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“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"

now here is the text you posted just upthread:

View attachment 48279
You misunderstood what he wrote. We would not see the LIGHT FROM THE SUN, which is true.

In this thread, you posted a version of the text that says if God turned on the sun at noon, we would not see it for eight minutes.
No Pood, we would not see the LIGHT FROM THE SUN for 8 minutes. Why did you leave out the word "light?"
Meanwhile, you defended the opposite claim — that if God turned on the sun at noon, we would see it instantly.
He wrote, if the Sun exploded, we would see the explosion instantly, which is correct (if he is right).
The opposite claim is contained in a different version of the text, which you posted and defended at FF, and is reproduced by me above.
What other version? They all say the same thing. Stop trying to confuse people. He was very clear about light and sight.
These totally opposite claims about the same subject are, obviously, mutually exclusive. How do you propose to account for this?
They are not opposite claims, so I don't have to account for anything. It is YOU that is trying to make it appear contradictory.
 
now here is the text you posted just upthread:

View attachment 48279
You misunderstood what he wrote. We would not see the LIGHT FROM THE SUN, which is true.

In this thread, you posted a version of the text that says if God turned on the sun at noon, we would not see it for eight minutes.
No Pood, we would not see the LIGHT FROM THE SUN for 8 minutes. Why did you leave out the word "light?"
Meanwhile, you defended the opposite claim — that if God turned on the sun at noon, we would see it instantly.
He wrote, if the Sun exploded, we would see the explosion instantly, which is correct (if he is right).
The opposite claim is contained in a different version of the text, which you posted and defended at FF, and is reproduced by me above.
What other version? They all say the same thing. Stop trying to confuse people. He was very clear about light and sight.
These totally opposite claims about the same subject are, obviously, mutually exclusive. How do you propose to account for this?
They are not opposite claims, so I don't have to account for anything. It is YOU that is trying to make it appear contradictory.
:hysterical::ROFLMAO::confused2:
 
OK, everyone. We would see the sun instantly if God turned it on at noon, but we would not see light from the sun for eight minurtes.

All clear? :D
 
there’s no travel time when the eyes work the opposite way from what you believe.
To pick just one element from the fractal wrongness here; Why would there be no travel time if the eyes work "the opposite way"?

That's like saying it takes an hour to drive to Nerang, but if I was going the opposite way, it wouldn't take any time at all. But we observe that it actually takes an hour to drive here from Nerang.
 
OK, everyone. We would see the sun instantly if God turned it on at noon, but we would not see light from the sun for eight minurtes.

All clear? :D
That's a lot different Pood and you know it. Did you leave out light on purpose? I wouldn't be surprised.
 
there’s no travel time when the eyes work the opposite way from what you believe.
To pick just one element from the fractal wrongness here; Why would there be no travel time if the eyes work "the opposite way"?

That's like saying it takes an hour to drive to Nerang, but if I was going the opposite way, it wouldn't take any time at all. But we observe that it actually takes an hour to drive here from Nerang.
No bilby, light traveling to the moon and back would be the same speed and distance each way. We are talking about how the eyes work ONLY. He demonstrated why he believed we see in real time. It makes absolute sense, but the problem is he is he is an unknown, someone who couldn't possibly have made a true discovery. Anybody who went against the grain of the thinking of Galileo's day, was ostracized, or worse. I hope you are not like the Catholic Church who told Galileo to stop discussing his ideas, or else. Throwing out his claims without a thorough study of his work is just as bad. This is what stops progress.

Galileo: His intellectual arguments, mathematical models and telescopic data failed to impress the Catholic authorities, and in February of 1616, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine took him aside and privately warned him to comply with the orders of the Church and stop writing or discussing his ideas—or else.
 
there’s no travel time when the eyes work the opposite way from what you believe.
To pick just one element from the fractal wrongness here; Why would there be no travel time if the eyes work "the opposite way"?

That's like saying it takes an hour to drive to Nerang, but if I was going the opposite way, it wouldn't take any time at all. But we observe that it actually takes an hour to drive here from Nerang.
No bilby, light traveling to the moon and back would be the same speed and distance each way. We are talking about how the eyes work ONLY. He demonstrated why he believed we see in real time. It makes absolute sense, but the problem is he is he is an unknown, someone who couldn't possibly have made a true discovery. Anybody who went against the grain of the thinking of Galileo's day, was ostracized, or worse. I hope you are not like the Catholic Church who told Galileo to stop discussing his ideas, or else. Throwing out his claims without a thorough study of his work is just as bad. This is what stops progress.

Galileo: His intellectual arguments, mathematical models and telescopic data failed to impress the Catholic authorities, and in February of 1616, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine took him aside and privately warned him to comply with the orders of the Church and stop writing or discussing his ideas—or else.
"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

The problem is not that he's an unknown, an iconoclast, a maverick, a contrarian, or an outsider.

The problem is that he is wrong.

His idea can be, and has been, tested against reality, and found to be false.

Galileo was abused by the church for his heresies; But he wasn't disproven, and his ideas did become widely accepted - not because he was a heretic, but because he was not wrong.
 
Now suddenly the author is Galileo. :rolleyes:

Although the history of Galileo and the church is a bit more nuanced than often presented. But that is another topic.
 
In fact, Bellarmine ordered Galileo not to teach that the Copernican heliocentrism was literally true, but said it was OK to teach it as a mathematical calculational device. Galileo agreed to this, but later apparently went back on his promise. But again, that is a separate topic, intriguing its own right.
 
OK, everyone. We would see the sun instantly if God turned it on at noon, but we would not see light from the sun for eight minurtes.

All clear? :D
That's a lot different Pood and you know it. Did you leave out light on purpose? I wouldn't be surprised.
Perhaps you could explain the difference, peacegirl.
 
OK, everyone. We would see the sun instantly if God turned it on at noon, but we would not see light from the sun for eight minurtes.

All clear? :D
That's a lot different Pood and you know it. Did you leave out light on purpose? I wouldn't be surprised.
Perhaps you could explain the difference, peacegirl.
Seeing light reach us where we can see it arriving after 81/2 minutes is not the same as seeing the Sun explode in real time. You would understand the difference if you tried to follow him even a little bit, but you have failed again. You were so excited because you thought you caught him in a contradiction (or worse, you thought I changed the text), but it backfired on you, so what do you have left that you didn’t already lie about?
 
there’s no travel time when the eyes work the opposite way from what you believe.
To pick just one element from the fractal wrongness here; Why would there be no travel time if the eyes work "the opposite way"?

That's like saying it takes an hour to drive to Nerang, but if I was going the opposite way, it wouldn't take any time at all. But we observe that it actually takes an hour to drive here from Nerang.
It's not the same thing. Did you not read his demonstration as to what is going on? Probably not.
 
now here is the text you posted just upthread:

View attachment 48279
You misunderstood what he wrote. We would not see the LIGHT FROM THE SUN, which is true.

In this thread, you posted a version of the text that says if God turned on the sun at noon, we would not see it for eight minutes. Meanwhile, you defended the opposite claim — that if God turned on the sun at noon, we would see it instantly.

The opposite claim is contained in a different version of the text, which you posted and defended at FF, and is reproduced by me above. .
No it isn't. I know exactly what he said and why he said it. No matter how you try to discredit him, you can't do it because he was very clear that we would see light after 8 minutes, but if the Sun exploded (it met the conditions of brightness and size), we would see it instantly. There's no conflict here.
These totally opposite claims about the same subject are, obviously, mutually exclusive. How do you propose to account for this?
You're just wrong, period. There's no point in defending him against someone who is trying so hard (without proof) to make his important work appear contradictory.
 
there’s no travel time when the eyes work the opposite way from what you believe.
To pick just one element from the fractal wrongness here; Why would there be no travel time if the eyes work "the opposite way"?

That's like saying it takes an hour to drive to Nerang, but if I was going the opposite way, it wouldn't take any time at all. But we observe that it actually takes an hour to drive here from Nerang.
No bilby, light traveling to the moon and back would be the same speed and distance each way. We are talking about how the eyes work ONLY. He demonstrated why he believed we see in real time. It makes absolute sense, but the problem is he is he is an unknown, someone who couldn't possibly have made a true discovery. Anybody who went against the grain of the thinking of Galileo's day, was ostracized, or worse. I hope you are not like the Catholic Church who told Galileo to stop discussing his ideas, or else. Throwing out his claims without a thorough study of his work is just as bad. This is what stops progress.

Galileo: His intellectual arguments, mathematical models and telescopic data failed to impress the Catholic authorities, and in February of 1616, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine took him aside and privately warned him to comply with the orders of the Church and stop writing or discussing his ideas—or else.
"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
That's why it's very important to distinguish between Bozo the clown and Einstein.
The problem is not that he's an unknown, an iconoclast, a maverick, a contrarian, or an outsider.
Oh but it does. He was all of these things, but he was never given a fair chance to demonstrate his findings. He was not the typical academic who came from a highly respected university which caused people to be uninterested in what he had to say. There was no way he could have brought his discovery to light in his lifetime. The same thing happened to Gregor Mendel and others. How can you even talk about him in this derogatory way when you don't understand anything about his observations or why he came to these conclusions. Do you understand why he believed the eyes are not a sense organ (explain it to me) or why it matters? Do you understand why man's will is not free, or are you just a run of the mill skeptic?
The problem is that he is wrong.
Says bilby who is now the arbiter of truth. :D
His idea can be, and has been, tested against reality, and found to be false.
No one tested this version of how the brain works in relation to sight, so you're wrong again.
Galileo was abused by the church for his heresies; But he wasn't disproven, and his ideas did become widely accepted - not because he was a heretic, but because he was not wrong.
The Catholics thought they were right based on what they believed to be true using their methods to determine this. It's the same thing here. Scientists have made up their minds that their evidence is airtight and that what we SEE must be delayed because light travels, but they never took into account that their proof may not be proof at all. Now anyone who disagrees with this "fact" ( :unsure: ) is considered to be a crank or a flat earther. This is no different than how the Catholic Church acted toward Galileo, even though the circumstances were different.
 
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OK, everyone. We would see the sun instantly if God turned it on at noon, but we would not see light from the sun for eight minurtes.

All clear? :D
That's a lot different Pood and you know it. Did you leave out light on purpose? I wouldn't be surprised.
Perhaps you could explain the difference, peacegirl.
Seeing light reach us where we can see it arriving after 81/2 minutes is not the same as seeing the Sun explode in real time. You would understand the difference if you tried to follow him even a little bit, but you have failed again. You were so excited because you thought you caught him in a contradiction (or worse, you thought I changed the text), but it backfired on you, so what do you have left that you didn’t already lie about?

Calling people liars is a violation of the rules. And yes, you did change the text. The same idea is presented two different, contradictory, and mutually exclusive ways. There is no difference between “seeing the sun,” and “seeing the light from the sun,” because we do not ever see light at all. We see the source of the light (the sun in this case) or objects that the light reflects of off. Since that is the case, the two passages are directly contradictory.
 
there’s no travel time when the eyes work the opposite way from what you believe.
To pick just one element from the fractal wrongness here; Why would there be no travel time if the eyes work "the opposite way"?

That's like saying it takes an hour to drive to Nerang, but if I was going the opposite way, it wouldn't take any time at all. But we observe that it actually takes an hour to drive here from Nerang.
No bilby, light traveling to the moon and back would be the same speed and distance each way. We are talking about how the eyes work ONLY. He demonstrated why he believed we see in real time. It makes absolute sense, but the problem is he is he is an unknown, someone who couldn't possibly have made a true discovery. Anybody who went against the grain of the thinking of Galileo's day, was ostracized, or worse. I hope you are not like the Catholic Church who told Galileo to stop discussing his ideas, or else. Throwing out his claims without a thorough study of his work is just as bad. This is what stops progress.

Galileo: His intellectual arguments, mathematical models and telescopic data failed to impress the Catholic authorities, and in February of 1616, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine took him aside and privately warned him to comply with the orders of the Church and stop writing or discussing his ideas—or else.
"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
That's why it's very important to distinguish between Bozo the clown and Einstein.

Says the person who has stated she rejects the theory of relativity.
The problem is not that he's an unknown, an iconoclast, a maverick, a contrarian, or an outsider.
Oh but it does. He was all of these things, but he was never given a fair chance to demonstrate his findings. He was not the typical academic who came from a highly respected university which caused people to be uninterested in what he had to say. There was no way he could have brought his discovery to light in his lifetime. The same thing happened to Gregor Mendel and others. How can you even talk about him in this derogatory way when you don't understand anything about his observations or why he came to these conclusions. Do you understand why he believed the eyes are not a sense organ (explain it to me) or why it matters? Do you understand why man's will is not free, or are you just a run of the mill skeptic?
The problem is that he is wrong.
Says bilby who is now the arbiter of truth. :D
He never said he was the arbiter of truth. It is you who are saying that the author, with his daft ranting, is the arbiter of truth.
His idea can be, and has been, tested against reality, and found to be false.
No one tested this version of how the brain works in relation to sight, so you're wrong again.

There is no version to test. You have offered no explanatory model of how this nutty idea is supposed to work. We see, because something is “big enough, and bright enough, to be seen” is NOT an explanatory model.

Galileo was abused by the church for his heresies; But he wasn't disproven, and his ideas did become widely accepted - not because he was a heretic, but because he was not wrong.
The Catholics thought they were right based on what they believed to be true using their methods to determine this. It's the same thing here. Scientists have made up their minds that their evidence is airtight and that what we SEE must be delayed because light travels, but they never took into account that their proof may not be proof at all. Now anyone who disagrees with this "fact" ( :unsure: ) is considered to be a crank or a flat earther. This is no different than how the Catholic Church acted toward Galileo, even though the circumstances were different.
No, Galileo had an empirical demonstration that he was right. You’ve got nothing, just a daft, empty claim that is contradicted by all empirical evidence. Your author is not Galileo or Einstein, he is Bozo.
 
OK, everyone. We would see the sun instantly if God turned it on at noon, but we would not see light from the sun for eight minurtes.

All clear? :D
That's a lot different Pood and you know it. Did you leave out light on purpose? I wouldn't be surprised.
Perhaps you could explain the difference, peacegirl.
Seeing light reach us where we can see it arriving after 81/2 minutes is not the same as seeing the Sun explode in real time. You would understand the difference if you tried to follow him even a little bit, but you have failed again. You were so excited because you thought you caught him in a contradiction (or worse, you thought I changed the text), but it backfired on you, so what do you have left that you didn’t already lie about?

Calling people liars is a violation of the rules. And yes, you did change the text.
You are a liar and if they want to ban me, that's fine. If you're not a liar, prove it Pood. To think that you can call me a liar by telling me I changed the text regarding light, is a big fat lie. You're not going to get away with this. A double standard if I ever saw one. :angry:
The same idea is presented two different, contradictory, and mutually exclusive ways. There is no difference between “seeing the sun,” and “seeing the light from the sun,”
It's a huge difference. It is what makes it noncontradictory. But, of course, you can't make sense of it because you are too set in your belief that he must have been wrong. If he turns out to be right, you will have to deal with the guilt of what you did to him to hurt his reputation in ff.
because we do not ever see light at all. We see the source of the light (the sun in this case) or objects that the light reflects of off. Since that is the case, the two passages are directly contradictory.
We do see light when it reaches us 81/2 minutes later. We see it every day when nighttime turns to morning. Why did he distinguish between travel time and the Sun exploding? Because they are not the same. One we see instantly (if he is right about the eyes and the brain) because the Sun exploding meets the requirements of brightness and size while seeing each other does not meet the requirements of brightness and size because there's no light here (it's still traveling for 81/2 minutes) in which to see each other. What is it you still don't understand?
 
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there’s no travel time when the eyes work the opposite way from what you believe.
To pick just one element from the fractal wrongness here; Why would there be no travel time if the eyes work "the opposite way"?

That's like saying it takes an hour to drive to Nerang, but if I was going the opposite way, it wouldn't take any time at all. But we observe that it actually takes an hour to drive here from Nerang.
No bilby, light traveling to the moon and back would be the same speed and distance each way. We are talking about how the eyes work ONLY. He demonstrated why he believed we see in real time. It makes absolute sense, but the problem is he is he is an unknown, someone who couldn't possibly have made a true discovery. Anybody who went against the grain of the thinking of Galileo's day, was ostracized, or worse. I hope you are not like the Catholic Church who told Galileo to stop discussing his ideas, or else. Throwing out his claims without a thorough study of his work is just as bad. This is what stops progress.

Galileo: His intellectual arguments, mathematical models and telescopic data failed to impress the Catholic authorities, and in February of 1616, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine took him aside and privately warned him to comply with the orders of the Church and stop writing or discussing his ideas—or else.
"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
That's why it's very important to distinguish between Bozo the clown and Einstein.

Says the person who has stated she rejects the theory of relativity.
The problem is not that he's an unknown, an iconoclast, a maverick, a contrarian, or an outsider.
Oh but it does. He was all of these things, but he was never given a fair chance to demonstrate his findings. He was not the typical academic who came from a highly respected university which caused people to be uninterested in what he had to say. There was no way he could have brought his discovery to light in his lifetime. The same thing happened to Gregor Mendel and others. How can you even talk about him in this derogatory way when you don't understand anything about his observations or why he came to these conclusions. Do you understand why he believed the eyes are not a sense organ (explain it to me) or why it matters? Do you understand why man's will is not free, or are you just a run of the mill skeptic?
The problem is that he is wrong.
Says bilby who is now the arbiter of truth. :D
He never said he was the arbiter of truth. It is you who are saying that the author, with his daft ranting, is the arbiter of truth.
His idea can be, and has been, tested against reality, and found to be false.
No one tested this version of how the brain works in relation to sight, so you're wrong again.

There is no version to test. You have offered no explanatory model of how this nutty idea is supposed to work. We see, because something is “big enough, and bright enough, to be seen” is NOT an explanatory model.

Galileo was abused by the church for his heresies; But he wasn't disproven, and his ideas did become widely accepted - not because he was a heretic, but because he was not wrong.
The Catholics thought they were right based on what they believed to be true using their methods to determine this. It's the same thing here. Scientists have made up their minds that their evidence is airtight and that what we SEE must be delayed because light travels, but they never took into account that their proof may not be proof at all. Now anyone who disagrees with this "fact" ( :unsure: ) is considered to be a crank or a flat earther. This is no different than how the Catholic Church acted toward Galileo, even though the circumstances were different.
No, Galileo had an empirical demonstration that he was right. You’ve got nothing, just a daft, empty claim'
Says Pood who hasn't shown me where his claim in any of his books are contradictory and where he lies about me changing the text.
that is contradicted by all empirical evidence. Your author is not Galileo or Einstein, he is Bozo.
Shut up Pood. If you say this again, I will not talk to you. You are a jerk.
 
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