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“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"

My gosh this whole thread is just so straight up batshit crazy.
Is this your first day? ;)
I've been around here for well over a decade now, pretty much nonstop.

I just wasn't really expecting it to go *past eye lasers* so quickly with a new member.

Also, I'm unsure how this whole thread got past that point from where the title idea started.
I'm not even sure when it started. At some point it morphed into his second discovery, which Pood wanted all along. I hope to get back to his first discovery, which can change our world for the better as can our knowledge regarding the senses, but his first discovery—that lies locked behind the door of determinism—is more urgent.
I mean, principally to me there is a question to be answered among the discussion between libertarianism and determinism: one would imply a god and a heaven and *desert*, and the other doesn't. The other says "you want it? WORK FOR IT!"

I am a determinist, I see how wills and degrees of freedom interact to create this concept of "free will" in a sensible way, and I operate on that basis. This requires accepting some manner of every belief as "close to the truth" in some way.

The thing is, it really just sounds like Peacegirl is here to advertise for this guy's book, whether he asked her to or not.
There are easier ways to market this book than to be here. That never was the goal, although in order to understand the principles and how they extend, it would be reasonable to buy the book for $9.99 (I doubt if it would break the bank) in order to see the full blueprint in its entirety.
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
 
If the scientific method cannot help us to comprehend reality, then we have no means to comprehend reality, and your ideas, my ideas, Lessans's ideas, Newton's ideas, and everyone else's ideas are ALL pure nonsense.

Rejecting science is the nuclear option; It destroys the ideas you don't like, but it destroys the ideas you do like too - and just as comprehensively.

You can certainly decide to adopt a nihilist philosophy that avoids the conclusion that we see only the past, by destroying all ability to conclude anything about anything. But if you do, you also abdicate the right to assert that your alternative ideas have the slightest validity.
I think this bears belaboring what the scientific method is:

1. Have an idea.
2. Test whether that idea is true.
3. Adjust idea...
4. Go-to 2.

It's super simple. It's literally just "test your ideas", to reduce it all the way to child-speak.

To test you need a model that can be tested. peacegirl’s author doesn’t have one.
Yeah, it's pretty apparent that "light enters eyes, MAGIC HAPPENS, you know the thing is there now" is insufficient as a model.

At some point it morphed into his second discovery, which Pood wanted all along.
Well it's pretty hilarious he managed to pry it out of you. You deposed yourself and the author thoroughly.

I made some initial observations near the beginning of the thread until it became clear that you were here to preach, but the best way to depose a preacher is almost always to get them banging their drum about the flat earth or whatever.

There are easier ways to market this book than to be here... [But buy it now for 10bux]
The fact is, there are a lot of people that would seek to make a quick buck marketing a feel-good book talking about the great work.

Every 2-bit charlatan and crook and wannabe prophet is going to want to use the fact that everyone shares a desire for "the great work" to push their narrow vision of it and aggrandize themselves. Some people latch onto that as sycophants, because that was the whole point for most such people.

Most such people, however, take this approach because they are too weak-willed, weak-armed, or weak-brained to make any progress towards actually building it, or to understand what it is that we need to build. We do need leadership... But it's not by the guy sitting on his ass and trying to make money selling a religion that shits on the process of rigorous doubt, especially one that's beyond eye-lasers.

I would recommend you find a strange mirror that exists in this world, whose name is Ion. Look deep into this mirror made of words ostensibly spoken by Socrates and question who in this play you have been.
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
It doesn't change our genetic makeup or human nature (in fact, he proves our human nature is not free), but when the corollary to this is put into practice, everyone's life experience will be so much better. In fact, there will be no comparison to life that we experience today on this planet with war, crime, and hatred more prevalent than ever.
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
It doesn't change our genetic makeup or human nature (in fact, he proves our human nature is not free), but when the corollary to this is put into practice, everyone's life experience will be so much better. In fact, there will be no comparison to life that we experience today on this planet with war, crime, and hatred more prevalent than ever.


The question is: put what into practice? What exactly is the method or technique?
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
It doesn't change our genetic makeup or human nature (in fact, he proves our human nature is not free), but when the corollary to this is put into practice, everyone's life experience will be so much better. In fact, there will be no comparison to life that we experience today on this planet with war, crime, and hatred more prevalent than ever.


The question is: put what into practice? What exactly is the method or technique?
DBT, I gave people the first three chapters. There will be a huge change in human conduct as a result of this knowledge, but I cannot answer you in a sentence or two. It would never do this discovery justice.
 
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If the scientific method cannot help us to comprehend reality, then we have no means to comprehend reality, and your ideas, my ideas, Lessans's ideas, Newton's ideas, and everyone else's ideas are ALL pure nonsense.

Rejecting science is the nuclear option; It destroys the ideas you don't like, but it destroys the ideas you do like too - and just as comprehensively.

You can certainly decide to adopt a nihilist philosophy that avoids the conclusion that we see only the past, by destroying all ability to conclude anything about anything. But if you do, you also abdicate the right to assert that your alternative ideas have the slightest validity.
I think this bears belaboring what the scientific method is:

1. Have an idea.
2. Test whether that idea is true.
3. Adjust idea...
4. Go-to 2.

It's super simple. It's literally just "test your ideas", to reduce it all the way to child-speak.

To test you need a model that can be tested. peacegirl’s author doesn’t have one.
Yeah, it's pretty apparent that "light enters eyes, MAGIC HAPPENS, you know the thing is there now" is insufficient as a model.

At some point it morphed into his second discovery, which Pood wanted all along.
Well it's pretty hilarious he managed to pry it out of you. You deposed yourself and the author thoroughly.

I made some initial observations near the beginning of the thread until it became clear that you were here to preach, but the best way to depose a preacher is almost always to get them banging their drum about the flat earth or whatever.

There are easier ways to market this book than to be here... [But buy it now for 10bux]
The fact is, there are a lot of people that would seek to make a quick buck marketing a feel-good book talking about the great work.

Every 2-bit charlatan and crook and wannabe prophet is going to want to use the fact that everyone shares a desire for "the great work" to push their narrow vision of it and aggrandize themselves. Some people latch onto that as sycophants, because that was the whole point for most such people.

Most such people, however, take this approach because they are too weak-willed, weak-armed, or weak-brained to make any progress towards actually building it, or to understand what it is that we need to build. We do need leadership... But it's not by the guy sitting on his ass and trying to make money selling a religion that shits on the process of rigorous doubt, especially one that's beyond eye-lasers.

I would recommend you find a strange mirror that exists in this world, whose name is Ion. Look deep into this mirror made of words ostensibly spoken by Socrates and question who in this play you have been.
You are way too snarky for me. I refuse to be put on the defensive by your callous insinuations. I suggest you find a thread that is more to your liking.
 
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I have no problem with the scientific method, but there are limitations. Please don't take offense, but when some beliefs become so entrenched in present-day thinking, it's almost impossible to get people to even listen to anybody that says otherwise. They call you a crackpot, crazy, or a fundie. It feels very similar to the Christian belief that says Jesus was God incarnate. You could never convince a Christian otherwise, even when proof to the contrary is staring them in the face.
Does anyone know of a good irony meter repair shop in the Brisbane area?
 
I have no problem with the scientific method, but there are limitations. Please don't take offense, but when some beliefs become so entrenched in present-day thinking, it's almost impossible to get people to even listen to anybody that says otherwise. They call you a crackpot, crazy, or a fundie. It feels very similar to the Christian belief that says Jesus was God incarnate. You could never convince a Christian otherwise, even when proof to the contrary is staring them in the face.
Does anyone know of a good irony meter repair shop in the Brisbane area?

Brisbane Irony-Meter Repair Shop. Simple Google search.
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
It doesn't change our genetic makeup or human nature (in fact, he proves our human nature is not free), but when the corollary to this is put into practice, everyone's life experience will be so much better. In fact, there will be no comparison to life that we experience today on this planet with war, crime, and hatred more prevalent than ever.


The question is: put what into practice? What exactly is the method or technique?
DBT, I gave people the first three chapters. There will be a huge change in human conduct as a result of this knowledge, but I cannot answer you in a sentence or two. It would never do this discovery justice.

Sorry, but I didn't see anything that explains how this proposed transformation in human behaviour is achieved.
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
It doesn't change our genetic makeup or human nature (in fact, he proves our human nature is not free), but when the corollary to this is put into practice, everyone's life experience will be so much better. In fact, there will be no comparison to life that we experience today on this planet with war, crime, and hatred more prevalent than ever.


The question is: put what into practice? What exactly is the method or technique?
DBT, I gave people the first three chapters. There will be a huge change in human conduct as a result of this knowledge, but I cannot answer you in a sentence or two. It would never do this discovery justice.

Sorry, but I didn't see anything that explains how this proposed transformation in human behaviour is achieved.
This doesn’t add up.
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
It doesn't change our genetic makeup or human nature (in fact, he proves our human nature is not free), but when the corollary to this is put into practice, everyone's life experience will be so much better. In fact, there will be no comparison to life that we experience today on this planet with war, crime, and hatred more prevalent than ever.


The question is: put what into practice? What exactly is the method or technique?
DBT, I gave people the first three chapters. There will be a huge change in human conduct as a result of this knowledge, but I cannot answer you in a sentence or two. It would never do this discovery justice.

Sorry, but I didn't see anything that explains how this proposed transformation in human behaviour is achieved.
This doesn’t add up.

You may see it, others may not. It would help those who don't see how this revolution in human behaviour is achieved if you gave a description of the means or the method by which it is enabled. Light at the eye or instant seeing does not help.
 
Yeah, but see, it's not the fact that the light travels and traces a ray and takes a while to get there. As soon as it hits the eye, the brain goes to the god of the universe, cashes it in, and gets rewarded with instant knowledge of the thing in exchange for that photon /s.
 
Yeah, but see, it's not the fact that the light travels and traces a ray and takes a while to get there. As soon as it hits the eye, the brain goes to the god of the universe, cashes it in, and gets rewarded with instant knowledge of the thing in exchange for that photon /s.
Nah, It's instant. As long as the source is sufficiently large and luminous, the brain doesn't need to wait for the ray to hit the eye; God gives out the knowledge on tick, and the brain tells the eye to see the source, long before the ray arrives.

Allegedly.
 
But how or what does the book add to our understanding of decision making and its drivers, human nature, behaviour, environment, life experience, genetic makeup, etc?
It doesn't change our genetic makeup or human nature (in fact, he proves our human nature is not free), but when the corollary to this is put into practice, everyone's life experience will be so much better. In fact, there will be no comparison to life that we experience today on this planet with war, crime, and hatred more prevalent than ever.


The question is: put what into practice? What exactly is the method or technique?
DBT, I gave people the first three chapters. There will be a huge change in human conduct as a result of this knowledge, but I cannot answer you in a sentence or two. It would never do this discovery justice.

Sorry, but I didn't see anything that explains how this proposed transformation in human behaviour is achieved.
This doesn’t add up.

You may see it, others may not. It would help those who don't see how this revolution in human behaviour is achieved if you gave a description of the means or the method by which it is enabled. Light at the eye or instant seeing does not help.
DBT, I hope you read the book one day and then we can discuss it. I offered everyone the first three chapters. If no one meets me halfway, the conversation will be unproductive and people will misconstrue whatever I say because there will be too many gaps. I don’t know what’s so hard about reading. I can’t spoon-feed this to people. If they think there’s nothing there, then it’s time for me to leave.
 
Yeah, but see, it's not the fact that the light travels and traces a ray and takes a while to get there. As soon as it hits the eye, the brain goes to the god of the universe, cashes it in, and gets rewarded with instant knowledge of the thing in exchange for that photon /s.
Nah, It's instant. As long as the source is sufficiently large and luminous, the brain doesn't need to wait for the ray to hit the eye; God gives out the knowledge on tick, and the brain tells the eye to see the source, long before the ray arrives.

Allegedly.
That's even nuttier. Like, hilariously verifiably wrong. It sounds like any of those nutter butters that claimed near the middle/end of their life that any other manner of dubious enlightenment they had achieved granted them psychic superpowers (see any of Crowley, Hubbard, this guy, no robots...)

It's magical escalation when it seems mundane promises just aren't getting the cult built.
 
Yeah, but see, it's not the fact that the light travels and traces a ray and takes a while to get there. As soon as it hits the eye, the brain goes to the god of the universe, cashes it in, and gets rewarded with instant knowledge of the thing in exchange for that photon /s.
Nah, It's instant. As long as the source is sufficiently large and luminous, the brain doesn't need to wait for the ray to hit the eye; God gives out the knowledge on tick, and the brain tells the eye to see the source, long before the ray arrives.

Allegedly.
That's even nuttier. Like, hilariously verifiably wrong. It sounds like any of those nutter butters that claimed near the middle/end of their life that any other manner of dubious enlightenment they had achieved granted them psychic superpowers.
You’ve lost all objectivity Jarhyn. You are not gods gift to knowledge.. You are just an arrogant individual who thinks her knowledge is better than anyone else’s and you, with your prestige that you think you’ve earned,, is filled with holes. Well guess what? You are completely and utterly mistaken but you will refuse to question your own error. That would make you appear like an idiot and you cannot risk that. Stop trying so hard to showcase your brilliance. It’s gone flat and you are making a fool of yourself for anyone who can see this through this charade. 🫤
 
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Yeah, but see, it's not the fact that the light travels and traces a ray and takes a while to get there. As soon as it hits the eye, the brain goes to the god of the universe, cashes it in, and gets rewarded with instant knowledge of the thing in exchange for that photon /s.
Nah, It's instant. As long as the source is sufficiently large and luminous, the brain doesn't need to wait for the ray to hit the eye; God gives out the knowledge on tick, and the brain tells the eye to see the source, long before the ray arrives.

Allegedly.
That's even nuttier. Like, hilariously verifiably wrong. It sounds like any of those nutter butters that claimed near the middle/end of their life that any other manner of dubious enlightenment they had achieved granted them psychic superpowers.
You’ve lost all objectivity Jarhyn. You are not gods gift to knowledge.. You are just an arrogant individual who thinks her knowledge is better than anyone else’s and you, with your prestige that you think you’ve earned,, is filled with holes. Well guess what? You are completely and utterly mistaken but you will refuse to question your own error. That would make you appear like an idiot and you cannot risk that. Stop trying so hard to showcase your brilliance. It’s gone flat and you are making a fool of yourself for anyone who can see this through this charade. 🫤
Sounds like someone needs to take their own advice.

I'm just describing what is a commonly observed behavior among cultists: the belief that their dubious enlightenment gives them psychic powers.
 
Yeah, but see, it's not the fact that the light travels and traces a ray and takes a while to get there. As soon as it hits the eye, the brain goes to the god of the universe, cashes it in, and gets rewarded with instant knowledge of the thing in exchange for that photon /s.
Nah, It's instant. As long as the source is sufficiently large and luminous, the brain doesn't need to wait for the ray to hit the eye; God gives out the knowledge on tick, and the brain tells the eye to see the source, long before the ray arrives.

Allegedly.
That's even nuttier. Like, hilariously verifiably wrong. It sounds like any of those nutter butters that claimed near the middle/end of their life that any other manner of dubious enlightenment they had achieved granted them psychic superpowers.
You’ve lost all objectivity Jarhyn. You are not gods gift to knowledge.. You are just an arrogant individual who thinks her knowledge is better than anyone else’s and you, with your prestige that you think you’ve earned,, is filled with holes. Well guess what? You are completely and utterly mistaken but you will refuse to question your own error. That would make you appear like an idiot and you cannot risk that. Stop trying so hard to showcase your brilliance. It’s gone flat and you are making a fool of yourself for anyone who can see this through this charade. 🫤

Stop using ad homs or I will report the whole bloody lot of them.

Once again, you are utterly clueless of how science works. You are a magical thinker, like a creationist. You think science is personal, that it is decided by authority. Well, it isn’t. And in any case, your writer is not an authority on ANYTHING. In fact, he is UTTERLY CLUELESS of the subject matter about which he so pompously pontificates.

Any book that states that the eye is not a sense organ and that light is both at the eye, and not at the eye, at the same time, is utterly worthless baloney that goes straight to the trash heap. And that’s not because of anyone’s “prestige“ or “authority,” but because the claims are demonstrably daft, no matter what the credentials of the writer making them.
 
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