Religious Joy: A Question for Atheists

[Unknown Soldier]

I think that when the religious claim to be "spiritual" they are being condescending implying that they have a perception of a truth or truths that we skeptics lack. In other words, they allegedly see what we are blind to. For example, soon after I lost my religious belief a woman I know became angry with me and told me I have "no spirit."

That's your standard fear response. Your position is also perceived by devout believers as an attack on their identity. Cult behavior 101.

I should say that this woman, "Donna," and I had been in a lopsided relationship for several years. I met her in high school, and she had a crush on me, but I only was interested in her as a friend at most. I think she resented my rejecting her as a lover, and so she had reason to be angry with me aside from my leaving Christianity. When I left my religious belief behind I became very vocal about how phony it was, and her anger started boiling over her hating what I was saying. What's interesting about her attitude is that prior to my leaving Christianity I never knew her to be religious. In fact, I thought she was an atheist. I should point out that I made very clear to her that I had been scammed when I was a Christian, but as far as she was concerned my being scammed wasn't sufficient reason for me to conclude that Christianity is a scam. She told me that "they're not all like that."

So the moral of the story is that people can have latent religious belief that rises to the surface if people feel that that belief is threatened by skepticism. People can also use religious belief to club people they resent even if the resentment is based in reasons that aren't entirely based in religion. Finally, knowing that a person has been hurt by religious faith is not sufficient reason to tolerate that person criticizing religious faith. Religious faith is the top priority, and while it may be unfortunate if people get hurt by it, faith must be preserved.

 

[steve_bank]

I tremble and shake with joy whenever I post. It is a religious experience.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

To me as I like to say religion is one manifestation of a common human trait. Group idenity and the herd instinct along with the need to follow a leader.

The woo is an offering to the listener that they can have woo too. It raises the payoff for the listener. It's a product for sale like any other product. And if my intellectual development is at a certain point I'm all in to buy some magic. Give me woo of give me death! And that's because I don't know any better at that point. It is why steve bank trembles.

 

[steve_bank]

Knock Knock
Who's there?
Woo...
Woo who?

Ahh, stop crying.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I tremble and shake with joy whenever I post. It is a religious experience.

You might even speak in tongues as you critique religion. I'm still wondering why the religious are allowed to be happy believing what is false while we critical thinkers are mocked when we are happy correcting the nonsense sold by religion.

 

[Politesse]

I tremble and shake with joy whenever I post. It is a religious experience.

You might even speak in tongues as you critique religion. I'm still wondering why the religious are allowed to be happy believing what is false while we critical thinkers are mocked when we are happy correcting the nonsense sold by religion.

Interesting that you portray happiness as something that believers find within themselves, but which you find in attacking the things that bring them that happiness. To ask a Kantian question, what sort of world do you suppose would result if all people found happiness primarily in circumstances of interreligious schadenfreude?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You might even speak in tongues as you critique religion. I'm still wondering why the religious are allowed to be happy believing what is false while we critical thinkers are mocked when we are happy correcting the nonsense sold by religion.

Our brains are different. I think there's a lot more to be said for the condition of anosognosia than gets around.

 

[steve_bank]

I tremble and shake with joy whenever I post. It is a religious experience.

You might even speak in tongues as you critique religion. I'm still wondering why the religious are allowed to be happy believing what is false while we critical thinkers are mocked when we are happy correcting the nonsense sold by religion.

I am confused, how do we speak without tongues?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I tremble and shake with joy whenever I post. It is a religious experience.

You might even speak in tongues as you critique religion. I'm still wondering why the religious are allowed to be happy believing what is false while we critical thinkers are mocked when we are happy correcting the nonsense sold by religion.

I am confused, how do we speak without tongues?

I see what you mean. Did you ever try to speak out of your tongue? You'll need to ask those religious people when they are able to stop jumping for joy.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I tremble and shake with joy whenever I post. It is a religious experience.

You might even speak in tongues as you critique religion. I'm still wondering why the religious are allowed to be happy believing what is false while we critical thinkers are mocked when we are happy correcting the nonsense sold by religion.

Interesting that you portray happiness as something that believers find within themselves...

Well, if I was religious, then I'd be happy to find a brain within myself.

...but which you find in attacking the things that bring them that happiness.

Achieving social progress leaving superstition and paranoia behind is one of my reasons to be happy, true.

To ask a Kantian question, what sort of world do you suppose would result if all people found happiness primarily in circumstances of interreligious schadenfreude?

Schadenfreude? I think I ate that at a fancy restaurant once. It's really good with white wine.

Anyway, I have no idea what world would result if all people partook of schadenfreude (with or without white wine). Nevertheless, I'm sure the world would be a better place if we felt joy over truth rather than lies. I've worked as an educator, and my feathers to tend to get a bit ruffled if all my hard work is tossed into the trash by those who may prefer to be misinformed. If learning what is true upsets people, then they'll probably get over it. I've been upset by facts often enough, but I'd hate to think where I would be without those facts.

 

[Jarhyn]

So, it took me a long time to see magic in the world after the mask feel away from the bloated, disgusting monster that was the church when I saw the "magic" that it offered was really just prettily wrapped turds, even if the book itself contains some fairly useful stuff, too.

It's like incels: come for the kernel of truth, buried in a massive "brownie". No, it is not cocoa beans you smell, it's just "normal beans" well "processed".

We have created something beautiful, and new, and powerful, with every ancient promise of "magic" bearing fruit in it's own way as a result of our understanding and work.

We can and are allowed to see wonder in the wonderful things we do.

"Oh, if ever a whever a wiz there was, the wizards of earth are thus because because because because... Because of the wonderful things they does."

We talk here only by virtue of the tireless work the wizards of our world expend to keep this magic from collapsing...

... Yet blind ourselves to it -- punish and ridicule, even those who recognize it.

We live in an age of wonders. And I am one of the wizards who is creating it, who is making this new magic!

This brings me more joy and meaning than ever came to me through praising something that, even were it to exist, deserves none of that.

I do not have to think of "God", and being loved, so, to experience unconditional love!! I just have to love unconditionally.

I do not have to sing my praises to "God" to feel the joy of praise: I can instead praise those around me for their own great and praise-worthy works.

I do not have to thank "God" before I eat to feel joy and peace despite not having prepared the meal that I eat: I can instead thank the actual people that cooked it, and then feel and express thanks to the rest of the society that made it possible, and see the real smiles on real faces, their happiness at being appreciated and to know that I will continue to appreciate everyone in the real chain of logistics and work.

I feel quiet pity for those who cannot see such magic.

I feel quiet pity for those who cannot give such love.

I feel quiet pity for those who see no endeavor that is worthy of praise.

I feel quiet pity for those who have nobody for whom to give thanks.

I feel pity for them that need God to feel the joy I feel from existing alongside my neighbors.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You might even speak in tongues as you critique religion. I'm still wondering why the religious are allowed to be happy believing what is false while we critical thinkers are mocked when we are happy correcting the nonsense sold by religion.

Our brains are different. I think there's a lot more to be said for the condition of anosognosia than gets around.

My mother was mentally ill often being angrily violent, and she insisted that she did no wrong when she acted on that anger. For example, she abused me as a child and even when I was a young adult. I had to get away from her and decided to move. When she found out I was moving out, she blocked my way at the door when I wanted to leave the house. She angrily told me that my moving out was wrong, and I retorted that she had abused me. She then clenched and unclenched her fists saying: "You liar--you liar!"

It's very important to understand that my mother's evil was based in her Christian beliefs. Her belief in a violently angry God made her violently angry, and her belief in the Devil and hell made her paranoid and caused her to hate harmless people. So I can answer the "question for atheists" posed on this thread saying that I don't want other people to be like my mother was, and I don't want other people to be hurt.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I do not have to thank "God" before I eat to feel joy and peace despite not having prepared the meal that I eat: I can instead thank the actual people that cooked it, and then feel and express thanks to the rest of the society that made it possible, and see the real smiles on real faces, their happiness at being appreciated and to know that I will continue to appreciate everyone in the real chain of logistics and work.

I made this same point to the folks at the CARM forum when they libeled people for being evil; a belief they get from their Christian beliefs. In addition to food, the hard work of good people grants us rooves over our heads, clothes on our backs, heat in the winter, and medical treatment when we are ill. As you say we need to thanks those people rather than thank an imaginary God whom even if he exists does nothing if we starve or freeze or get sick.

Oh, and for telling them this truth I got suspended and censored. Those who love lies hate truth, it appears.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

My question is: how do you feel about the promotion of atheism, given how much joy believers get from their beliefs?

The joy of being homophobic and misogynous and having to settle for a genocidal prick of a god.

Believers can have that joy all they like, but moral people will not see the joy and will reject such a vile ideology/theology.

Given that atheists are statistically more peace-loving and law abiding, I think atheists should push their views more militantly.

The brightness of atheism is what will kill the immoral black light of religions.

Get to it my atheist friends.

Get more of your Atheist Churches and Mystery Schools going.

They are the future.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

I dunno man, some of the pop music I hear sounds like babbling in tongues. Never could figure out wHat Bob Dylan or Ozzie Ozborne ever said, but their followers seem to writhe in joy and ecstasy and joy when hearing the words, the Holy Babble.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I dunno man, some of the pop music I hear sounds like babbling in tongues. Never could figure out wHat Bob Dylan or Ozzie Ozborne ever said, but their followers seem to writhe in joy and ecstasy and joy when hearing the words, the Holy Babble.

Nothing but 70s, 80s and 90s are worth listening to.

Even some of those I have to read the lyrics to know what they are saying.

I like their raise a little hell slant.

Regards
DL

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My mother was mentally ill often being angrily violent, and she insisted that she did no wrong when she acted on that anger. For example, she abused me as a child and even when I was a young adult. I had to get away from her and decided to move. When she found out I was moving out, she blocked my way at the door when I wanted to leave the house. She angrily told me that my moving out was wrong, and I retorted that she had abused me. She then clenched and unclenched her fists saying: "You liar--you liar!"

It's very important to understand that my mother's evil was based in her Christian beliefs. Her belief in a violently angry God made her violently angry, and her belief in the Devil and hell made her paranoid and caused her to hate harmless people. So I can answer the "question for atheists" posed on this thread saying that I don't want other people to be like my mother was, and I don't want other people to be hurt.

Mental illness can take different religious paths. St Francis of Assisi allegedly stripped naked in the public square to demonstrate a rejection of all possessions including his right to inherit his father's wealth. That's the religious spin. In fact this is typical bipolar behavior. Francis couldn't reject materialism any other sensible way? He had to get naked in public and break with his family? That was the only way?

Now if I'm your standard unquestioning, spoonfed, religious person I'm swallowing the spin story hook line and sinker even though It's total bullshit. Lots of mental illness gets spun as religious behavior. Religion may make some people happy but it has certainly killed just as many people who were just as happy without their religion.

That Mormon dude Jeff Green left his church accusing it of stifling womens rights and gay rights and just being too fucking rich for its own good, not using its wealth to help people but instead to do violence against people. Good for him. Fuck the Mormon church and all their holy fucking underwear.

And Pope Frank, as much as I like the guy he says that couples not having kids is selfish. Holy Fuck! He excuses his chidless life because it's religious. Big Fucking Woop!

All religious people have one foot in the Looney bin.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

All religious people have one foot in the Looney bin.

Is Gandy included in that statement?

Regards
DL

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

All religious people have one foot in the Looney bin.

Is Gandy included in that statement?

Regards
DL

Of course. There's a ghost living in me that is part of a giant cosmic ghost? It's creepy, dangerous, psychotic woo. If you really care about people you don't need the woo. The woo is for yourself and just gets in the way, but if I honestly think the ghosty woo is real I'm a bit looney.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

All religious people have one foot in the Looney bin.

Is Gandy included in that statement?

Regards
DL

Of course. There's a ghost living in me that is part of a giant cosmic ghost? It's creepy, dangerous, psychotic woo. If you really care about people you don't need the woo. The woo is for yourself and just gets in the way, but if I honestly think the ghosty woo is real I'm a bit looney.

Get help.

Regards
DL