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Republicans Always "Narrowly Win"...

Elixir

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...wherever there is electoral funny business going on.
Anyone else think there might be something strange about that?

Hackers may have gained ‘almost total control’ of an election server in Georgia, report says

Republican Brian Kemp narrowly beat Democrat Stacey Abrams during the 2018 gubernatorial race, in which he ran while serving as Georgia’s secretary of state....
“We know there was no way to audit” the results of the previous elections, Ms Marks said. “There was no … attempt at accountability by the secretary of state, and the entire programming of elections was outsourced.”

“What Logan’s findings show us,” she added, “is that vulnerabilities were not just hypothetical as the state had been claiming. Now we know that it was a very real risk, but what we don’t know is just how bad did it get. And the public deserves to know.”

Kinda reminiscent of those 3 precincts in Ohio that Bush "won" by the exact same percentage, while exit polling indicated that he had lost.
It's not news that Republicans cheat, nor is it news that they are proud of it, considering their ability and willingness to cheat an indication that they are "smart".
Still, it's sad commentary on the state of the Republic, and on the nature of humanity in general.
 
...wherever there is electoral funny business going on.
Anyone else think there might be something strange about that?

Hackers may have gained ‘almost total control’ of an election server in Georgia, report says

Republican Brian Kemp narrowly beat Democrat Stacey Abrams during the 2018 gubernatorial race, in which he ran while serving as Georgia’s secretary of state....
“We know there was no way to audit” the results of the previous elections, Ms Marks said. “There was no … attempt at accountability by the secretary of state, and the entire programming of elections was outsourced.”

“What Logan’s findings show us,” she added, “is that vulnerabilities were not just hypothetical as the state had been claiming. Now we know that it was a very real risk, but what we don’t know is just how bad did it get. And the public deserves to know.”

Kinda reminiscent of those 3 precincts in Ohio that Bush "won" by the exact same percentage, while exit polling indicated that he had lost.
It's not news that Republicans cheat, nor is it news that they are proud of it, considering their ability and willingness to cheat an indication that they are "smart".
Still, it's sad commentary on the state of the Republic, and on the nature of humanity in general.

It's an inevitable consequence of abandoning the security and auditability of paper ballots, in favour of the speed, convenience and modernity of voting by machine.

The ONLY important criterion when designing an electoral system is security of the result - it should accurately reflect the voting intentions of those who cast a ballot. To sacrifice even to a minuscule degree the secure accuracy and integrity of the result in pursuit of trivial secondary criteria, such as speed or cost, is to abandon democracy.

Machine voting is a dangerous fad, which is why it hasn't been widely adopted outside the USA. It's particularly needless in US presidential ballots, where history has left a legacy of many weeks between voting and inauguration - I know CNN, CBS, NBC, et al. want to be able to call the election within a few hours of the close of the polls on the East Coast; But that journalistic desire is not more important than ensuring that the victory is handed to the actual winner.

Or rather, it is, but shouldn't be.
 
...wherever there is electoral funny business going on.
Anyone else think there might be something strange about that?

Hackers may have gained ‘almost total control’ of an election server in Georgia, report says

Republican Brian Kemp narrowly beat Democrat Stacey Abrams during the 2018 gubernatorial race, in which he ran while serving as Georgia’s secretary of state....
“We know there was no way to audit” the results of the previous elections, Ms Marks said. “There was no … attempt at accountability by the secretary of state, and the entire programming of elections was outsourced.”

“What Logan’s findings show us,” she added, “is that vulnerabilities were not just hypothetical as the state had been claiming. Now we know that it was a very real risk, but what we don’t know is just how bad did it get. And the public deserves to know.”

Kinda reminiscent of those 3 precincts in Ohio that Bush "won" by the exact same percentage, while exit polling indicated that he had lost.
It's not news that Republicans cheat, nor is it news that they are proud of it, considering their ability and willingness to cheat an indication that they are "smart".
Still, it's sad commentary on the state of the Republic, and on the nature of humanity in general.

It's an inevitable consequence of abandoning the security and auditability of paper ballots, in favour of the speed, convenience and modernity of voting by machine.

The ONLY important criterion when designing an electoral system is security of the result - it should accurately reflect the voting intentions of those who cast a ballot. To sacrifice even to a minuscule degree the secure accuracy and integrity of the result in pursuit of trivial secondary criteria, such as speed or cost, is to abandon democracy.

Machine voting is a dangerous fad, which is why it hasn't been widely adopted outside the USA. It's particularly needless in US presidential ballots, where history has left a legacy of many weeks between voting and inauguration - I know CNN, CBS, NBC, et al. want to be able to call the election within a few hours of the close of the polls on the East Coast; But that journalistic desire is not more important than ensuring that the victory is handed to the actual winner.

Or rather, it is, but shouldn't be.

It has been the exclusive province of Republicans to cheat in US elections for the last couple of decades. They have become a minority party. They are becoming more and more outnumbered, and losing independents as well, as demographics are changing.
As it stands today, Democrats only need elections to be fair in order to win. Republicans need elections to be rigged, and have no qualms about rigging them in every way possible. Now, with El Cheato himself at the helm they don't have to disguise their intent, or even their illegal actions.
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place. Democrats are against voter ID laws because they want anyone to be able to vote without an ID. To me, this is a form of cheating.
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place.

Bullshit. It's to make sure the poor can't vote. But Republicans don't have the balls to call it as it is, so they make up a phony crisis, specifically voter fraud running rampant

Texas had more stringent requirements in 2014 — it required a photo ID to vote. Fraga and Miller estimate that voters without an ID in 2016 were 14 percentage points less likely to vote in Texas two years earlier than individuals who voted with an ID in 2016.

But because you only get your "facts" from youtube:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxK8h0mp0ZI[/youtube]

I figured using a fake TV show to address your fake problem seems appropriate.
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place.

Bullshit. It's to make sure the poor can't vote. But Republicans don't have the balls to call it as it is, so they make up a phony crisis, specifically voter fraud running rampant

Texas had more stringent requirements in 2014 — it required a photo ID to vote. Fraga and Miller estimate that voters without an ID in 2016 were 14 percentage points less likely to vote in Texas two years earlier than individuals who voted with an ID in 2016.

But because you only get your "facts" from youtube:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxK8h0mp0ZI[/youtube]

I figured using a fake TV show to address your fake problem seems appropriate.

Wait, Republicans are doing this so the poor can't vote? Are you saying all the poor states in the South can't vote because they are too poor?

Then why do you guys claim those "poor uneducated people" are the ones who vote for Trump?

Are they suppressing the poor vote or not?
 
Wait, Republicans are doing this so the poor can't vote? Are you saying all the poor states in the South can't vote because they are too poor?

Then why do you guys claim those "poor uneducated people" are the ones who vote for Trump?

Are they suppressing the poor vote or not?

But the poor R voters have drivers' licenses because they have to drive their F150s. The over-educated adjunct gender studies professors that always vote D don't because they take the bus and don't know how to avail themselves of the free voter either. Or something.
 
Do Republicans ALWAYS narrowly win? Or even statistically significantly more often? Do you have any data?
 
It's to make sure the poor can't vote. But Republicans don't have the balls to call it as it is, so they make up a phony crisis, specifically voter fraud running rampant.

There are still some nitwits who actually believe Trump's line about 3 million illegal immigrant votes for Hillary. That is the very core of "the base" (aka "alqaeida" in Arabic).
The rest of them are simply dishonest. They don't mind cheating and lying about it - it's what their Dear Leader has demanded of them. Balls to proclaim their status as cheaters are not really an issue; they have a shining orange example of how to pretend. OTOH I can't think of an instance of a Democrat winning a state or national election where fraud was credibly alleged to have played into the outcome, and the election was being run by the candidate.
People are getting sick of being dominated by the thieving minority, but the perversion of democracy is so nearly complete that there is little chance of getting rid of them... it's sad for anyone who grew up appreciating freedom and opportunity. Especially if one's parents risked their lives in wars to preserve the democratic system that is currently being dismantled by the extreme right.
 
Wait, Republicans are doing this so the poor can't vote? Are you saying all the poor states in the South can't vote because they are too poor?

Then why do you guys claim those "poor uneducated people" are the ones who vote for Trump?

Are they suppressing the poor vote or not?

But the poor R voters have drivers' licenses because they have to drive their F150s. The over-educated adjunct gender studies professors that always vote D don't because they take the bus and don't know how to avail themselves of the free voter either. Or something.

Close, but no cigar. As I've heard it explained, the poor white people (who vote Republican) have IDs because they can use the internet to look up where the DMV is. The poor black people (who vote Democrat) don't have IDs because the internet is inaccessible and too complicated for them. Its all explained in this video by helpful white liberal college kids.

P.S. Pay no attention to the last half of the video where the black people are talking out of line.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGmKHrWKMQ[/YOUTUBE]
 
Republicans "narrowly win" because those are the elections people are watching. The safe seats aren't newsworthy, the contested ones are--and contested ones are normally a narrow victory one way or the other. Thus you would expect Republican victories in the news to be close whether there were shenanigans or not.

Note that this is in no way proof there are no shenanigans. It's pretty clear that at least at the vote suppression level there are.
 
Bullshit. It's to make sure the poor can't vote. But Republicans don't have the balls to call it as it is, so they make up a phony crisis, specifically voter fraud running rampant



But because you only get your "facts" from youtube:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxK8h0mp0ZI[/youtube]

I figured using a fake TV show to address your fake problem seems appropriate.

Wait, Republicans are doing this so the poor can't vote? Are you saying all the poor states in the South can't vote because they are too poor?

Then why do you guys claim those "poor uneducated people" are the ones who vote for Trump?

Are they suppressing the poor vote or not?

Alabama Demands Voter ID—Then Closes Driver’s License Offices In Black Counties
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place.

Bullshit. It's to make sure the poor can't vote.

Has it occurred to you folks that both can be true at the same time? Voter ID laws make logical sense. Shenanigans like making it harder to get ID for black or poor people (post above this one) can then exploit that. Why not do the opposite of such shenanigans and make ID free and easy to get despite having no fixed address etc?
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place.

Bullshit. It's to make sure the poor can't vote.

Has it occurred to you folks that both can be true at the same time? Voter ID laws make logical sense. Shenanigans like making it harder to get ID for black or poor people (post above this one) can then exploit that. Why not do the opposite of such shenanigans and make ID free and easy to get despite having no fixed address etc?

Except there's not that much voter fraud that would justify a need for voter ID. In some states, the number of cases of voter ID are about the same as the number of Bigfoot sightings.

So the only effort to require Voter ID is from those who want to disenfranchise certain voters, who have no interest in making them free or easy to require.
 
Has it occurred to you folks that both can be true at the same time? Voter ID laws make logical sense. Shenanigans like making it harder to get ID for black or poor people (post above this one) can then exploit that. Why not do the opposite of such shenanigans and make ID free and easy to get despite having no fixed address etc?

Except there's not that much voter fraud that would justify a need for voter ID. In some states, the number of cases of voter ID are about the same as the number of Bigfoot sightings.

So the only effort to require Voter ID is from those who want to disenfranchise certain voters, who have no interest in making them free or easy to require.

I am not buying this argument, because voting is not the only reason people should have government ID. Any such ID with a photo should suffice for voting.

And this argument is kind of like saying you shouldn't lock your car door because your car hasn't been broken into.

And how can you know if fraudulent voting is a problem if you can't measure it?
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place. Democrats are against voter ID laws because they want anyone to be able to vote without an ID. To me, this is a form of cheating.

We have had voter ID in Georgia since the early oughts. While I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's kept anyone from voting in Georgia. Almost everyone here has a driver's license or a state ID. The reason I know this is because some of my former patients had to get a state ID before any doctor would see them. Afaik, physicians always ask for ID the first time you have an appointment. This is done to prevent insurance fraud. So, at least in Georgia, voter ID hasn't been a problem for voters, especially since it's been on the books for so many years.

But, seriously, voter fraud is something that almost never happens. When it does, it's usually due to a misunderstanding. For example, someone thinks they are registered but they aren't. I remember one case where a legal immigrant mistakenly believed she could vote. She ended up being arrested. I don't remember which state that was in but I did read about it. The Republicans use the voter fraud argument as a way to justify making it more difficult to vote. It's basically a scare tactic.

What is a problem in Georgia is voter suppression. Kemp did whatever he could to take people off the rolls, especially those who lived in majority black districts. He also supported closing down polling places that were in predominately poor minority districts, making it more difficult to get to the polls for those who don't have reliable transportation. For example, I live in a mostly white neighborhood, and my polling place is literally on the corner of my street, although I usually vote early, which is done in one location. In some poor counties, the polling places were 20 or more miles away from some of the people.

As far as the machines go, we are getting new ones that do have a paper receipt, but they haven't been installed in all counties yet. They are supposed to be in the entire state prior to the November election. The linked article should have mentioned that.

We now have a way to check and make sure we are currently registered to vote in Georgia. There's an Internet address where we can check our current ID. I have been encouraging some of my friends to check to see if there registrations are current.

It's hard to prove, but considering that our current POS governor refused to give up his position as SOS during the last election, considering that he was in the charge of the last election while he was running for governor, considering that he did a lot to remove people from the rolls, it's pretty hard not to believe that he was guilty of voter suppression for his own benefit.

Abrams was a much better candidate. When she held the minority leadership roll in the Georgia congress she was greatly respected by both parties. She was pragmatic and able to work across the aisle. And, imo, based on the time I spent reading her entire platform and attending one of her rallies, she is a brilliant, natural leader. She was very popular and had wide spread appeal across the state, even in many rural areas. She lost the election by less than 2 percent. It's hard to feel as if our elections are fair in Georgia. The state is much less conservative than some people seem to think, yet we have a governor who mirrors Trump.
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place. Democrats are against voter ID laws because they want anyone to be able to vote without an ID. To me, this is a form of cheating.

We have had voter ID in Georgia since the early oughts. While I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's kept anyone from voting in Georgia. Almost everyone here has a driver's license or a state ID. The reason I know this is because some of my former patients had to get a state ID before any doctor would see them. Afaik, physicians always ask for ID the first time you have an appointment. This is done to prevent insurance fraud. So, at least in Georgia, voter ID hasn't been a problem for voters, especially since it's been on the books for so many years.

But, seriously, voter fraud is something that almost never happens. When it does, it's usually due to a misunderstanding. For example, someone thinks they are registered but they aren't. I remember one case where a legal immigrant mistakenly believed she could vote. She ended up being arrested. I don't remember which state that was in but I did read about it. The Republicans use the voter fraud argument as a way to justify making it more difficult to vote. It's basically a scare tactic.

What is a problem in Georgia is voter suppression. Kemp did whatever he could to take people off the rolls, especially those who lived in majority black districts. He also supported closing down polling places that were in predominately poor minority districts, making it more difficult to get to the polls for those who don't have reliable transportation. For example, I live in a mostly white neighborhood, and my polling place is literally on the corner of my street, although I usually vote early, which is done in one location. In some poor counties, the polling places were 20 or more miles away from some of the people.

As far as the machines go, we are getting new ones that do have a paper receipt, but they haven't been installed in all counties yet. They are supposed to be in the entire state prior to the November election. The linked article should have mentioned that.

We now have a way to check and make sure we are currently registered to vote in Georgia. There's an Internet address where we can check our current ID. I have been encouraging some of my friends to check to see if there registrations are current.

It's hard to prove, but considering that our current POS governor refused to give up his position as SOS during the last election, considering that he was in the charge of the last election while he was running for governor, considering that he did a lot to remove people from the rolls, it's pretty hard not to believe that he was guilty of voter suppression for his own benefit.

Abrams was a much better candidate. When she held the minority leadership roll in the Georgia congress she was greatly respected by both parties. She was pragmatic and able to work across the aisle. And, imo, based on the time I spent reading her entire platform and attending one of her rallies, she is a brilliant, natural leader. She was very popular and had wide spread appeal across the state, even in many rural areas. She lost the election by less than 2 percent. It's hard to feel as if our elections are fair in Georgia. The state is much less conservative than some people seem to think, yet we have a governor who mirrors Trump.

Yes, we have not heard the last from Abrams. I listened to a speech that she made in a mostly empty city hall (broadcasted on C-span). She is a great speaker, very motivational. She's much more moderate that her foes portray. She will be back.
 
Republicans are for voter ID's to make sure no fraudulent voting is taking place.

Bullshit. It's to make sure the poor can't vote.

Has it occurred to you folks that both can be true at the same time? Voter ID laws make logical sense. Shenanigans like making it harder to get ID for black or poor people (post above this one) can then exploit that. Why not do the opposite of such shenanigans and make ID free and easy to get despite having no fixed address etc?

The thing is we have no evidence that the lack of an ID requirement causes a problem.

Around here the voter guide that gets mailed out serves as your ID. Possessing that shows that you can receive mail at that address. (Any substantial tampering by stealing guides would be noted in the number of people complaining about not getting the guides.) Any undue number of people at an address would be noted by the voter registration people. While this doesn't preclude one-off fraud it makes organized fraud very difficult and it makes even one-off fraud risky. Note that basically all the fraud you hear about is clearly bogus voter registrations that get rejected--this is people being paid per registration and submitting bogus ones to pad their paycheck, not an attempt to vote illegally.

Furthermore, many of the people who don't have ID are in a situation more complex than simply needing to go down to the DMV and get it--if you have no ID it's hard to prove who you are to get that first piece of ID. A poor person likely has only their driver's license/state ID card--and if that's stolen (while there is little reason to steal IDs themselves they're often carried in things like wallets and purses that thieves do want) they now have none.
 
Furthermore, many of the people who don't have ID are in a situation more complex than simply needing to go down to the DMV and get it--if you have no ID it's hard to prove who you are to get that first piece of ID. A poor person likely has only their driver's license/state ID card--and if that's stolen (while there is little reason to steal IDs themselves they're often carried in things like wallets and purses that thieves do want) they now have none.

As I wrote above, that sounds like a much bigger problem than just voting. It should be sorted out regardless of voting.
 
Furthermore, many of the people who don't have ID are in a situation more complex than simply needing to go down to the DMV and get it--if you have no ID it's hard to prove who you are to get that first piece of ID. A poor person likely has only their driver's license/state ID card--and if that's stolen (while there is little reason to steal IDs themselves they're often carried in things like wallets and purses that thieves do want) they now have none.

As I wrote above, that sounds like a much bigger problem than just voting. It should be sorted out regardless of voting.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. Canada has saved us again.
 
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