Religion is still the biggest obstacle to progress in the U.S.

[southernhybrid]

How big is the ‘God gap’ between Republicans and Democrats?

80% of Trump voters are Christian, 40% of Harris voters are

www.deseret.com

The obvious difference between Trump supporters and others is religion. It dominates US politics. I think it prevents us from seriously debating the issues. If you have god in your side, you can’t be wrong and debate is cut off. We can’t have universal healthcare because god doesn’t approve. Same with taxes on billionaires.

It’s why I argue that Christianity is fundamentally an evil religion hell bent on domination and control of us and the ultimate destruction of our liberties. After all they have god on their side.

I'd say this is kind of just throwing everything out with the water, including the tub. "Evangelical Christianity" has proven to be nothing more than the uglier sides of organized religion. But all of Christianity? Come on, that is an absurd broad brush.

I see us at an inflection point in history.

We might be at an inflection point, but it isn't Christianity that is the issue, it is the evangelical Christians that helped raise Trump to power because he represents the ugliest sides of Yahweh in the Tanakh.

The nones are a growing group that they actually threaten the future of Christianity. Christians are reacting in an authoritarian way.

Conservative Christians are. They want life to prior to 1950s. Women in the home, those people to be quiet. Meanwhile the Libertarians want things back to the late 19th century, back before the 14th Amendment was applied to states and Executive Branch regulations didn't exist.

When the vast majority were Christians, they could safely debate other issues as all were on the ultimate side of god. Not anymore. The question is whether the growth of the nones will continue unabated or whether the Christians will enable a takeover of the state sufficient to force people back.

Christians voted about 60 - 40 for Trump. White Voters 57 - 42 for Trump. If we are going to toss Christians out, probably need to through the whites out with the water too?

I was going to say something like this earlier this morning but didn't have time. Plus, there are a small percentage of evangelicals who despise Trump and support the SCS. My late mother was one of them. I will never understand how she converted to evangelicalism in her 20s, but she always voted for Dems and was very upset when I told her Trump was president during her early years of dementia. That was during his first term. I can't imagine who upset she would be if she knew he got a second term. I consider the liberal Christians to be allies. Every decent Christian I know voted for Harris and thinks Trump is ruining the country. We should never make generalizations about any group of people, but I do agree that the majority of evangelicals are a big problem when it comes to politics.

 

[Bomb#20]

My point about billionaires is not that they should or shouldn’t be taxed, or at what rate, but that the right has co-opted religion so that they can effectively cut off debate. God is on the side of billionaires. How dare you say billionaires should have to pay more taxes! God does not approve! Same with abortion rights and a host of other rights.

So what evidence do you have for any of that? Who can you quote saying "God is on the side of billionaires. How dare you say billionaires should have to pay more taxes! God does not approve!", or anything equivalent? And "effectively cut off debate"?!? People argue for higher taxes on billionaires so much it's tedious! What harm can you show Christians inflict on anyone for debating billionaire tax? Likewise the rest -- what harm can you show they inflict on anyone for debating abortion rights or the other rights they're against?

 

[Bomb#20]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

True; but highly relevant to the question I was answering: "The question is whether the growth of the nones will continue unabated or whether the Christians will enable a takeover of the state sufficient to force people back." Yes, our growth will continue unabated. The hypothesis that taking over the state and restricting abortion and legalizing discrimination against gays and whatnot are somehow going to magically cause unbelievers to start believing in Christianity again is fanciful. We'll simply chafe under their rule until we're numerous enough to muster the political power to kick them out.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Well I'm glad that's settled then. Most people here agree Islam isn't a great religion either and no one will ever ask the same question that's been answered repeatedly again.

 

[SLD]

How big is the ‘God gap’ between Republicans and Democrats?

80% of Trump voters are Christian, 40% of Harris voters are

www.deseret.com

The obvious difference between Trump supporters and others is religion. It dominates US politics. I think it prevents us from seriously debating the issues. If you have god in your side, you can’t be wrong and debate is cut off. We can’t have universal healthcare because god doesn’t approve. Same with taxes on billionaires.

It’s why I argue that Christianity is fundamentally an evil religion hell bent on domination and control of us and the ultimate destruction of our liberties. After all they have god on their side.

I'd say this is kind of just throwing everything out with the water, including the tub. "Evangelical Christianity" has proven to be nothing more than the uglier sides of organized religion. But all of Christianity? Come on, that is an absurd broad brush.

I see us at an inflection point in history.

We might be at an inflection point, but it isn't Christianity that is the issue, it is the evangelical Christians that helped raise Trump to power because he represents the ugliest sides of Yahweh in the Tanakh.

The nones are a growing group that they actually threaten the future of Christianity. Christians are reacting in an authoritarian way.

Conservative Christians are. They want life to prior to 1950s. Women in the home, those people to be quiet. Meanwhile the Libertarians want things back to the late 19th century, back before the 14th Amendment was applied to states and Executive Branch regulations didn't exist.

When the vast majority were Christians, they could safely debate other issues as all were on the ultimate side of god. Not anymore. The question is whether the growth of the nones will continue unabated or whether the Christians will enable a takeover of the state sufficient to force people back.

Christians voted about 60 - 40 for Trump. White Voters 57 - 42 for Trump. If we are going to toss Christians out, probably need to through the whites out with the water too?

I think those voters are pretty much one and the same. I say it’s primarily due to their religious beliefs and not simply that they are racists, although they may be that as well.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How big is the ‘God gap’ between Republicans and Democrats?

80% of Trump voters are Christian, 40% of Harris voters are

www.deseret.com

The obvious difference between Trump supporters and others is religion. It dominates US politics. I think it prevents us from seriously debating the issues. If you have god in your side, you can’t be wrong and debate is cut off. We can’t have universal healthcare because god doesn’t approve. Same with taxes on billionaires.

It’s why I argue that Christianity is fundamentally an evil religion hell bent on domination and control of us and the ultimate destruction of our liberties. After all they have god on their side.

I'd say this is kind of just throwing everything out with the water, including the tub. "Evangelical Christianity" has proven to be nothing more than the uglier sides of organized religion. But all of Christianity? Come on, that is an absurd broad brush.

I see us at an inflection point in history.

We might be at an inflection point, but it isn't Christianity that is the issue, it is the evangelical Christians that helped raise Trump to power because he represents the ugliest sides of Yahweh in the Tanakh.

The nones are a growing group that they actually threaten the future of Christianity. Christians are reacting in an authoritarian way.

Conservative Christians are. They want life to prior to 1950s. Women in the home, those people to be quiet. Meanwhile the Libertarians want things back to the late 19th century, back before the 14th Amendment was applied to states and Executive Branch regulations didn't exist.

When the vast majority were Christians, they could safely debate other issues as all were on the ultimate side of god. Not anymore. The question is whether the growth of the nones will continue unabated or whether the Christians will enable a takeover of the state sufficient to force people back.

Christians voted about 60 - 40 for Trump. White Voters 57 - 42 for Trump. If we are going to toss Christians out, probably need to through the whites out with the water too?

I think those voters are pretty much one and the same. I say it’s primarily due to their religious beliefs and not simply that they are racists, although they may be that as well.

Religion is the inspiration for goodness and the excuse for evil.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Religion is the inspiration for goodness

(Supposedly).

 

[Colonel Sanders]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

And where is this "fact" resourced from?

To me it seems they're as numerous as ever and more fervent than at any time since... well, a long time ago. I remember 25 years ago that atheists on the internet were predicting a precipitous drop in god-belief and therefore would become a marginalized, less powerful group by this time. They keep this going by sending their kids to Christian schools and recruiting them to be cool for Christ. These kids are then sent off on missions (see Shiny Happy People).

Christianity is stronger than ever in America and it's at a level of activism that's stopped and even taken away rights.

Finally, not that it's never had fucked up leaders, but look no further than Trump to see how twisted they've become en masse.

ETA: Not for nothin', but I got banned from a sports forum for saying that religious belief isn't required for a quarterback to be a successful leader. Okay fine, it wasn't as innocuous as that, but... it just pissed me off.

 

[thebeave]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

And where is this "fact" resourced from?

To me it seems they're as numerous as ever and more fervent than at any time since... well, a long time ago. I remember 25 years ago that atheists on the internet were predicting a precipitous drop in god-belief and therefore would become a marginalized, less powerful group by this time. They keep this going by sending their kids to Christian schools and recruiting them to be cool for Christ. These kids are then sent off on missions (see Shiny Happy People).

Christianity is stronger than ever in America and it's at a level of activism that's stopped and even taken away rights.

Finally, not that it's never had fucked up leaders, but look no further than Trump to see how twisted they've become en masse.

ETA: Not for nothin', but I got banned from a sports forum for saying that religious belief isn't required for a quarterback to be a successful leader. Okay fine, it wasn't as innocuous as that, but... it just pissed me off.

That decline seems pretty accurate:

Decline of Christianity in the U.S. Has Slowed, May Have Leveled Off

It went from 78% in 2007 to about 62% in 2022. That amounts to a 1% per year decline. It does seem to be leveling off though, the last few years. Islam is increasing in the same period, though it is still small overall (1% range).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

And where is this "fact" resourced from?

To me it seems they're as numerous as ever and more fervent than at any time since... well, a long time ago. I remember 25 years ago that atheists on the internet were predicting a precipitous drop in god-belief and therefore would become a marginalized, less powerful group by this time. They keep this going by sending their kids to Christian schools and recruiting them to be cool for Christ. These kids are then sent off on missions (see Shiny Happy People).

Christianity is stronger than ever in America and it's at a level of activism that's stopped and even taken away rights.

I don't know if that is quite accurate. Christianity has been up and down in the US for centuries. There would be trends upward during the Great Awakenings (which started well before the US even formed!) and then trends downward. Right now, strongly conservative Christianity is on the rise, but I wouldn't say that it was as strong as it ever has been in the US. With people like Vance, I was quite caught by surprise at the rise in white conservative Catholicism.

God isn't dead, but more and more people are identifying as deists or spiritual but not dogmatic.

Finally, not that it's never had fucked up leaders, but look no further than Trump to see how twisted they've become en masse.

After dealing and listening to all of the whining about honor how bad of a person Clinton was, to the point we get George W. Bush as President for 8 fucking years, to see the exact same teeth gnashers wearing Trump garb, donating hard earned wages to that phoney makes me want to violently throw up.

ETA: Not for nothin', but I got banned from a sports forum for saying that religious belief isn't required for a quarterback to be a successful leader. Okay fine, it wasn't as innocuous as that, but... it just pissed me off.

Matt Ryan always says, "Jesus got me sacked on that last drive in Super Bowl LI. We would have been in field goal range otherwise, but no, Jesus caused the protection to fail and I was sacked."

ETA... updated Super Bowl.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

And where is this "fact" resourced from?

To me it seems they're as numerous as ever and more fervent than at any time since... well, a long time ago. I remember 25 years ago that atheists on the internet were predicting a precipitous drop in god-belief and therefore would become a marginalized, less powerful group by this time. They keep this going by sending their kids to Christian schools and recruiting them to be cool for Christ. These kids are then sent off on missions (see Shiny Happy People).

Christianity is stronger than ever in America and it's at a level of activism that's stopped and even taken away rights.

Finally, not that it's never had fucked up leaders, but look no further than Trump to see how twisted they've become en masse.

ETA: Not for nothin', but I got banned from a sports forum for saying that religious belief isn't required for a quarterback to be a successful leader. Okay fine, it wasn't as innocuous as that, but... it just pissed me off.

That decline seems pretty accurate:

Decline of Christianity in the U.S. Has Slowed, May Have Leveled Off

It went from 78% in 2007 to about 62% in 2022. That amounts to a 1% per year decline. It does seem to be leveling off though, the last few years. Islam is increasing in the same period, though it is still small overall (1% range).

That's great! It's still irrelevant.

 

[Bomb#20]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

And where is this "fact" resourced from?

To me it seems they're as numerous as ever and more fervent than at any time since... well, a long time ago. I remember 25 years ago that atheists on the internet were predicting a precipitous drop in god-belief and therefore would become a marginalized, less powerful group by this time. They keep this going by sending their kids to Christian schools and recruiting them to be cool for Christ. These kids are then sent off on missions (see Shiny Happy People).

Christianity is stronger than ever in America

25 years ago mainstream Democratic politicians were still saying they were against same-sex marriage. A hundred years ago a guy got fined for teaching evolution.

and it's at a level of activism that's stopped and even taken away rights.

They're going down. Can't expect them to go down without a fight.

...look no further than Trump to see how twisted they've become en masse.

That's a confluence of factors. The 1% a year is coming off the less fervent end of the scale, leaving a higher concentration of fervor behind. Plurality voting in primaries means a guy 2/3 of a party reject can win anyway when more moderate candidates split the vote. The Republican party has long been a strange bedfellow alliance of rich businessmen with Joe Six-pack, and Joe's been at the wheel for a while. And the Democrats saw fit to run the candidate with the highest negatives in living memory.

ETA: Not for nothin', but I got banned from a sports forum for saying that religious belief isn't required for a quarterback to be a successful leader.

Bummer, man. Private forum owners can do as they please. Run by a Christian?

Okay fine, it wasn't as innocuous as that...

Heh.

 

[Elixir]

Losing 1% of its adherents per year, it will take Christianity about 70 years to cut its numbers in half. We can’t wait that long.
We will need a bizarro-world Alt-Trump to genocide them, if we want to free ourselves from JDS (Jesus Derangement Syndrome) before the next world war.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

And where is this "fact" resourced from?

To me it seems they're as numerous as ever and more fervent than at any time since... well, a long time ago. I remember 25 years ago that atheists on the internet were predicting a precipitous drop in god-belief and therefore would become a marginalized, less powerful group by this time. They keep this going by sending their kids to Christian schools and recruiting them to be cool for Christ. These kids are then sent off on missions (see Shiny Happy People).

Christianity is stronger than ever in America

25 years ago mainstream Democratic politicians were still saying they were against same-sex marriage. A hundred years ago a guy got fined for teaching evolution.

17 years ago Obama said he was against it *wink* in the Presidential debate. Of course, watching Rent today carries a much different weight than it did when it first came out and that had little to do with religion.

...look no further than Trump to see how twisted they've become en masse.

That's a confluence of factors. The 1% a year is coming off the less fervent end of the scale, leaving a higher concentration of fervor behind.

Evidence? On the surface I see generational change in those numbers, not intensity change.

 

[bilby]

ETA: Not for nothin', but I got banned from a sports forum for saying that religious belief isn't required for a quarterback to be a successful leader. Okay fine, it wasn't as innocuous as that, but... it just pissed me off.

 

[bilby]

On the surface I see generational change in those numbers, not intensity change.

When Christianity collapsed in the UK in the 1950s-1979s, the amount of pushback from the church in its desparate struggle to hold on to power was huge. Their focus was on holding the levers of power, even after their grassroots support had gone, and on claiming popular support that didn't exist, thereby hiding their decline, particularly from their remaining adherents. And the decline wasn't uniform; Some regions held out a lot longer than others, with population density as the most obvious driver - the densest populations went secular first and fastest. Many rural Englanders still go to church on Sunday. Only nonogenarians go to church weekly in the cities; The rest go for funerals and weddings, so as not to upset grandma.

I see something similar happening in the US.

 

[Playball40]

How big is the ‘God gap’ between Republicans and Democrats?

80% of Trump voters are Christian, 40% of Harris voters are

www.deseret.com

The obvious difference between Trump supporters and others is religion. It dominates US politics. I think it prevents us from seriously debating the issues. If you have god in your side, you can’t be wrong and debate is cut off. We can’t have universal healthcare because god doesn’t approve. Same with taxes on billionaires.

It’s why I argue that Christianity is fundamentally an evil religion hell bent on domination and control of us and the ultimate destruction of our liberties. After all they have god on their side.

I'd say this is kind of just throwing everything out with the water, including the tub. "Evangelical Christianity" has proven to be nothing more than the uglier sides of organized religion. But all of Christianity? Come on, that is an absurd broad brush.

I see us at an inflection point in history.

We might be at an inflection point, but it isn't Christianity that is the issue, it is the evangelical Christians that helped raise Trump to power because he represents the ugliest sides of Yahweh in the Tanakh.

The nones are a growing group that they actually threaten the future of Christianity. Christians are reacting in an authoritarian way.

Conservative Christians are. They want life to prior to 1950s. Women in the home, those people to be quiet. Meanwhile the Libertarians want things back to the late 19th century, back before the 14th Amendment was applied to states and Executive Branch regulations didn't exist.

When the vast majority were Christians, they could safely debate other issues as all were on the ultimate side of god. Not anymore. The question is whether the growth of the nones will continue unabated or whether the Christians will enable a takeover of the state sufficient to force people back.

Christians voted about 60 - 40 for Trump. White Voters 57 - 42 for Trump. If we are going to toss Christians out, probably need to through the whites out with the water too?

Tossed out of politics? Yes. Tossed out of government? Yes. It shouldn't be there to begin with.

 

[Playball40]

"Christianity is bleeding believers at one percent a year." OK, irrelevant to whether or not they have power right now and are doing harm right now.

And where is this "fact" resourced from?

To me it seems they're as numerous as ever and more fervent than at any time since... well, a long time ago. I remember 25 years ago that atheists on the internet were predicting a precipitous drop in god-belief and therefore would become a marginalized, less powerful group by this time. They keep this going by sending their kids to Christian schools and recruiting them to be cool for Christ. These kids are then sent off on missions (see Shiny Happy People).

Christianity is stronger than ever in America and it's at a level of activism that's stopped and even taken away rights.

Finally, not that it's never had fucked up leaders, but look no further than Trump to see how twisted they've become en masse.

ETA: Not for nothin', but I got banned from a sports forum for saying that religious belief isn't required for a quarterback to be a successful leader. Okay fine, it wasn't as innocuous as that, but... it just pissed me off.

Ronny Reagan opened that flood gate

 

[BH]

It’s why I argue that Christianity is fundamentally an evil religion

What do you think of Islam?

I think Islam is just peachy.

 

[BH]

I dont know about other Christian denominations but I was raised Church of Christ. Thirty years ago that denomination estimated it had 1.6 million members in the US. Today they estimate themselves to be about a million. I attribute this to the internet and easy access to information. The Church of Christ does not go back to AD 33 but to Alexander Campbell in 1830, or to be more technical to about 1900 when it split from the Disciples of Christ over using musical instruments and missionary societies and other shit. When a lot of Church of Christ people found out about this they left and were very pissed.