Rep. Gosar Faces Censure for AOC Murder Video, Refuses to Apologize. Sister Calls Him a "Sociopath."

[Patooka]

Kathy Griffin, anyone?

Fcuk you you liberal piece of shit. Katy Griffin was never elected and has never held a position of responsibility! Therefore different standards should apply. What the fuck is wrong with you? Paul Gosar should be held to a different stand than communists like Kathy Griffin and I am offended that you think otherwise!


Wait...you think elected officials with real power and real responsibilities should be held to a higher standard than someone whose best trait can only be described as "typical"?

I'll let Trausti explain how elitist that is and why what you have now is so much sensible.

 

[Swammerdami]

I agree but IMO this escalates the kneejerk partisanship. No one in their right mind would think this is an actual death threat. It was a stupid, offensive and juvenile stunt worthy of a junior high school dumbass.

A reprimand would more fit the bill for that at the time, one off event.

We can't even get Gossar or the Republicans to admit that it was "offensive and juvenile". There is no remorse. That increases the severity of the offense. That is certainly one of the factors judges consider when sentencing criminals. Censure is the correct response.

Plus, I disagree with you that the meme can't be conside[r]ed a threat. Am I out of my mind?

I agree with you, so if you're out of your mind, I am too. I am surprised at the other TFTers in the thread — (should we call them Infidels now?) — who think this is a harmless joke that didn't deserve a censure.

It would be nice to return to a pleasanter America where people could make such harmless jokes. But we can't: This is 2021. We live in an America over-run by hate-filled idiots, some of whom will take Gosar's video as a message from Jesus that they should kill AOC. And Gosar knows this.

Remember the 2012 election where Romney reprimanded Repugnants who'd swallowed lies about Obama? Republicans who emulate Romney today are literally kicked out of their Party.

Unlike the Rittenhouse jury we are not bound by rules of evidence. We know Kyle once said he wished he had a gun so he could shoot him some shoplifters. And we know Gosar is a hate-filled right-winger whose own siblings call him a sociopath; a darling of Sheriff Arpaio, and a big name in the Stop the Steal movement. He attends meetings of racist organizations, at one of which he said 'We are in a Civil War, we just haven’t started shooting yet'... So that is about to change."

Frankly I'm shocked and saddened by the support Gosar has in this thread, from posters I thought of as liberalish. If we wait until Kristallnacht before understanding we're in the midst of fascist take-over, we will have waited too long.

 

[Politesse]

We've already had a case, in what should not be distant memory, where a similar "joke" was followed less than a year later by an assassination event (in Gosar's home state) which took the lives of six people, including a child. These hardline gun-slinger type Trumpers living out on the desert aren't actually people of great humor; their "jokes" are cruel in the best of times, and the punchline often isn't a joke at all.

 

[Ford]

We've already had a case, in what should not be distant memory, where a similar "joke" was followed less than a year later by an assassination event (in Gosar's home state) which took the lives of six people, including a child. These hardline gun-slinger type Trumpers living out on the desert aren't actually people of great humor; their "jokes" are cruel in the best of times, and the punchline often isn't a joke at all.

I was going to say something like "I hate to say this, but this shit will not stop until we have a mass shooting," but the truth is that this shit will not stop even after we have another one.

Gabby Giffords was a pro-gun blue dog Democrat who was just one of the victims of that horrific event a decade ago. The shooter was mentally ill, and only his defense attorneys would claim him. Now (for obvious reasons) Giffords is a little more in favor of gun control, but the narrative has shifted from "oh god...that lunatic was wrong to shoot up that Safeway parking lot" to "well of course we need to talk about 'second amendment solutions' for liberal Democrats."

We're not quite to the point where Loughner is a hero, but we're inching towards it. Careening, actually. If the shooting happened today, Tucker Carlson would be "just asking questions" about whether or not Gabby "had it coming."

 

[laughing dog]

I agree but IMO this escalates the kneejerk partisanship. No one in their right mind would think this is an actual death threat. It was a stupid, offensive and juvenile stunt worthy of a junior high school dumbass.

A reprimand would more fit the bill for that at the time, one off event.

We can't even get Gossar or the Republicans to admit that it was "offensive and juvenile". There is no remorse. That increases the severity of the offense. That is certainly one of the factors judges consider when sentencing criminals. Censure is the correct response.

Plus, I disagree with you that the meme can't be conside[r]ed a threat. Am I out of my mind?

I agree with you, so if you're out of your mind, I am too. I am surprised at the other TFTers in the thread — (should we call them Infidels now?) — who think this is a harmless joke that didn't deserve a censure.

It would be nice to return to a pleasanter America where people could make such harmless jokes. But we can't: This is 2021. We live in an America over-run by hate-filled idiots, some of whom will take Gosar's video as a message from Jesus that they should kill AOC. And Gosar knows this.

Remember the 2012 election where Romney reprimanded Repugnants who'd swallowed lies about Obama? Republicans who emulate Romney today are literally kicked out of their Party.

Unlike the Rittenhouse jury we are not bound by rules of evidence. We know Kyle once said he wished he had a gun so he could shoot him some shoplifters. And we know Gosar is a hate-filled right-winger whose own siblings call him a sociopath; a darling of Sheriff Arpaio, and a big name in the Stop the Steal movement. He attends meetings of racist organizations, at one of which he said 'We are in a Civil War, we just haven’t started shooting yet'... So that is about to change."

Frankly I'm shocked and saddened by the support Gosar has in this thread, from posters I thought of as liberalish. If we wait until Kristallnacht before understanding we're in the midst of fascist take-over, we will have waited too long.

If you think anyone in this thread is supporting Gosar, you are out of your mind. For centuries,awful people have said all sorts of awful things without actually meaning to carry through with them.

In my view, the over-reaction of the Democrats in Congress plays right into the narrative of their opponents - some of whom they need to persuade for support in elections.

 

[Gun Nut]

In my view, the over-reaction of the Democrats in Congress plays right into the narrative of their opponents - some of whom they need to persuade for support in elections.

.. the ability to quote on the new site here is shit.... really makes it difficult...
So I have no idea how this will read.. and if it fails to parse, fuck it, it's the site.

What over-reaction? How is censure an overreaction? what would be a better reaction that is less of a reaction than the finger wave that censure is?? It's like the GoP calls anything calling for accountability an overreaction.. until they wish to make the same argument.. then (cathy giffords' severed trump head, anyone?) it is the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone anywhere ever!

 

[laughing dog]

In my view, the over-reaction of the Democrats in Congress plays right into the narrative of their opponents - some of whom they need to persuade for support in elections.

.. the ability to quote on the new site here is shit.... really makes it difficult...
So I have no idea how this will read.. and if it fails to parse, fuck it, it's the site.

What over-reaction? How is censure an overreaction? what would be a better reaction that is less of a reaction than the finger wave that censure is?? It's like the GoP calls anything calling for accountability an overreaction.. until they wish to make the same argument.. then (cathy giffords' severed trump head, anyone?) it is the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone anywhere ever!

Since 1832, there have been 20 representatives censured in the US House ( List_of_United_States_representatives_expelled,_censured,_or_reprimanded) of which 7 (including Gosar) have come from after the Great Depression. The Wiki link has the names and the offenses. Compare the offenses with Gosar - they are much more tangible and real.

 

[Politesse]

In my view, the over-reaction of the Democrats in Congress plays right into the narrative of their opponents - some of whom they need to persuade for support in elections.

.. the ability to quote on the new site here is shit.... really makes it difficult...
So I have no idea how this will read.. and if it fails to parse, fuck it, it's the site.

What over-reaction? How is censure an overreaction? what would be a better reaction that is less of a reaction than the finger wave that censure is?? It's like the GoP calls anything calling for accountability an overreaction.. until they wish to make the same argument.. then (cathy giffords' severed trump head, anyone?) it is the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone anywhere ever!

Since 1832, there have been 20 representatives censured in the US House ( List_of_United_States_representatives_expelled,_censured,_or_reprimanded) of which 7 (including Gosar) have come from after the Great Depression. The Wiki link has the names and the offenses. Compare the offenses with Gosar - they are much more tangible and real.

I'll never understand why conservatives are always posting links without first reading them to make sure they actually concur with their argument. As your link very clearly indicates, the most common category of censures have been on the charge of "unparliamentary language", which Rep. Gosar is very clearly and unashamedly guilty of for this and other incidents. So this incident, in fact, closely mirrors existing precedent. In fact, nearly every current Republican legislator (and quite a few Democrats) are guilty of using unparliamentary language by the traditional definition of that term, which includes among other things openly accusing your political opponents of lying. This behavior has become troublingly common on the House floor this past decade.

The very first use of censure was for "insulting the Speaker of the House." Can you imagine? God I miss the days when some level of decorum was expected of public figures.

 

[jab]

I'm sure you've all heard the background on this. Rep Gosar's people took an anime video, from Attack on Titan series and put AOC's face on a monster, Biden's face on another, and Gosar's face on another. In the series, the heros are normal sized people and the "monsters" are huge and have to be killed by swords to the back of neck, generally. So, Gosar murders them.

In the worst way this is worded, it's worded that Gosar is making death threats. This just isn't true literally and technically. HOWEVER, given the current climate and how people tried an insurrection and how some people take this shit seriously and those people are fans of Gosar, he's increasing the culture of death threats and "coolness" of this sort of thing. He has privileges and rights. No rights should be removed for his offensive free speech, but perhaps someone could take a look at the privileges he enjoys in the workplace, like committee memberships. I don't have a problem with that.

These are just my opinions.

Next, the main reason I made this thread is that I was shocked he had siblilngs that say he is an incompetent sociopath or something similar anyway. Watch the video.

Not literally true, perhaps, but at least like how Sarah Palin ginned things up and got Gabby Giffords shot.

 

[ZiprHead]

.. the ability to quote on the new site here is shit.... really makes it difficult...
So I have no idea how this will read.. and if it fails to parse, fuck it, it's the site.

You can turn off the wysiwyg editing view by clicking the Toggle BBCode on the upper right. Then the editor looks like it did on TFT.

 

[lpetrich]

 Ghostbusters - Yes indeed, there was a Gozer in that movie.

 

[laughing dog]

In my view, the over-reaction of the Democrats in Congress plays right into the narrative of their opponents - some of whom they need to persuade for support in elections.

.. the ability to quote on the new site here is shit.... really makes it difficult...
So I have no idea how this will read.. and if it fails to parse, fuck it, it's the site.

What over-reaction? How is censure an overreaction? what would be a better reaction that is less of a reaction than the finger wave that censure is?? It's like the GoP calls anything calling for accountability an overreaction.. until they wish to make the same argument.. then (cathy giffords' severed trump head, anyone?) it is the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone anywhere ever!

Since 1832, there have been 20 representatives censured in the US House ( List_of_United_States_representatives_expelled,_censured,_or_reprimanded) of which 7 (including Gosar) have come from after the Great Depression. The Wiki link has the names and the offenses. Compare the offenses with Gosar - they are much more tangible and real.

I'll never understand why conservatives are always posting links without first reading them to make sure they actually concur with their argument. As your link very clearly indicates, the most common category of censures have been on the charge of "unparliamentary language", which Rep. Gosar is very clearly and unashamedly guilty of for this and other incidents. So this incident, in fact, closely mirrors existing precedent. In fact, nearly every current Republican legislator (and quite a few Democrats) are guilty of using unparliamentary language by the traditional definition of that term, which includes among other things openly accusing your political opponents of lying. This behavior has become troublingly common on the House floor this past decade.

The very first use of censure was for "insulting the Speaker of the House." Can you imagine? God I miss the days when some level of decorum was expected of public figures.

Since 1832 there have been 20 censured in the House. Since 1979, there have 7 censured - all for much worse offenses. The last censure for language of any type was in 1921 - 100 years ago. It must be a shock to all those eaters of watercress sandwiches with the crusts removed, but times have fucking changed.

 

[Politesse]

I'll never understand why conservatives are always posting links without first reading them to make sure they actually concur with their argument. As your link very clearly indicates, the most common category of censures have been on the charge of "unparliamentary language", which Rep. Gosar is very clearly and unashamedly guilty of for this and other incidents. So this incident, in fact, closely mirrors existing precedent. In fact, nearly every current Republican legislator (and quite a few Democrats) are guilty of using unparliamentary language by the traditional definition of that term, which includes among other things openly accusing your political opponents of lying. This behavior has become troublingly common on the House floor this past decade.

The very first use of censure was for "insulting the Speaker of the House." Can you imagine? God I miss the days when some level of decorum was expected of public figures.

Since 1832 there have been 20 censured in the House. Since 1979, there have 7 censured - all for much worse offenses. The last censure for language of any type was in 1921 - 100 years ago. It must be a shock to all those eaters of watercress sandwiches with the crusts removed, but times have fucking changed.

If you like, but your "evidence" is still nonsense; the only thing I can conclude is that you were hoping no one would actually look at the link.

And "much worse offenses" is a bit subjective, if I may say. Both tax fraud and death threats are illegal, but tax fraud is usually a misdemeanor unless it succeeds in wholesale tax evasion (usually difficult to prove), whereas threatening to kill an elected official is in all cases an actual felony under 18 U.S.C. § 871. More subjectively, I'd be personally feel a lot more comfortable learning that a colleague had committed tax fraud than that they had threatened to murder me. I guess you really love your income taxes? More than your own life? In any case, I disagree with the differential evaluarion of severity that is being proposed.

I do agree that sexual assault of a minor is a more serious crime than threatening to kill an elected official, but at this point our sample size is two, and your claim at that point basically amounts to "unless the offense is as or more serious than the single most serious offense previously censured within the last fifty years, no action should be taken", which I most certainly would not agree to.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

 Ghostbusters - Yes indeed, there was a Gozer in that movie.

Are you a god?

 

[Patooka]

Are you a god?

Nope. I'm a keymaster.

 

[Swammerdami]

Since 1832 there have been 20 censured in the House. Since 1979, there have 7 censured - all for much worse offenses. The last censure for language of any type was in 1921 - 100 years ago. It must be a shock to all those eaters of watercress sandwiches with the crusts removed, but times have fucking changed.

To compare "apples with apples" look only at cases where the censure vote was not lop-sided. For that we need go back to 1890 when Bynum was censured for "unparliamentary language."

In 1890, Bynum was censured for calling a Republican foe a tyrant and despot — and was censured by the Republican majority for "unparliamentary language". As he walked down the aisle to receive his punishment, the entire Democratic side rose, went down and stood in a solid body with him.

"Tyrant and despot"? That's a compliment compared with the garbage Repugnants routinely sling at any Democrat these days. Doesn't the QOP now routinely substitute "communist" for "left of center"?

 

[laughing dog]

I'll never understand why conservatives are always posting links without first reading them to make sure they actually concur with their argument. As your link very clearly indicates, the most common category of censures have been on the charge of "unparliamentary language", which Rep. Gosar is very clearly and unashamedly guilty of for this and other incidents. So this incident, in fact, closely mirrors existing precedent. In fact, nearly every current Republican legislator (and quite a few Democrats) are guilty of using unparliamentary language by the traditional definition of that term, which includes among other things openly accusing your political opponents of lying. This behavior has become troublingly common on the House floor this past decade.

The very first use of censure was for "insulting the Speaker of the House." Can you imagine? God I miss the days when some level of decorum was expected of public figures.

Since 1832 there have been 20 censured in the House. Since 1979, there have 7 censured - all for much worse offenses. The last censure for language of any type was in 1921 - 100 years ago. It must be a shock to all those eaters of watercress sandwiches with the crusts removed, but times have fucking changed.

If you like, but your "evidence" is still nonsense; the only thing I can conclude is that you were hoping no one would actually look at the link.

History is not nonsense. But your response is.

And "much worse offenses" is a bit subjective, if I may say. Both tax fraud and death threats are illegal, but tax fraud is usually a misdemeanor unless it succeeds in wholesale tax evasion (usually difficult to prove), whereas threatening to kill an elected official is in all cases an actual felony under 18 U.S.C. § 871. More subjectively, I'd be personally feel a lot more comfortable learning that a colleague had committed tax fraud than that they had threatened to murder me. I guess you really love your income taxes? More than your own life? In any case, I disagree with the differential evaluarion of severity that is being proposed.

I do agree that sexual assault of a minor is a more serious crime than threatening to kill an elected official, but at this point our sample size is two, and your claim at that point basically amounts to "unless the offense is as or more serious than the single most serious offense previously censured within the last fifty years, no action should be taken", which I most certainly would not agree to.

Your response is based on a false premise - that Gosar actually threatened to kill an elected official - which makes your analysis nothing more a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Politesse]

I'll never understand why conservatives are always posting links without first reading them to make sure they actually concur with their argument. As your link very clearly indicates, the most common category of censures have been on the charge of "unparliamentary language", which Rep. Gosar is very clearly and unashamedly guilty of for this and other incidents. So this incident, in fact, closely mirrors existing precedent. In fact, nearly every current Republican legislator (and quite a few Democrats) are guilty of using unparliamentary language by the traditional definition of that term, which includes among other things openly accusing your political opponents of lying. This behavior has become troublingly common on the House floor this past decade.

The very first use of censure was for "insulting the Speaker of the House." Can you imagine? God I miss the days when some level of decorum was expected of public figures.

Since 1832 there have been 20 censured in the House. Since 1979, there have 7 censured - all for much worse offenses. The last censure for language of any type was in 1921 - 100 years ago. It must be a shock to all those eaters of watercress sandwiches with the crusts removed, but times have fucking changed.

If you like, but your "evidence" is still nonsense; the only thing I can conclude is that you were hoping no one would actually look at the link.

History is not nonsense. But your response is.

And "much worse offenses" is a bit subjective, if I may say. Both tax fraud and death threats are illegal, but tax fraud is usually a misdemeanor unless it succeeds in wholesale tax evasion (usually difficult to prove), whereas threatening to kill an elected official is in all cases an actual felony under 18 U.S.C. § 871. More subjectively, I'd be personally feel a lot more comfortable learning that a colleague had committed tax fraud than that they had threatened to murder me. I guess you really love your income taxes? More than your own life? In any case, I disagree with the differential evaluarion of severity that is being proposed.

I do agree that sexual assault of a minor is a more serious crime than threatening to kill an elected official, but at this point our sample size is two, and your claim at that point basically amounts to "unless the offense is as or more serious than the single most serious offense previously censured within the last fifty years, no action should be taken", which I most certainly would not agree to.

Your response is based on a false premise - that Gosar actually threatened to kill an elected official - which makes your analysis nothing more a waste of bandwidth.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is engaging is colossal intentional ignorance. Who,over the age of five, would not understand what it means when an agressor paints an image of themselves murdering you?

 

[laughing dog]

I'll never understand why conservatives are always posting links without first reading them to make sure they actually concur with their argument. As your link very clearly indicates, the most common category of censures have been on the charge of "unparliamentary language", which Rep. Gosar is very clearly and unashamedly guilty of for this and other incidents. So this incident, in fact, closely mirrors existing precedent. In fact, nearly every current Republican legislator (and quite a few Democrats) are guilty of using unparliamentary language by the traditional definition of that term, which includes among other things openly accusing your political opponents of lying. This behavior has become troublingly common on the House floor this past decade.

The very first use of censure was for "insulting the Speaker of the House." Can you imagine? God I miss the days when some level of decorum was expected of public figures.

Since 1832 there have been 20 censured in the House. Since 1979, there have 7 censured - all for much worse offenses. The last censure for language of any type was in 1921 - 100 years ago. It must be a shock to all those eaters of watercress sandwiches with the crusts removed, but times have fucking changed.

If you like, but your "evidence" is still nonsense; the only thing I can conclude is that you were hoping no one would actually look at the link.

History is not nonsense. But your response is.

And "much worse offenses" is a bit subjective, if I may say. Both tax fraud and death threats are illegal, but tax fraud is usually a misdemeanor unless it succeeds in wholesale tax evasion (usually difficult to prove), whereas threatening to kill an elected official is in all cases an actual felony under 18 U.S.C. § 871. More subjectively, I'd be personally feel a lot more comfortable learning that a colleague had committed tax fraud than that they had threatened to murder me. I guess you really love your income taxes? More than your own life? In any case, I disagree with the differential evaluarion of severity that is being proposed.

I do agree that sexual assault of a minor is a more serious crime than threatening to kill an elected official, but at this point our sample size is two, and your claim at that point basically amounts to "unless the offense is as or more serious than the single most serious offense previously censured within the last fifty years, no action should be taken", which I most certainly would not agree to.

Your response is based on a false premise - that Gosar actually threatened to kill an elected official - which makes your analysis nothing more a waste of bandwidth.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is engaging is colossal intentional ignorance. Who,over the age of five, would not understand what it means when an agressor paints an image of themselves murdering you?

I bow to your demonstrated expertise on intentional ignorance.

 

[lpetrich]

H.Res.789 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Censuring Representative Paul Gosar. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

"This resolution (1) censures Representative Paul Gosar for posting a certain video on his social media accounts that depicts violence against Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and President Joseph R. Biden, and (2) removes him from the Committee on Natural Resources and the Committee on Oversight and Reform.

Sponsor: Rep. Speier, Jackie [D-CA-14] (Introduced 11/12/2021)
Cosponsors: 123, 60 original, all Democrats

The vote on it: Roll Call 379 | Bill Number: H. Res. 789
D: Y 223
R: Y 2, N 207, P 1, nv 3
Total: Y 225, N 207, P 1, nv 3
The present one was Rep. Joyce OH
The non-voting ones were Reps. Griffith VA, Loudermilk GA, Perry PA

The Republicans who voted yes: Adam Kinzinger IL and Liz Cheney WY