women so much?

2. Reddit is trying to clean up their site?

3. Is it better to leave these groups alone so they have an outlet to complain plus we know who they are; or does their confirmation bias potentially instigate some of them to act out violently when they might not have done so otherwise?

 

[Keith&Co.]

1. 41,000 men "largely populated by men who appear to hate women and in some cases advocate rape"? Are there really so many men who hate women so much?

The site, Fundies Say The Darndest Things (FSTDT.com) has an offshoot, Sexists Say..thing (SSTDT). Incels make up a good portion of the sexists, with crossovers to the Racists Say...things.

They have turned sour grapes into holy writ, with posts not only inciting violence against women, but demanding that rape not be illegal because sex is a God-given right, and the fact that women won't sleep with the incels is tantamount to genocide.

They honest expect that if they hold the door for a woman, she should come across with the sex for them.

"Chad" is the perfect, square-jawed, mighty-thewed frat boy that all women want, who does nothing but sex all day, and is so hot that women won't even protest his mistreatment of them. Unless "Chad" is black, then he's "Tyrone."

To me, the problem with giving 41,000 of these sociopaths a place to 'vent' means that every one that vents gets validated by 40,999 men who tell him he's correct in all his bile, and he should just start punching women for not sleeping with him.

These guys are so creepy even prostitutes turn them down... And they then blame the vagina.

 

[Underseer]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/technology/incels-reddit-banned.html

The group’s rules didn’t explicitly ban women, but state: “Those who continuously claim there are as many female incels in the same situation as male incels will receive a warning and then a ban. Most can agree that women can be incel in some rare situations such as extreme disfigurement, but their numbers do not come close to male incels.”

The community was banned this week after Reddit updated its site-wide policy to prohibit content that “encourages, glorifies, incites or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual or group of people”.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/08/reddit-incel-involuntary-celibate-men-ban

Over time, the group became a repository of misogynistic abuse, rape threats and febrile discussion of "Chads" - men apparently not afflicted by incels' sexual insufficiency.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41926687

I don't even know where to go with this?

1. 41,000 men "largely populated by men who appear to hate women and in some cases advocate rape"? Are there really so many men who hate women so much?

2. Reddit is trying to clean up their site?

3. Is it better to leave these groups alone so they have an outlet to complain plus we know who they are; or does their confirmation bias potentially instigate some of them to act out violently when they might not have done so otherwise?

How unsurprising to find that a lot of online sexists are losers who can't get dates.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The group’s rules didn’t explicitly ban women, but state: “Those who continuously claim there are as many female incels in the same situation as male incels will receive a warning and then a ban. Most can agree that women can be incel in some rare situations such as extreme disfigurement, but their numbers do not come close to male incels.”

Now that is interesting. This mirrors groups about violence against women who demand men be silent about violence against men. Do they say it distracts from their message? Do they seek to shut down women's rights groups like the "feminists" who seek to shut down MRA groups? The "you are not in the victim group with the bigger numbers, so you don't matter and hurt our cause by complaining" mentality of both groups is troublesome.

Over time, the group became a repository of misogynistic abuse, rape threats and febrile discussion of "Chads" - men apparently not afflicted by incels' sexual insufficiency.

That's interesting. A support group for "incels" gets hijacked by misogynists. I imagine that is a serious risk for any such group. I wonder if there is any significant push back against that, by the guys who don't hate women but are simply "incel" as they say.

1. 41,000 men "largely populated by men who appear to hate women and in some cases advocate rape"? Are there really so many men who hate women so much?

Lets not presume all 41,000 men hate women. The group started with their "incel" concept. Equating that itself with hating women would be like equating a support group for troubled women with hating men. The story here is the hijacking of the group and it being shut down because of it.

3. Is it better to leave these groups alone so they have an outlet to complain plus we know who they are; or does their confirmation bias potentially instigate some of them to act out violently when they might not have done so otherwise?

Misogyny and violence against women should be fought at every turn. But the base idea for the group of "incels" is fine, and we should probably feel some compassion for these guys. There really are guys who are socially inept or ugly or poor who can't get any companionship in their lives from women. Some will argue that prostitution shouldn't be legal (the only outlet these guys may have for companionship, fake as it may be), but I see no basis for denying them a support group. Just need to encourage it to push back against misogyny.

 

[Derec]

Typical biased censorship. Reddit is not banning feminazi groups at the same time.

- - - Updated - - -

How unsurprising to find that a lot of online sexists are losers who can't get dates.

How unsurprising that a lot of fifth columnist men who see nothing wrong with women getting away with murder can get dates.

And women are strange creatures when it comes to choosing partners. Very picky on some criteria, but will date losers, dums, abusers very often. Just read this tale told by LordKirian about a neighbor even more of a loser than he himself is and who nevertheless has a girlfriend.

He's a sad sort. Loner. No real friends. Lives with his parents and is approaching his mid-thirties. Drug problems. Bitchy mentally ill girlfriend who mentally and emotionally abuses him. Accomplishes nothing.

Women are imponderable creatures.

 

[KeepTalking]

Typical biased censorship. Reddit is not banning feminazi groups at the same time.

Typical hobbyhorse.

Please provide evidence that there are "feminazi" groups on Reddit advocating violence against men.

 

[Derec]

Please provide evidence that there are "feminazi" groups on Reddit advocating violence against men.

r/feminist is by invitation only, which means you have to have some man-hating credentials first.

But there is much contemporary feminism that is very hostile to men.

 

[sharon45]

1. 41,000 men "largely populated by men who appear to hate women and in some cases advocate rape"? Are there really so many men who hate women so much?

I don't find it unusual, yet nobody is going to know how realistic this exact figure is from the actual site.

3. Is it better to leave these groups alone so they have an outlet to complain plus we know who they are; or does their confirmation bias potentially instigate some of them to act out violently when they might not have done so otherwise?

It is up to the specific sites to govern themselves. We already easily know how bad ideas and behavior can spread like a contagious disease.

 

[sharon45]

And women are strange creatures when it comes to choosing partners. Very picky on some criteria, but will date losers, dums, abusers very often. Just read this tale told by LordKirian about a neighbor even more of a loser than he himself is and who nevertheless has a girlfriend.

Both sexes can be listed under this column.

He's a sad sort. Loner. No real friends. Lives with his parents and is approaching his mid-thirties. Drug problems. Bitchy mentally ill girlfriend who mentally and emotionally abuses him. Accomplishes nothing.

Women are imponderable creatures.

Again, both sexes aren't easily generalized.

 

[KeepTalking]

Please provide evidence that there are "feminazi" groups on Reddit advocating violence against men.

r/feminist is by invitation only, which means you have to have some man-hating credentials first.

But there is much contemporary feminism that is very hostile to men.

Translation: "No, I don't have any evidence that there are feminist Reddit groups advocating violence against men, but please allow me to toss this red herring out just in case it might distract someone."

Pretty much what I thought.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I very much doubt anything more than a tiny fraction of the group actually advocated rape. They were probably vocal, though. 41,000 members doesn't mean 41,000 people posting.

I also suspect that they're right that there aren't nearly as many females in that boat--plenty of guys will fuck anything that lets them, an offputting personality won't cause celibacy.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

My hairdresser says "Good looking women have life the easiest. Ugly women have it hardest. Men are in the middle".

 

[LordKiran]

Typical biased censorship. Reddit is not banning feminazi groups at the same time.

- - - Updated - - -

How unsurprising to find that a lot of online sexists are losers who can't get dates.

How unsurprising that a lot of fifth columnist men who see nothing wrong with women getting away with murder can get dates.

And women are strange creatures when it comes to choosing partners. Very picky on some criteria, but will date losers, dums, abusers very often. Just read this tale told by LordKirian about a neighbor even more of a loser than he himself is and who nevertheless has a girlfriend.

He's a sad sort. Loner. No real friends. Lives with his parents and is approaching his mid-thirties. Drug problems. Bitchy mentally ill girlfriend who mentally and emotionally abuses him. Accomplishes nothing.

Women are imponderable creatures.

I really get under your skin, don't I?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

On the bright side, though, their whole thing is about how they're oppressed and everyone is out to get them. This allows them some very positive validation for their worldview.

 

[sharon45]

My hairdresser says "Good looking women have life the easiest. Ugly women have it hardest. Men are in the middle".

What, good-looking men don't really count nearly as much? I think beauty can be quite an edge for both sexes.

 

[laughing dog]

1. 41,000 men "largely populated by men who appear to hate women and in some cases advocate rape"? Are there really so many men who hate women so much?

In the US in 2016 there were almost 157 million men. 41,000 is about 0.026% of that total.

We have posters in these fora who routinely offer up apologia for rape, claim that statutory rape is "trivial", and generally depict woman in demeaning terms.

I am sad to say that not only am I not surprised at the number, I think it is rather low.

 

[beero1000]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/technology/incels-reddit-banned.html

The 40,000-strong ‘Incels’ community was nominally a “support group” for people who lack romantic relationships and sex. “They are involuntarily celibate or ‘incel’.” However, popular posts from the last few months include ones titled “all women are sluts”; “proof that girls are nothing but trash that use men” and “reasons why women are the embodiment of evil”.

The group’s rules didn’t explicitly ban women, but state: “Those who continuously claim there are as many female incels in the same situation as male incels will receive a warning and then a ban. Most can agree that women can be incel in some rare situations such as extreme disfigurement, but their numbers do not come close to male incels.”

The community was banned this week after Reddit updated its site-wide policy to prohibit content that “encourages, glorifies, incites or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual or group of people”.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/08/reddit-incel-involuntary-celibate-men-ban

Over time, the group became a repository of misogynistic abuse, rape threats and febrile discussion of "Chads" - men apparently not afflicted by incels' sexual insufficiency.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41926687

I don't even know where to go with this?

1. 41,000 men "largely populated by men who appear to hate women and in some cases advocate rape"? Are there really so many men who hate women so much?

2. Reddit is trying to clean up their site?

3. Is it better to leave these groups alone so they have an outlet to complain plus we know who they are; or does their confirmation bias potentially instigate some of them to act out violently when they might not have done so otherwise?

Reddit doesn't really work like that. People will subscribe to subreddits and then forget about them, or subscribe and never participate, or subscribe out of morbid curiousity. So the 40k subscribers aren't necessarily represented well by the much smaller number of active posters. As an example, r/IncelTears is a subreddit specifically for making fun of r/incels and has 34000 subscribers.

Reddit has banned subreddits before and I remember seeing an article saying that it actually works, that without the community of active posters egging each other on, they lose steam and fade away.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Reddit doesn't really work like that. People will subscribe to subreddits and then forget about them, or subscribe and never participate, or subscribe out of morbid curiousity. So the 40k subscribers aren't necessarily represented well by the much smaller number of active posters. As an example, r/IncelTears is a subreddit specifically for making fun of r/incels and has 34000 subscribers.

Reddit has banned subreddits before and I remember seeing an article saying that it actually works, that without the community of active posters egging each other on, they lose steam and fade away.

Look at this board. We have 1153 members--but only 20% have visited in the last month and less than half have visited in the last year. Just over half have ever posted anything and less than half have posted more than one message. The longer a forum has been around the more deadwood accumulates.

 

[Derec]

claim that statutory rape is "trivial",

Allegations of so-called "statutory rape" from 38 years ago? You betcha that's trivial.

Also, the very term "statutory rape" implies that having consensual sex with somebody below an arbitrary line (sometimes as high as 18) is somehow tantamount to actual rape is, in my opinion, insane. It's also pretty unique to US as far as I know.
All such inflationary treatment of the term "rape" does is trivialize victims of actual rape.

 

[laughing dog]

claim that statutory rape is "trivial",

Allegations of so-called "statutory rape" from 38 years ago? You betcha that's trivial.

Also, the very term "statutory rape" implies that having consensual sex with somebody below an arbitrary line (sometimes as high as 18) is somehow tantamount to actual rape is, in my opinion, insane. It's also pretty unique to US as far as I know.
All such inflationary treatment of the term "rape" does is trivialize victims of actual rape.

Thank you for reinforcing my point that "We have posters in these fora who routinely offer up apologia for rape, claim that statutory rape is "trivial", and generally depict woman in demeaning terms."