Religious arguments and analogies that really bother you

[humbleman]

...but lifts up his eyes to the idols and commits abomination

Oh, I see, idolatry is the abomination.

Any chance you could indicate what part of the above post this is meant as a response to?

It's easy to explain.

If other sins are also considered an abomination, this fact won't excuse any one of the whole in particular.

 

[Keith&Co.]

While I was out of the office for surgery, someone took over one of my collateral duties.
They appear to have lost about 12 years of records. Turns out they just filed it in the completely wrong place on the completely inappropriate server.
But when I first went to access the data where it was supposed to be (and has been for about 13 years), I was nonplussed to see the big empty nothing where data should be.
While looking for it, I mumbled, 'No! No, no, no, no, no!' and 'Please be here! Or here? Okay, here?"

Nimrod asked who I was praying to.

"It's not a prayer. A 'prayer' would mean that I believed an intelligence with supernatural power to order the universe, and alter reality, was inclined to intercede on my behalf as my sphincter clenched tight enough to a wooden dowel."

"But," he pointed out, "you still asked for help. That means you're not an atheist. It's human nature to pray for help in a crisis."

"IT is," I agreed. "It's also human nature to try to negotiate with a vending machine to please, please, please take my not-crisp dollar bill so I can have a soda. It's human nature to try to give orders to my car when it won't start right away. And human nature to punish the hammer while my thumb bleeds. And I have a very clear picture in my mind that my teddy bear is pretty jealous. So if I cuddle my and my wife's bears at the same time, Tapioca has to be closer to me than Cocoa or he gets upset." He was rapidly backing out of my cube at this point.
I followed him rather than raise my voice.
"But, push comes to shove, I do NOT really believe my teddy bear has emotions, or my hammer has malignant plans, or my car is afraid of me, or that vending machines respond to sincerity. Nor do I think that there's a god, anywhere, who will restore the file that J-hole lost simply because I vented off some emotional stress at the prospect of recreating a decade's record keeping."

The argument's not that offensive, just facile and shallow interpretation of the human tendency to see agency in random events. But the smug grin he sported while saying 'I bet you didn't even notice you're not an atheist' as if he'd caught me cheating on my wife or my diet...

 

[Kharakov]

Prey to the bicameral mind, once again.


"Prayer" sort of wakes up the subconscious mind, or brings some information into the light. If you over do it, you'll create a reinforcement loop in which your brain thinks you did good when you did not. It's sort of free masturbatory satisfaction for lazy pieces of shit who shut down their brains.

I helped by praying!!!

 

[Underseer]

"I used to be an atheist and[ent]hellip[/ent]"

Stop.

Just stop right there.

First of all, I know the statistics. In America, the number of atheists is growing and the number of theists is shrinking. This means that the number of Christians who become atheist outnumbers the number of atheists who become Christian. Since most people don't change their minds, these are pretty small numbers, and the number of ex-atheist Christians must be really quite small.

And yet it seems like every other day, I find a Christian on the Internet who claims to be an ex-atheist.

Here's the thing: from the statistics, I know that there can't possibly be that many ex-atheist Christians out there. Ergo, the vast majority of those who tell me that they are ex-atheist Christians are lying.

It's the reason for the lie that bugs me.

Everything Christians know come from an appeal to authority fallacy. The Bible is an authority and the Bible says X is true, so X is true. The man in the pulpit is an authority and the man in the pulpit says Y is true, so Y is true. So to a Christian, appeal to authority is the only way to convince someone something is true. They probably have only the vaguest idea what a fallacy is or why the use of a fallacy would undermine your position by making other people suspicious of you.

Most atheists in America are ex-Christians who went through a long, involved, and challenging process of deconversion that involved a lot of introspection and study. Most of us do know what an appeal to authority fallacy is. Using an appeal to authority fallacy is guaranteed to get us to dismiss everything you say, and most Christians who use this lie open with this lie. So even if the lie were true, an ex-atheist would know not to open with something guaranteed to turn his/her audience away at the beginning of the conversation. In other words, mister Christian, if you really were an ex-atheist, you wouldn't begin the conversation by saying that you were once atheist, because you would know that would turn your audience off. You would know to use your strongest and best argument from the existence of god because that is the only thing that can convince us.

You're not going to get us to accept your truth claims by using appeal to authority fallacies. You can only accomplish that with good evidence and/or good arguments. Always open with your best one.

Everything about this apologetics strategy is wrong and wrong-headed.

 

[James Brown]

Richard Dawkins said it well. When someone claims to be a Yusetabe Atheist, it's to gain street cred with her peers.

 

[Lion IRC]

...the vast majority of those who tell me that they are ex-atheist Christians are lying.

What? You mean they are still atheists?

...Most of us do know what an appeal to authority fallacy is. Using an appeal to authority fallacy is guaranteed to get us to dismiss everything you say

Says the dude whose credibility hangs on the claim about how many atheists are former Christians.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Richard Dawkins said it well. When someone claims to be a Yusetabe Atheist, it's to gain street cred with her peers.

I disagree, it is closer to Underseer’s point.

‘I know how you think because I used to be one like you.’. This helps create the shield needed for the previous or soon to come strawman arguments such as ‘You hate God, I know, I used to be an atheist.’

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

...the vast majority of those who tell me that they are ex-atheist Christians are lying.

What? You mean they are still atheists?

...Most of us do know what an appeal to authority fallacy is. Using an appeal to authority fallacy is guaranteed to get us to dismiss everything you say

Says the dude whose credibility hangs on the claim about how many atheists are former Christians.

You came all this way here to troll?

 

[Lion IRC]

Nope.
And I was never an atheist.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Nope.
And I was never an atheist.

That’s exactly what a former atheist would try to tell us ...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nope.
And I was never an atheist.

We are all born atheists. [/cheap shot].

 

[James Brown]

Richard Dawkins said it well. When someone claims to be a Yusetabe Atheist, it's to gain street cred with her peers.

I disagree, it is closer to Underseer’s point.

‘I know how you think because I used to be one like you.’. This helps create the shield needed for the previous or soon to come strawman arguments such as ‘You hate God, I know, I used to be an atheist.’

Oh, Hell, I'll let Dawkins himself quote himself:

Notice, by the way, the distinction from another favourite genre: 'I used to be an atheist, but...' That is one of the oldest tricks in the book, much favoured by religious apologists from C. S. Lewis to the present day. It serves to establish some sort of street cred up front, and it is amazing how often it works. Look out for it.

 

[Keith&Co.]

'I used to be an atheist, but...' That is one of the oldest tricks in the book, much favoured by religious apologists from C. S. Lewis to the present day. It serves to establish some sort of street cred up front, and it is amazing how often it works. Look out for it.

Also used the exact same way with 'I came out of witchcraft' for propping up claims of Satanism, and 'I used to play a 23rd Level Elf' when D&D bashing was the thing.

 

[Rhea]

It's very simple to understand: the human body has not been formed to have as a natural function the introduction of male organs or objects thru the anus.

You know what _else_ the human body was never formed for to do naturally?

Ballet.
Welding.
Having spontaneoud erections for your whole life.

But Christians never seem “disgusted” by the people who do those things, even when they have to take drugs to accomplish them.

But you know what is perfectly natural and also disgusts Christians?
Public breastfeeding
Menstruation
Women with unshaven legs

You people are so whackadoodle and so unaware of it.

 

[Underseer]

...the vast majority of those who tell me that they are ex-atheist Christians are lying.

What? You mean they are still atheists?

...Most of us do know what an appeal to authority fallacy is. Using an appeal to authority fallacy is guaranteed to get us to dismiss everything you say

Says the dude whose credibility hangs on the claim about how many atheists are former Christians.

The statistics are well established.

Through the industrialized world, the number of atheists is growing and the number of theists is shrinking. Yes, even in America which is traditionally the Western nation with the highest religiosity.

Thus the number of Christians who become atheist must outnumber the atheists who become Christian. Otherwise, those numbers would be reversed.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, Hell, I'll let Dawkins himself quote himself:

Notice, by the way, the distinction from another favourite genre: 'I used to be an atheist, but...' That is one of the oldest tricks in the book, much favoured by religious apologists from C. S. Lewis to the present day. It serves to establish some sort of street cred up front, and it is amazing how often it works. Look out for it.

It's an old truck that relies on an appeal to authority fallacy.

 

[Kharakov]

"I used to be an atheist and[ent]hellip[/ent]" Stop. Just stop right there.

First of all, I know the statistics. In America, the number of atheists is growing and the number of theists is shrinking.

Income inequality, combined with knowledge of how the scum class lives is a cure all for Jesus belief. It's almost like prosperity gospel preachers are deliberately destroying Christianity... but willing to go on a ride while doing it.

BTW, send your donations to me and I will pray for you.

 

[Underseer]

"I used to be an atheist and[ent]hellip[/ent]" Stop. Just stop right there.

First of all, I know the statistics. In America, the number of atheists is growing and the number of theists is shrinking.

Income inequality, combined with knowledge of how the scum class lives is a cure all for Jesus belief. It's almost like prosperity gospel preachers are deliberately destroying Christianity... but willing to go on a ride while doing it.

BTW, send your donations to me and I will pray for you.

I remember when Evangelicals sneered when they talked about Prosperity Doctrine as televangelist nonsense, now they all embrace it. It's like they're going out of their way to drive the decent, sane people out of Christianity.

 

[Rhea]

It's like they're going out of their way to drive the decent, sane people out of Christianity.

I tell you, though, if this stuff were all true, and there was a Satan, don’t you think he’d spent his time infiltrating and corrupting the Christians instead of flirting with Atheists? Turn them all while they think they are righteous and have nothing to change or confess? If there were a real Satan, he’d be stupid to spend any time on atheists since we’re already his. He’s a smart fellow. He’d be doing exactly this - and Jehovah sitting by helplessly lamenting “free will!”

 

[Keith&Co.]

I tell you, though, if this stuff were all true, and there was a Satan, don’t you think he’d spent his time infiltrating and corrupting the Christians instead of flirting with Atheists?

Exactly.
I mean, you don't have to be turned all the way to baby-sacrificing Satanist for Him's goals to be reached.
All my religious authorities insisted it was enough to worship the right God, and the right Jesus, but in the wrong manner.
Satan has no need to invent evolution, just the teensiest bit of doubt about pre- or posttribulation, or promote a silly but accepted solution to the Easter Problem. Especially if Him can get the fighting each other...

 

[Rhea]

Who murdered Lot’s Wife by turning her to Salt?
And Why?
And what was Lot’s wife’s name? Didn’t the divine word care about women?
And what were his daughter’s names? Again, did god not care about women when he breathed the word?