Restaurant wage increase pragmatism? - Increase prices / Nix tips.

[J842P]

Tipping waitstaff in America is merely paying for the service you are receiving. Unfortunately, due to the way the system evolved, free-loaders can choose to not tip and get away with it legally. But make no mistake, if you don't tip you are not paying for something which you are ethically obliged to pay for. You are just getting away with it because you can.

 

[bilby]

Tipping waitstaff in America is merely paying for the service you are receiving. Unfortunately, due to the way the system evolved, free-loaders can choose to not tip and get away with it legally. But make no mistake, if you don't tip you are not paying for something which you are ethically obliged to pay for. You are just getting away with it because you can.

Agreed. And any system where an employee can lawfully be denied some of their pay is a bad system. The law should ensure that people are paid for the work they do; If your boss decided to only pay you half of your wages, you could sue him. If a guy fled the restaurant without paying for his meal, he could be arrested and charged with theft. But for some reason it is considered perfectly OK to have a system where a waiter can be denied a large fraction of his wages without recourse, at the whim of some freeloader who is completely at liberty to bail out without paying for the service provided - as long as he pays for the food.

That's one ugly statement about how things are valued in the food service industry, that the food is considered to be worth protecting, while the waiters are not.

 

[J842P]

Having worked as a tipped server, I also would like to add that it emphatically does not improve the overall level of service that a customers will receive. Simply looking at the incentive structure you have built it should be obvious where there will be problems. It is basically a sales position where you are paid on commission, and that's how all servers who have been in the business long enough look at it. Imagine, for the sake of simplicity, I have a two table section. One table has a party of six and they all order drinks, starters and expensive entrees. The other table gets waters only and shares an entree. Who do you think will get my attention as a server? Now, if this were a real scenario most servers could handle two tables like this no problem, but if it were an equivalent scenario where the server's section was at capacity, it's going to be the two-person party that gets the minimum amount of service to make sure I don't get fired, and I will do everything to make the six-person party happy. If you give me a shit tip on a 20 dollar check, I do not really mind, especially when this other table has already spent 200 dollars and are asking me about dessert and after-dinner drinks. The two-top will get their water refills when I am sure the six-top is satisfied with the expensive wine they ordered.

This also leads to a situation where servers stereotype their tables based on past experiences, and will sort of "give up" on tables they presume will not spend much money, and probably wouldn't tip them well even if they did.

 

[J842P]

Tipping waitstaff in America is merely paying for the service you are receiving. Unfortunately, due to the way the system evolved, free-loaders can choose to not tip and get away with it legally. But make no mistake, if you don't tip you are not paying for something which you are ethically obliged to pay for. You are just getting away with it because you can.

Agreed. And any system where an employee can lawfully be denied some of their pay is a bad system. The law should ensure that people are paid for the work they do; If your boss decided to only pay you half of your wages, you could sue him. If a guy fled the restaurant without paying for his meal, he could be arrested and charged with theft. But for some reason it is considered perfectly OK to have a system where a waiter can be denied a large fraction of his wages without recourse, at the whim of some freeloader who is completely at liberty to bail out without paying for the service provided - as long as he pays for the food.

That's one ugly statement about how things are valued in the food service industry, that the food is considered to be worth protecting, while the waiters are not.

I agree. Unfortunately, it's a tough thing to change, and waiters would probably be screwed if the system were changed. First of all, waiters who work at mid-to-high end restaurants probably makes a very good wage, way above a minimum wage. If a law had been passed forcing my employer to pay me the minimum wage in my state and to do away with tipping, it is unlikely that I would be getting paid much above minimum wage because the cost to my employer for my services just jumped from 2.15 and hour to over 7 and hour. But now I'm stuck making around 7 an hour, when I was averaging over 15 an hour with tips.

 

[Bronzeage]

What better service is worth might be a good question, but since the tip is determined after the service is given, it really can't be called a "bribe."

Even more, in place where tipping is customary, it's part of a working person's compensation. Those who don't tip, are cheats. They have happily entered a restaurant where the compensation system for workers is well understood, but with no intention keeping their half of the obligation.

Whether this is a contempt for working people, or some other reason, I cannot say. I can say, I have no patience to listen to the moral or philosophical obfuscations they make to justify this act of petty miserliness.

If a person objects to tipping, there are many food vendors who are happy to toss a bag through a window. No tip is expected. Serving and cleanup are one's own responsibility, assuming this is a person who cleans up their own mess and doesn't leave it for the menial worker who sweeps the parking lot.

Yeah, just dig your head in the sand. Dig deep.

Do you mean to tell me you don't tip your server?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Having worked as a tipped server, I also would like to add that it emphatically does not improve the overall level of service that a customers will receive. Simply looking at the incentive structure you have built it should be obvious where there will be problems. It is basically a sales position where you are paid on commission, and that's how all servers who have been in the business long enough look at it. Imagine, for the sake of simplicity, I have a two table section. One table has a party of six and they all order drinks, starters and expensive entrees. The other table gets waters only and shares an entree. Who do you think will get my attention as a server? Now, if this were a real scenario most servers could handle two tables like this no problem, but if it were an equivalent scenario where the server's section was at capacity, it's going to be the two-person party that gets the minimum amount of service to make sure I don't get fired, and I will do everything to make the six-person party happy. If you give me a shit tip on a 20 dollar check, I do not really mind, especially when this other table has already spent 200 dollars and are asking me about dessert and after-dinner drinks. The two-top will get their water refills when I am sure the six-top is satisfied with the expensive wine they ordered.

Your scenario only applies in cases where the server is overloaded.

In practice, though, there can be a great difference between a server who treats customers well and one who doesn't.

 

[Juma]

Yeah, just dig your head in the sand. Dig deep.

Do you mean to tell me you don't tip your server?

No.

 

[bleubird]

Do you mean to tell me you don't tip your server?

No.

There is no minimum wage in Sweden,right? Wages are negotiated in each sector.Does this work for food service workers?

 

[Malintent]

for what? leaving the restaurant, free of dirty looks?

Better service.

Not sure what the local custom is where you are from... but everywhere in the world I have gone, if tips are part of the custom, they are provided after service is complete (when you received the bill). There is no promise to tip ahead of time.

So, how is it that you are able to retroactively receive better service after your meal is over?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Better service.

Not sure what the local custom is where you are from... but everywhere in the world I have gone, if tips are part of the custom, they are provided after service is complete (when you received the bill). There is no promise to tip ahead of time.

So, how is it that you are able to retroactively receive better service after your meal is over?

You eat there only once?

And even if there is no history a poor waiter will make a lot less than a good one--which will tend to drive the bad ones out.

 

[J842P]

Not sure what the local custom is where you are from... but everywhere in the world I have gone, if tips are part of the custom, they are provided after service is complete (when you received the bill). There is no promise to tip ahead of time.

So, how is it that you are able to retroactively receive better service after your meal is over?

You eat there only once?

And even if there is no history a poor waiter will make a lot less than a good one--which will tend to drive the bad ones out.

Actually, most research I've seen shows that people tip essentially the same amount every time they dine regardless of service. Plus, a server can make up for "quality" by going for "quantity". That is, servers will try to turn their tables quickly. This will happen if, for example, a server is stuck with a section with small tables - e.g. two tops. It all depends on a lot of factors, especially not the least of which is the quality of the establishment and the amount of business the establishment generates. If you are almost always on a wait, it is usually a better strategy to turn tables quickly than to try to deliver the best service at each table, which would usually require allowing people as much time as they want. Regardless, the single most important variable when it comes to determining how much you make as a waiter is the quality of your salesmanship. Servers that make the most money are the ones that can consistently push the high priced entrees and otherwise "upsell" any given order ("Would you like to add a house salad? Would you like to add goat cheese? This dish pairs well with this [expensive] wine.") It is the best salespeople that make the most money as servers, not necessarily the most attentive or friendliest (although salesmanship and charisma go hand-in-hand).

 

[ronburgundy]

Table service that is so poor that it warrants not tipping is rare. Usually the mistakes are in the kitchen or being understaffed, which is the restaurants fault and not the server's fault. Far more common than inattentive service is annoyingly over-attentive service where they bother you every 5 minutes asking "is everything okay?" This tradition of servers annoying you every few minutes means that when you do need something from them, its seen as impatient to call them over because it implies they haven't been attentive enough. I would rather servers get me my stuff then leave me alone for the rest of the meal unless I signal to them.

Getting rid of tipping, would likely push things in that direction.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Table service that is so poor that it warrants not tipping is rare. Usually the mistakes are in the kitchen or being understaffed, which is the restaurants fault and not the server's fault. Far more common than inattentive service is annoyingly over-attentive service where they bother you every 5 minutes asking "is everything okay?" This tradition of servers annoying you every few minutes means that when you do need something from them, its seen as impatient to call them over because it implies they haven't been attentive enough. I would rather servers get me my stuff then leave me alone for the rest of the meal unless I signal to them.

Getting rid of tipping, would likely push things in that direction.

I do agree that situations that warrant not tipping are very rare. That doesn't mean one can't vary one's tip based on how good the service was.