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“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"

There is a way to eliminate war and crime once the truth of determinism is confirmed by science.
Then we are shit out of luck, because confirming things is not one of the capabilities of the scientific method.
There are ways to confirm things or scientists wouldn't be trying to do just that.
Why do you think that "scientists" are trying to do that? Have you asked them?

Science is a technique for ruling ideas out. It doesn't confirm anything, except "Yes, I really was wrong".
It does both. By ruling something out, it confirms the other. In doing so, certain things are considered to be true, which is why people are so taken aback when he challenges what has been accepted as scientific fact for so long.

It’s true they could get things wrong
Everyone always gets things wrong. "Scientists" are not special people who never make errors (and nor are autodidactic authors of bizarre and easily disproven claims about vision).
You aren't trying to understand his reasoning. Can you explain why he said man's will is not free? I don't think you read anything. Did you? Did you see if your dogs recognized you on a computer screen with no movement or sound?
such as the belief the eyes work like the other four senses
Literally nobody believes this. Not only is the idea that the senses number 5 a gross error; But none of the senses work like the others - or they would be the same sense.
The fact that nobody believes the eyes aren't a sense organ is not proof that the eyes ARE a sense organ. The fact that most people don't believe in determinism is not proof that man does not have free will. I am not using an appeal to popularity.
The sense of touch works the same way in the fingers as in the toes, so we don't say we have a sense of "finger touch", and another of "toe touch"; We just say we sense "touch".
By the same token, we just say, "I see this," but the word sense has a specific meaning. He explained that putting the eyes in the same category as hearing or touch would be analogous to putting a potato in the same category as a fruit. Why do we classify anything if not to try to understand the mechanism as to how something works?
, but there are many things they’ve gotten right.
No, just things they haven't found the wrong parts of, yet. Much of it might be correct, but it will never be confirmed.
You are right to a degree because there is a lot hypothesizing in science. Much is thrown out, but much is kept because it works and has practical application.
Nust rendered ever more plausible by our failure to prove it to be false.
It may be true that something appears more plausible by the failure to prove it to be false, but in this case, the claim that the eyes are a sense organ may not to be as plausible as once thought because it IS being proven false.
Anything is possible, when you don't understand how anything works.
I never said anything is possible.
I never said you did.
That's what I thought you implied. I'm not a gullible individual. I'm a skeptic by nature.
We know that’s not true but that certainly doesn’t mean that there aren’t things that ARE possible.
And that certainly doesn't mean that a particular thing you want to be possible, actually is.
It isn't that I WANT a particular thing to be possible that makes it true. If that were the case, I would be spreading woo woo. 🙀
 
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There is a way to eliminate war and crime once the truth of determinism is confirmed by science.
Then we are shit out of luck, because confirming things is not one of the capabilities of the scientific method.
There are ways to confirm things or scientists wouldn't be trying to do just that.
Why do you think that "scientists" are trying to do that? Have you asked them?

Science is a technique for ruling ideas out. It doesn't confirm anything, except "Yes, I really was wrong".
It does both. By ruling something out, it confirms the other.

No, it does not. There could be potentially an infinite number of theories that explain a set of data. It’s called theory underdetermination. Science does not confirm stuff.

You wouldn't be so furious about his claim that the eyes are not a sense organ. It's an established fact, according to science.

The bold is ad hominem.
It’s true they could get things wrong
Everyone always gets things wrong. "Scientists" are not special people who never make errors (and nor are autodidactic authors of bizarre and easily disproven claims about vision).
You aren't trying to understand his reasons at all. Can you explain his reasoning as to why man's will is not free? I don't think you read what I posted. I'm curious. Did you? And did you see if your dogs are to recognize you on a computer screen with no movement or sound? Don't evade my question.

LOL, nobody is evading anything, except you.
such as the belief the eyes work like the other four senses
Literally nobody believes this. Not only is the idea that the senses number 5 a gross error; But none of the senses work like the others - or they would be the same sense.
The fact that nobody believes the eyes aren't a sense organ is not proof that the eyes ARE a sense organ. The fact that most people don't believe in determinism is not proof that man does not have free will. I am not using an appeal to popularity.

It is not an appeal to popularity. It’s an appeal to SCIENCE.
The sense of touch works the same way in the fingers as in the toes, so we don't say we have a sense of "finger touch", and another of "toe touch"; We just say we sense "touch".
By the same token, we just say, "I see this," but the word sense has a specific meaning. He explained that putting the eyes in the same category as hearing or touch would be analogous to putting a potato in the same category as a fruit.

He “explained” nothing of the kind; he simply baselessly asserted it.
Why do we classify anything if not to try to understand the mechanism as to how something works?

Still waiting for you to supply the “mechanism” by which his daft claim works.,
, but there are many things they’ve gotten right.
No, just things they haven't found the wrong parts of, yet. Much of it might be correct, but it will never be confirmed.
You are right to a degree because there is a lot hypothesizing in science. Much is thrown out, but much is kept because it works and has practical application.
Nust rendered ever more plausible by our failure to prove it to be false.
It may be true that something appears more plausible by the failure to prove it to be false, but in this case, the claim that the eyes are a sense organ may not to be as plausible as once thought because it IS being proven false.

Oh? Proven by whom? Certainly not by your writer.

Anything is possible, when you don't understand how anything works.
I never said anything is possible.
I never said you did.
That's what I thought you implied. I'm not a gullible individual. I'm a skeptic by nature.

Uh-huh.
We know that’s not true but that certainly doesn’t mean that there aren’t things that ARE possible.
And that certainly doesn't mean that a particular thing you want to be possible, actually is.
It isn't that I WANT a particular thing to be possible that makes it true. If that were the case, I would be spreading woo woo. 🙀

Which in fact is what you are doing.
 
Here's your thinking: How dare he say that science wasn't right about something that has been accepted as fact for so long. You need more than that to prove him wrong.

Another ad hom to report when I find the time.
You keep saying that Lessans was not a scientist. I believe this very well may have to do with your thought process because it would bring into question many things that are dependent on delayed time. And I don't think you have grasped why man's will is not free and why the compatibilist definition of free will does not take into account our internal drives and impulses (like DBT correctly said). Just because we don't have a gun to our head, or we don't have OCD or a drug addiction, doesn't mean that we have any more of a free choice than the drug addict. It's just that the compulsion to eat eggs for breakfast rather than cereal isn't as strong as a person who is on drugs and needs a fix, but it does not change our movement, which can only go in one direction whether we are scratching an itch or choosing between two or more options.

Just because some differences are so obviously superior in value where you are concerned that no hesitation is required to decide which is preferable, while other differences need a more careful consideration, does not change the direction of life which moves always towards greater satisfaction than what the present position offers. You must bear in mind that what one person judges good or bad for himself doesn’t make it so for others, especially when it is remembered that a juxtaposition of differences in each case presents alternatives that affect choice.

Indeed, they are just daft claims, because he offers no MECHANISM for how the eyes are supposed to work under his nutty scenario. Stuff like “we see, when something is big enough and bright enough to be seen,” is not an explanatory mechanism. You were schooled on this many times at FF and other boards as well.
That was not his proof. In fact, he didn't even have this in all of his books but he did have his claim that the eyes and brain don't function like the other four senses. I refuse to listen to you Pood. You don't understand his evidence, or you have a block (I'm not sure which) as to why man's will is not free and why the eyes don't function like the other four senses. If you could, you would point out exactly where he was wrong, but all you do is keep saying that he was wrong over and over with no explanation as to why.

All of the above is ad hominem as well. And yes, I and many others have repeatedly pointed out exactly where he was wrong. At FF, The Lone Ranger, an evolutionary biologist, wrote you a detailed, illustrated 33-page essay that discussed the eyes down the molecular level. You admitted that your refused to read it.
I listened to The Lone Ranger, but even down to the molecular level, there was nothing that showed the direction in which we see.
 
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Here's your thinking: How dare he say that science wasn't right about something that has been accepted as fact for so long. You need more than that to prove him wrong.

Another ad hom to report when I find the time.
You keep saying that Lessans was not a scientist. I believe this very well may have to do with your thought process because it would bring into question many things that are dependent on delayed time.

ad hom, again.
I listened to The Lone Ranger, but even down to the molecular level, there was nothing that showed the direction in which we see.

You admitted you did not read the essay he wrote, just for you.
 
There is a way to eliminate war and crime once the truth of determinism is confirmed by science.
Then we are shit out of luck, because confirming things is not one of the capabilities of the scientific method.
There are ways to confirm things or scientists wouldn't be trying to do just that.
Why do you think that "scientists" are trying to do that? Have you asked them?
Stop playing these stupid games, Pood.
Science is a technique for ruling ideas out. It doesn't confirm anything, except "Yes, I really was wrong".
It does both. By ruling something out, it confirms the other.

No, it does not. There could be potentially an infinite number of theories that explain a set of data. It’s called theory underdetermination. Science does not confirm stuff.
And every theory is just as valid as every other one because science doesn't confirm stuff. Righto. :giggle:
You wouldn't be so furious about his claim that the eyes are not a sense organ. It's an established fact, according to science.

The bold is ad hominem.
Whateva! 😏
It’s true they could get things wrong
Everyone always gets things wrong. "Scientists" are not special people who never make errors (and nor are autodidactic authors of bizarre and easily disproven claims about vision).
You aren't trying to understand his reasons at all. Can you explain his reasoning as to why man's will is not free? I don't think you read what I posted. I'm curious. Did you? And did you see if your dogs are to recognize you on a computer screen with no movement or sound? Don't evade my question.

LOL, nobody is evading anything, except you.
Then why haven't I gotten a response? The waves of light coming from the computer should allow dogs to recognize their human partners by showing excitement. It's a much better test than levers. :rofl:
such as the belief the eyes work like the other four senses
Literally nobody believes this. Not only is the idea that the senses number 5 a gross error; But none of the senses work like the others - or they would be the same sense.
The fact that nobody believes the eyes aren't a sense organ is not proof that the eyes ARE a sense organ. The fact that most people don't believe in determinism is not proof that man does not have free will. I am not using an appeal to popularity.

It is not an appeal to popularity. It’s an appeal to SCIENCE.
And science doesn't confirm stuff, right?
The sense of touch works the same way in the fingers as in the toes, so we don't say we have a sense of "finger touch", and another of "toe touch"; We just say we sense "touch".
By the same token, we just say, "I see this," but the word sense has a specific meaning. He explained that putting the eyes in the same category as hearing or touch would be analogous to putting a potato in the same category as a fruit.

He “explained” nothing of the kind; he simply baselessly asserted it.
Why do we classify anything if not to try to understand the mechanism as to how something works?

Still waiting for you to supply the “mechanism” by which his daft claim works.,
I'm getting really tired of people telling me his claims are daft when they have no understanding of why he came to these conclusions. I am going to paste the excerpts that must be read if there is a chance in hell for anybody to get his reasoning, at the very least. Would you tell Nietzsche he has nothing of any value to say without reading his books? This is batshit crazy!
, but there are many things they’ve gotten right.
No, just things they haven't found the wrong parts of, yet. Much of it might be correct, but it will never be confirmed.
You are right to a degree because there is a lot hypothesizing in science. Much is thrown out, but much is kept because it works and has practical application.
Nust rendered ever more plausible by our failure to prove it to be false.
It may be true that something appears more plausible by the failure to prove it to be false, but in this case, the claim that the eyes are a sense organ may not to be as plausible as once thought because it IS being proven false.

Oh? Proven by whom? Certainly not by your writer.
Yes. His three discoveries are sound.
Anything is possible, when you don't understand how anything works.
I never said anything is possible.
I never said you did.
That's what I thought you implied. I'm not a gullible individual. I'm a skeptic by nature.

Uh-huh.
:sadyes:
We know that’s not true but that certainly doesn’t mean that there aren’t things that ARE possible.
And that certainly doesn't mean that a particular thing you want to be possible, actually is.
It isn't that I WANT a particular thing to be possible that makes it true. If that were the case, I would be spreading woo woo. 🙀

Which in fact is what you are doing.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
 
The knowledge revealed thus far, although also hidden behind the door marked ‘Man Does Not Have Five Senses’ is not what I referred to as being of significance. Frankly, it makes no difference to me that the eyes are not a sense organ, that our scientists got confused because of it, and that a dog cannot identify his master from a picture. What does mean a great deal to me when the purpose of this book is to remove all evil from our lives (which word is symbolic of any kind of hurt that exists in human relations) is to demonstrate how certain words have absolutely no foundation in reality yet they have caused the worst suffering and unhappiness imaginable. Let me explain.

One of the greatest forms of injustice still exists because we have never understood our true relationship with the external world, which is related to what we think we see with our eyes. What is this injustice? It is to be judged an inferior production of the human race because of physiognomic differences, and this judgment takes place the moment we call one person beautiful and another one ugly, handsome and homely, good looking and bad looking.

“But I have been taught that sticks and stones will break my bones, but names or words will never hurt me. Isn’t that a true statement?”

Actually, I’m not referring to those names. To be called the N word, kike, dirty Jew, wop, pig, or any name used in an effort to make a person feel inferior is actually not a hurt if this does not lower ourselves in our own eyes because we allow for the source. But when we believe we are inferior productions because of words that have told us so, the expression, ‘Sticks and stones will break my bones…’ is completely erroneous since we have been unconsciously hurt. This unconsciousness has its source in the failure to understand how the eyes function, which is revealed by the fact that they are included as one of the five senses. When someone is judged an inferior production of the human race by others, as well as himself, all because of words that have no relation to reality, although he sees this inferiority as if it is a definite part of the real world, then he is seriously hurt, and God is going to put a permanent end to the use of these words. What makes someone remark, “It’s a darn shame she got killed, she was such a pretty girl,” indicating that the tragedy was greater because of this prettiness. What makes parents give their children cosmetic surgery if not to increase their physiognomic value? As a consequence of the belief that one person is more beautiful or handsome than another, which places a greater value on certain features, many people will go to great lengths to correct their ‘imperfections’ by getting breast implants and eyelid surgery, while others will have nose operations and squeeze their teeth together. These operations are not without risk, yet many people are willing to have these cosmetic procedures because they believe it will improve the quality of their lives, and the doctor who must earn a living justifies his professional advice on the undeniable grounds that they will definitely be more attractive when their teeth are together and their nose straightened. After all, what makes someone good looking, cute, adorable, lovely, gorgeous, beautiful, or handsome if not for the belief that certain features or combination of features contain this value called ‘beauty?’ And isn’t it also true that we see these differences with our very eyes? “We do,” you might reply, “but even if we differ as to who is the most beautiful, the real truth is that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.” This comment does not reveal the truth at all; instead, it reveals our confusion still more since this expression does not negate the existence of ugliness but only observes a difference of opinion regarding the type features that constitute what is beautiful and ugly. To prove what I mean, could you possibly call Miss America ugly, or the Wicked Witch beautiful? You might disagree with someone as to which girl in a beauty contest should be judged the winner, but none would be considered ugly. I then asked my friend this question to clarify my point.

“Who do you think is more beautiful, Elizabeth Taylor or your girlfriend?”

“How is it possible to answer your question when beauty is in the eyes of the beholder? This is just a matter of opinion, not a fact, and you said these words were symbolic of reality or gave the appearance of being so.”

Let me rephrase the question, “In your eyes, do you consider your girlfriend as beautiful as Elizabeth Taylor?”

“No I don’t.”

“In your eyes, is this an opinion that you are less good looking than Paul Newman, or a fact?”

“He is an extremely handsome man, and I do consider him better looking than myself.”

“Who do you consider better looking, Paul Newman or Robert Redford?”

“I say the latter.”

“Not in my book,” commented my friend. “Newman has it all over him.”

“Are you able to see what the expression, ‘beauty is in the eyes of the beholder’ refers to? There is a difference of opinion as to who is better looking in your eyes, but once you admit to yourself that a certain person is more handsome or beautiful than another, then as far as you’re concerned, this is not an opinion but a fact. Take a look at this picture. It is of a girl who has an aquiline nose, buck teeth, a receding hair line, heavy bowlegs, sagging breasts, a projected rear end, a harelip, and she lisps and stutters. Now compare her with Elizabeth Taylor and tell me the truth. In your eyes, which one is more beautiful?”

“Are you trying to be funny? Elizabeth Taylor naturally, but this is a fact, she is more beautiful. These differences exist and are a definite part of the real world because I see them with my very eyes.”

“Differences exist, this is true, and you do see them with your very eyes, but the words we have been looking through are not, and because these symbols are a terrible hurt, they must come to an end. You will soon have verified that when we use the expression, ‘beauty is in the eyes of the beholder,’ what we are saying in reality is that beauty is only a word existing in the brain of the beholder. To be classified as homely is the greatest injustice, yet every time we use the whole range of words expressing good looks, we do that very thing. You will soon understand how these words developed and how they fooled even the most analytic minds into believing they were true descriptions of reality. The truth is that nobody is beautiful or ugly, just different. However, the first thing I must do is demonstrate exactly why they are words only, not reality, and why they must become obsolete; otherwise, you will classify this kind of evil as one of those unfortunate things like being born without legs, arms, or eyes.”

“I agree with you so far, but let’s assume for a moment that you actually convince us that these words are not symbolic of reality. Why should we or others stop using them if there is greater satisfaction in continuing with them? Just because you teach us that using certain words, whatever they are, is wrong because they are a hurt won’t necessarily stop their use.”

“No, it won’t, but the basic principle will. God is giving us no choice in this matter, as you will soon begin to understand. Let us continue our discussion to observe how our brain operates.”

At a very early age our brain not only records sound, taste, touch, and smell but photographs the objects involved, which develops a negative of the relation, whereas a dog is incapable of this. When he sees the features of his master without any accompanying sound or smell, he cannot identify them because no photograph was taken. A dog identifies through his sense of sound and smell and what he sees in relation to these sense experiences, just as we identify most of the differences that exist through words and names. If the negative plate on which the relation is formed is temporarily disconnected — in man’s case the words and names and in a dog’s case the sounds and smells — both would have a case of amnesia. This gives conclusive evidence as to why an animal cannot identify too well with his eyes. As we have seen, if a vicious dog accustomed to attacking any person who should open the fence at night were to have two senses, hearing and smell, temporarily disconnected, and assuming that no relation was developed as to the way in which an individual walked, he would actually have amnesia, and even though he saw with his eyes his master come through the gate, he would have no way of recognizing him and would attack. But a baby, having already developed negatives of relations that act as a slide in a movie projector, can recognize at a very early age. The brain is a very complex piece of machinery that not only acts as a tape recorder through our ears and the other three senses and a camera through our eyes, but also, and this was never understood, as a movie projector. As sense experiences become related or recorded, they are projected, through the eyes, upon the screen of the objects held in relation and photographed by the brain. Consequently, since the eyes are the binoculars of the brain, all words that are placed in front of this telescope, words containing every conceivable kind of relation, are projected as slides onto the screen of the outside world, and if these words do not accurately symbolize, as with five senses, man will actually think he sees what has absolutely no existence; and if words correctly describe, then he will be made conscious of actual differences and relations that exist externally but have no meaning for those who do not know the words. To understand this better, let us observe my granddaughter learning words.

It is obvious that this baby looks out through her eyes and sees various animals and people in motion, but she is not conscious of differences. She may be drawn to play with one animal in preference to another, or she may prefer to play with one toy over another, but as far as she is concerned, all she sees are a bunch of objects. By constantly hearing certain sounds in relation to specific objects, she soon knows that apple, orange, doll, dress, sun, moon, dog, cat, couch, chair, etc. mean the very things she sees with her eyes. These bits of substance are a definite part of the real world, and she knows this even before learning the words. She has experienced most of these with her four senses, and even though this cannot be done where the sun and moon are concerned, she still sees that something is there. Remember, however, that nothing from the external world strikes her optic nerve to allow her to see these various objects. She simply sees these things because she looks at them. A dog also sees these objects because he looks at them. He tastes, smells, and hears various things, but since nothing strikes his optic nerve, he must confirm what he is doubtful of with his sense of smell.

“But doesn’t the brain take a picture through the eyes of the differences that exist? I can see them through my eyes, why can’t a dog see them through his?”

Because he knows nothing of differences. He enjoys certain objects better than others. He likes his master and dislikes strangers. He likes to eat certain things, and he is drawn to certain females, but there is no way his brain can perceive differences because this involves words. Let us continue.
 
As my granddaughter’s eyes are focused on one of our canine friends, I shall repeat the word ‘dog’ rapidly in her ear. When she turns away, I stop. This will be continued until she looks for him when hearing the word, which indicates that a relation between this particular sound and object has been established and a photograph taken. Soon this relation is formed which makes her conscious of a particular difference that exists in the external world. As she learns more and more words such as cat, horse, bird, sun, moon, etc., she becomes conscious of these differences, which no one can deny because they are seen through words or slides that circumscribe accurately these various bits of substance. This is exactly how we learn words, only I am speeding up the process. Before long she learns house, tree, car, chair, door, kitchen, television, airplane, moon, stars, nose, teeth, eyes, hair, girl, boy, and so on. She soon learns that these bits of substance are different, and that is why they have different names. Until she learns the word cat she could very easily point to a dog when hearing that word because a negative of the difference has not yet been developed, just as a fox cannot be differentiated from a dog until a photograph of the difference has been developed. She also learns the names of individuals: Mommy, Daddy, Linda, Janis, Marc, David, Elan, Justin, Shoshana, Adam, Jennifer, Meredith, etc. If a picture of her mother flashed on a screen, she would automatically say mommy. She is able to identify her mother because the word is a picture that was taken when the relation was formed and exists in her mind, through which she looks at the differences that exist in substance. My granddaughter can identify her mother from hundreds and hundreds of photographs because the difference is a negative that not only reveals who her mother is, but who she is not. In other words, as she learns these names and words, her brain takes a picture of the objects symbolized, and when she sees these differences again, she projects the word or name, but the brain will not take any picture until a relation is formed. Consequently, these differences that exist in the external world which are not identifiable through taste, touch, smell, or sounds are identifiable only because they are related to words, names, or slides that we project for recognition. If we lose certain names or words, we will have amnesia because, when we see these ordinarily familiar differences, we are unable to project the words or names necessary for recognition.

By the same reasoning, the word Chinese develops not only a negative of differences but of similarities; consequently, when someone is not acquainted with the differences that exist among this race, he only sees that they resemble each other. But if we lived among this group and separated them by their individual names, we would soon see their differences and not their similarities. Seeing similarities is what takes place when someone does not learn colors properly. He may be called colorblind when in reality he is word blind. Supposing we were to teach a child that blue is green, and green is blue and then place him in surroundings where his identification of colors would be tested. Can you imagine how quickly he would be called colorblind? This child would argue that the green is blue, and the blue is green, while the other children, brought up differently, would reverse the argument. If someone gets confused between certain shades of blue and green, it is only because the relation between colors was never accurately photographed. In many cases, colors are learned in a haphazard manner, and if a blue negative was developed when looking at a subtle shade of green, he would see blue just as you would see something blue through blue glasses even though the object was green. This is equivalent to getting confused between certain types of leaves and trees only because these differences were not accurately photographed in relation to the word. For example, if a particular leaf is given a specific name and another leaf resembling this leaf to a degree but still slightly different is given a different name, then when the relation is accurately photographed, the person learning the words will never mistake one for the other. Once children are made to understand that they are referring to the same bit of substance, regardless of the different names used to identify it, then there can be no argument between them. Of course, if a child can’t see a difference before learning the words, then he is genuinely color blind. Here is another example.

If you were taught one word, orange, which included within that symbol a grapefruit and tangerine, you would hand me any one of the three if I asked for an orange, but when you learn the other two words, which photograph the difference, then you could not hand me a tangerine or grapefruit if I asked for an orange. The reason we have a word for the sun and a word for the moon is because these two bodies are different, and the reason we have a planet named Earth, one named Saturn, Venus, etc. is only because these are not one and the same planet, and we have separated them by calling them different names. However, the reason we do not call the moon a planet is because we learned it does not function like one, therefore it does not fall in the same category. Once it is understood as an undeniable law that nothing impinges on the optic nerve, even though the pupils dilate and contract according to the intensity of light, it becomes possible to separate what exists in the external world from that which is only a negative or word in our head. In the course of our children’s development, they learn other kinds of words that form inaccurate relations, not only because a judgment of personal value is given external reality by the symbol itself but also because the logic of unconscious syllogistic reasoning confirms the apparent validity of inaccurate observations. Let me show you how this was accomplished.

From the time we were small children, our relatives, parents, friends, and acquaintances have expressed their personal likes and dislikes regarding people’s physiognomies. The words beautiful, pretty, cute, adorable, handsome, etc., heard over and over again with an enhancing inflection as to someone’s physical appearance took a picture of the similarities between this type of physiognomy and developed negatives which also contained the degree of feeling experienced. Similarly, an entire range of words heard repeatedly with a detracting inflection as to someone’s physical characteristics took a picture of the similarities between this type of physiognomy and developed negatives containing the degree of feeling experienced below this line of demarcation. As time went on, a standard of beauty was established. Not knowing what the brain was able to do, we were convinced that one group of similarities contained a lesser value than the opposite similarities. We were unaware that the brain had reversed the process by which these negatives were developed and then projected onto the screen of undeniable differences a value that existed only in our head. It would not be long before we would be conditioned to desire associating with the one type while avoiding the other, and as we would get older, you would not be able to convince us that an ugly or beautiful person did not exist because we had witnessed these differences with our very eyes. In other words, when a word contains a judgment of value, a standard of perfection, then we are able to project this value directly onto substance, and then because we see this with our very eyes, it was a simple thing to convince ourselves that beauty was a definite part of the real world. The confusion between what is real and what is not comes from the fact that these words not only describe real differences that exist in the world, but they also create external values when there are no such things. I will give you an example of this by using a movie projector.

Here is a smooth white wall in a dark room with nothing on it. I am dropping a negative plate or slide into the projector, flipping the switch, and just take a look — there is a picture of a girl on the wall. But go up and touch her. All you feel is the wall itself because the girl is not there. We have been doing the same thing with our brain regarding values. The differences in substance were not only divided up by the use of words like man, woman, child, etc., but became a screen upon which we were able to project this value. Drop a negative plate or word slide in your brain projector and flip the switch. Well, just take a look — there is now a beautiful girl, a homely man, an ugly duckling! Turn off the switch (remove the negative plate or word slide), and all you see are the differences in substance because the projected values have been removed. Since we were taught that the eyes receive and transmit sense experience on the waves of light, it was impossible to deny that this beautiful girl actually existed, and when we changed the standard hidden in the word, all we did was change the screen. By saying that this person may not be beautiful physically but has a beautiful soul, we were allowed to see ugly souls as if they, too, existed externally. Scientists, believing that the eyes were a sense organ, unconsciously confirmed what man saw with them because they were unaware that it was possible to project a fallacious relation realistically. Consequently, everything in the external world will be distorted if the words through which man looks at what he calls reality are inaccurate symbols or if the relation that is photographed becomes, as in the five senses, an inaccurate negative that is then projected realistically upon undeniable substance. The word beautiful has absolutely no external reality and yet because it is learned in association with a particular physiognomy, a beautiful girl is created when no such person exists. Obviously, there is a difference between the shape and features of individuals, but to label one beautiful and another ugly only reveals that you are conscious of a fallacious difference that is projected through your eyes upon substance that cannot be denied — which makes the projection appear real. By having the words beautiful, ugly, gorgeous, etc. as slides in a movie projector through which the brain will look at the external world, a fallacious value is placed upon certain specific differences only because of the words, which are then confirmed as a part of the real world since man will swear that he sees beautiful women with his eyes. But in actual reality, all he sees are different shapes and different features. This beautiful girl is not striking his optic nerve which then allows him to see her beauty, but instead he projects the word onto these differences and then photographs a fallacious relation. The brain records all relations, whether true or false, and since it was considered an indisputable fact that man had five senses which were connected in some way with the external world, and since four of these were accurately described as sense organs, that is, they receive and transmit external stimuli, it was very easy for Aristotle to get confused and put a closure on further investigation by including the eyes in the definition, which he did only because he never understood their true function.
 
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The belief in the eyes being a sense organ has allowed innumerable words to come into existence, which has caused people to be judged as an inferior production of the human race. Can you imagine what would happen if we lived in a world where all such words were removed, where nobody, including ourselves, would be judged in terms of ugliness, homeliness, prettiness, and so forth? Remember, however, that when these negatives of external value are removed, this doesn’t stop us from seeing differences that appeal to us more, but instead of saying, “She is the most beautiful girl I have ever seen,” which places other girls in a stratified layer of lesser value, we are compelled to say, “She appeals to me more than any girl I have ever seen,” which makes it obvious that the value we see exists only for us. The first expression requires that ugly girls exist because certain type features are considered superior, while the second expression only observes that other girls appeal to us less, which makes everybody equal in value except to particular individuals. By removing all the synonyms that describe people as good looking, nobody is hurt, but by removing all the antonyms that have been judging half the human race as bad looking, this entire group is brought up to a level of complete equality and respect. However, it is mathematically impossible to expect you to give up that which is also a source of satisfaction, although the change does not depend on those who are happy in their pride and self-importance, which includes everyone to a degree, but on those who are seriously hurt and who are shown how they, too, can become happy. And are we given a choice when to continue using these words after we have learned the truth only reveals our ignorance, for which we will never be blamed? How is it possible to criticize people for believing the earth is flat, man’s will is free, and his eyes a sense organ when we know for an absolute fact that they have never learned the truth?

It is true, however, that we are so conditioned by these words that even their removal will not make us like someone more who appeals to us less. But when children are brought up without ever hearing these words, there is no telling to whom they might be attracted without being adversely judged. For example, if two boys decide to approach two girls having never been conditioned with words like beautiful and ugly, they might be attracted, without envy, each to the other, but when their heads are filled with fallacious standards of value that have been concealed in words, it is obvious that they will prefer the one that conforms more closely to this standard of perfection or beauty because this meets with greater approval and less criticism. This approval by others is in no way an external value; in other words, your approval of what I do has a value for me, but unless I want this, it has no value for me at all. If I don’t like the criticism, I will try to conform to a standard that avoids what I don’t like, but this is a relation between myself and what exists outside of me.

“Well, is it a fallacious value when certain differences are admired and respected more by the majority of the world? For example, is it a fallacious value when — pardon the fallacious expression — a beautiful girl attracts a millionaire who desires to marry her because of her beauty? I’d say these values are pretty real regardless of whether we call these differences by one name or another, right? If one thousand males have to choose between two females and the entire thousand pick one in preference to the other, do you mean to say that the differences that attracted them are not a part of the external world?”

“Of course these differences are a part of the external world, just as the difference between the moon and the sun is a part of the external world, and just as the difference between a cat and a rat is externally real, but this has nothing to do with value. In other words, if you choose a cat as a pet because you like felines, this has personal value for you. There are some people who like rodents and would pick the rat as their choice, which has personal value for them. In reality, there is no such thing as an external value. If you are drawn to hire an individual because he meets certain requirements or if he judges for himself that he qualifies (as will happen in the new world), this only means that he is more valuable to you, the employer; and if one thousand people think the same way this doesn’t mean that the differences they prefer have external value although the differences in substance are externally real. Value is nothing other than a word to describe what you personally want or like.”

“Do you mean that one man’s meat is another man’s poison... and doesn’t this go back to the idea that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder? I’m still confused as to why this expression isn’t correct when it is expressing someone’s personal taste.”

“There is quite a difference between both expressions because meat and poison are external realities, but, as we have learned, beauty has no external reality whatsoever. I may not like certain types of meat, but I don’t create the meat with a word to symbolize its existence, whereas the word beauty does this by placing a greater value on certain specific differences (that undeniably exist and are a part of the external world), which value only has existence for the internal world, that is, for what I personally like or desire. For example, if I call one shaped nose aquiline and another straight, then I am accurately symbolizing an external difference, but if I say a straight nose is beautiful and an aquiline nose is ugly, then I am projecting through my eyes an internal value that has no external existence onto a screen of differences that are externally undeniable. Consequently, when any words are used that contain an internal value, something that you recognize as having more value for you, which is then projected as a part of the external world, it is then made to appear that this value exists outside of you because you see it with your very eyes. As a result of words, man was actually able to do the impossible. He was able to stratify differences in people into layers of value when it is mathematically impossible for anything of value to exist in the external world. Can you imagine what would happen if we lived in an atmosphere where there were no values that were imposed as standards by the unconscious or conscious judgment of others?”

Supposing two girls living on earth, presently called ugly, were placed on a planet where no such word exists, there would be absolutely nothing to prevent them from living a normal life because the males there would never judge them in terms of ugliness, for no such thing exists except as a projection of our realistic imagination. What one man may like when no words such as beautiful and ugly are present to condition him — and there is no criticism for the choice that appeals to him most — might be a girl that has a stocky build, small breasts, and protruding ears. Here on earth, these girls are handicapped from the day of their birth because their particular features have been assigned more or less value as a result of these differences. They are constantly judged, not in any personal or direct manner, but in a way that cannot easily be corrected because they are seen through this kaleidoscope of negatives that transforms them realistically into what they are not. Every other word we use stratifies external differences, which cannot be denied, into fallacious standards and values that appear realistic only because they are confirmed with our eyes (with the direct perception of our sense of sight) and our unconscious syllogistic reasoning, which employ words as realities. The unhappiness resulting from these words is both manifold and manifest in the very fact that people develop a complex of inferiority and are forced to compensate by becoming the life of the party or by making themselves visible in other ways. Not realizing that it was the word itself that was the source of the problem, those that were considered ugly were compelled to go through life feeling less than others in physiognomic value. How many times have you heard someone intending to be nice but with a tone of pity remark, “She isn’t pretty, but she has a nice personality,” which becomes the consolation prize. This girl has to remove herself from the competition and get approval some other way in order to make up for this imaginary lack. Although you look back with smiling incredulity to the days of yore and wonder about the many ignorant beliefs that our ancestors used to imagine were true, is it possible for your professors to believe that they are not any more educated or intelligent than anybody else? As a further consequence of these fallacious differences that do not exist in reality but are only a projection of deceptive relations, they have been led to believe that they are more important than someone else, more valuable in the scheme of things, and from this source a host of evils stem. Have they any conception that these are only words? In reality, no one is more intelligent or educated than anyone else, as you will soon understand. There are many more words that will go by the wayside, such as brilliant, genius, a brain, etc., because they do not accurately describe reality for what it is (and will be discussed in the chapter on education). It is absolutely true that just as long as others judge you as more beautiful or valuable when your physiognomy conforms to an accepted standard, or more educated or valuable when you learn or do certain things, there is ample justification to change yourself to suit them, which is the reason many people have nose operations, squeeze their teeth together, develop a huge vocabulary, walk, talk, and act in definite ways. The individuals who are considered educated, intelligent, or beautiful may not like to be told that they are none of these things, but there is a big difference between the people considered to possess these values and the ones who do not. It is difficult to contemplate the extent to which we have all been influenced by words that judge half of the human race as inferior, and the consequent pain this has caused.

At long last we will be able to know ourselves for who we really are. If any reader starts out with a feeling of superiority or inferiority, I will guarantee that when he understands all the principles — and he will — he will end up feeling exactly equal in value with every person alive…no better or worse. We must remember that mankind has been developing at a mathematical rate and had to go through the necessary stages of development in order to reach this stage of maturity. Man has been consciously unconscious of the reason for doing things because of words, nothing else. Psychologists, theologians, philosophers, as well as all others who read books but do not know the difference between mathematical and logical relations, think that by learning a lot of words in various combinations, they have been studying reality. But when we realize that everything had to develop exactly the way it did, we are comforted in the knowledge that just as these words came into existence for various reasons, they will soon depart. I don’t believe it is possible for me to clarify this more than it is already in the text itself. However, I suggest this chapter be read and listened to several times just in case you haven’t completely understood it. As a result of this knowledge, I have completely stopped using these words. It may be difficult for you to stop because they are used to compliment, flatter, and raise ourselves by downing others. When you refer to someone as bad-looking, it is equivalent to saying, “I am better looking,” and most people use everything they can to elevate their opinion of themselves in this cruel world of words. However, you will soon see that all these words must come to an end out of absolute necessity. Let us now observe what must take place as we extend the knowledge of what it means that man’s will is not free and his eyes not a sense organ into the world of love.
 
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There is a way to eliminate war and crime once the truth of determinism is confirmed by science.
Then we are shit out of luck, because confirming things is not one of the capabilities of the scientific method.
There are ways to confirm things or scientists wouldn't be trying to do just that.
Why do you think that "scientists" are trying to do that? Have you asked them?
Stop playing these stupid games, Pood.

You seem to have screwed up your quote tags again. Big surprise. I also believe this runs afoul of the rule against baiting and goading.
Science is a technique for ruling ideas out. It doesn't confirm anything, except "Yes, I really was wrong".
It does both. By ruling something out, it confirms the other.

No, it does not. There could be potentially an infinite number of theories that explain a set of data. It’s called theory underdetermination. Science does not confirm stuff.
And every theory is just as valid as every other one because science doesn't confirm stuff. Righto. :giggle:
No, it’s yet another thing you don;’t understand and never will understand, so I am not going to waste my breath trying to explain theory underdetermination to you.
You wouldn't be so furious about his claim that the eyes are not a sense organ. It's an established fact, according to science.

The bold is ad hominem.
Whateva! 😏
I see, cavalier about a rules violation.
It’s true they could get things wrong
Everyone always gets things wrong. "Scientists" are not special people who never make errors (and nor are autodidactic authors of bizarre and easily disproven claims about vision).
You aren't trying to understand his reasons at all. Can you explain his reasoning as to why man's will is not free? I don't think you read what I posted. I'm curious. Did you? And did you see if your dogs are to recognize you on a computer screen with no movement or sound? Don't evade my question.

LOL, nobody is evading anything, except you.
Then why haven't I gotten a response? The waves of light coming from the computer should allow dogs to recognize their human partners by showing excitement. It's a much better test than levers. :rofl:

We’ve already shown you scientific studies that dogs recognize their humans in photographs and on video, and dogs do recognize their masters on computer screens, but have a hard time with small screens. You can do all this research for yourself. I’m not spoonfeeding you.
such as the belief the eyes work like the other four senses
Literally nobody believes this. Not only is the idea that the senses number 5 a gross error; But none of the senses work like the others - or they would be the same sense.
The fact that nobody believes the eyes aren't a sense organ is not proof that the eyes ARE a sense organ. The fact that most people don't believe in determinism is not proof that man does not have free will. I am not using an appeal to popularity.

It is not an appeal to popularity. It’s an appeal to SCIENCE.
And science doesn't confirm stuff, right?

It disconfirms stuff, but even that is tentative, as new evidence emerges. Some theories are so well-supported that they are considered true beyond any reasonable doubt, like our theories about light and sight, for example. But no theory is true beyond any doubt whatsoever. It is the same standard applied in a court of law.
The sense of touch works the same way in the fingers as in the toes, so we don't say we have a sense of "finger touch", and another of "toe touch"; We just say we sense "touch".
By the same token, we just say, "I see this," but the word sense has a specific meaning. He explained that putting the eyes in the same category as hearing or touch would be analogous to putting a potato in the same category as a fruit.

He “explained” nothing of the kind; he simply baselessly asserted it.
Why do we classify anything if not to try to understand the mechanism as to how something works?

Still waiting for you to supply the “mechanism” by which his daft claim works.,
I'm getting really tired of people telling me his claims are daft when they have no understanding of why he came to these conclusions. I am going to paste the excerpts that must be read if there is a chance in hell for anybody to get his reasoning, at the very least. Would you tell Nietzsche he has nothing of any value to say without reading his books? This is batshit crazy!

I have read the book, and it’s batshit crazy. He does not supply a mechanism, anywhere, for his claims about light and sight, he simply asserts they are true.
, but there are many things they’ve gotten right.
No, just things they haven't found the wrong parts of, yet. Much of it might be correct, but it will never be confirmed.
You are right to a degree because there is a lot hypothesizing in science. Much is thrown out, but much is kept because it works and has practical application.
Nust rendered ever more plausible by our failure to prove it to be false.
It may be true that something appears more plausible by the failure to prove it to be false, but in this case, the claim that the eyes are a sense organ may not to be as plausible as once thought because it IS being proven false.

Oh? Proven by whom? Certainly not by your writer.
Yes. His three discoveries are sound.

They are all wrong.
Anything is possible, when you don't understand how anything works.
I never said anything is possible.
I never said you did.
That's what I thought you implied. I'm not a gullible individual. I'm a skeptic by nature.

Uh-huh.
:sadyes:
We know that’s not true but that certainly doesn’t mean that there aren’t things that ARE possible.
And that certainly doesn't mean that a particular thing you want to be possible, actually is.
It isn't that I WANT a particular thing to be possible that makes it true. If that were the case, I would be spreading woo woo. 🙀

Which in fact is what you are doing.
Saying it doesn't make it so.

And your writer or you saying something is so doesn’t make it so, either. And in fact it isn’t so.
 
There is a way to eliminate war and crime once the truth of determinism is confirmed by science.
Then we are shit out of luck, because confirming things is not one of the capabilities of the scientific method.
There are ways to confirm things or scientists wouldn't be trying to do just that.
Why do you think that "scientists" are trying to do that? Have you asked them?
Stop playing these stupid games, Pood.

You seem to have screwed up your quote tags again. Big surprise. I also believe this runs afoul of the rule against baiting and goading.
Science is a technique for ruling ideas out. It doesn't confirm anything, except "Yes, I really was wrong".
It does both. By ruling something out, it confirms the other.

No, it does not. There could be potentially an infinite number of theories that explain a set of data. It’s called theory underdetermination. Science does not confirm stuff.
And every theory is just as valid as every other one because science doesn't confirm stuff. Righto. :giggle:
No, it’s yet another thing you don;’t understand and never will understand, so I am not going to waste my breath trying to explain theory underdetermination to you.

I don't need or want your help, so back off. Theory underdetermination. :sadyes:
You wouldn't be so furious about his claim that the eyes are not a sense organ. It's an established fact, according to science.

The bold is ad hominem.
Whateva! 😏
I see, cavalier about a rules violation.
I don't care what you say. You are so furious, you can't think straight.
It’s true they could get things wrong
Everyone always gets things wrong. "Scientists" are not special people who never make errors (and nor are autodidactic authors of bizarre and easily disproven claims about vision).
You aren't trying to understand his reasons at all. Can you explain his reasoning as to why man's will is not free? I don't think you read what I posted. I'm curious. Did you? And did you see if your dogs are to recognize you on a computer screen with no movement or sound? Don't evade my question.

LOL, nobody is evading anything, except you.
Then why haven't I gotten a response? The waves of light coming from the computer should allow dogs to recognize their human partners by showing excitement. It's a much better test than levers. :rofl:

We’ve already shown you scientific studies that dogs recognize their humans in photographs and on video, and dogs do recognize their masters on computer screens, but have a hard time with small screens. You can do all this research for yourself. I’m not spoonfeeding you.
That's an outright lie. No one showed me that dogs can recognize their masters on a computer without sound or movement. You could have a movie screen, and they wouldn't recognize their masters without other cues. You're in denial.
such as the belief the eyes work like the other four senses
Literally nobody believes this. Not only is the idea that the senses number 5 a gross error; But none of the senses work like the others - or they would be the same sense.
The fact that nobody believes the eyes aren't a sense organ is not proof that the eyes ARE a sense organ. The fact that most people don't believe in determinism is not proof that man does not have free will. I am not using an appeal to popularity.

It is not an appeal to popularity. It’s an appeal to SCIENCE.
And science doesn't confirm stuff, right?

It disconfirms stuff, but even that is tentative, as new evidence emerges. Some theories are so well-supported that they are considered true beyond any reasonable doubt, like our theories about light and sight, for example. But no theory is true beyond any doubt whatsoever. It is the same standard applied in a court of law.
So their theory about light and sight is not beyond any doubt whatsoever, even if it appears well-supported.
The sense of touch works the same way in the fingers as in the toes, so we don't say we have a sense of "finger touch", and another of "toe touch"; We just say we sense "touch".
By the same token, we just say, "I see this," but the word sense has a specific meaning. He explained that putting the eyes in the same category as hearing or touch would be analogous to putting a potato in the same category as a fruit.

He “explained” nothing of the kind; he simply baselessly asserted it.
People can read for themselves and can come to their own conclusions. He was either right or he wasn't. It can't be both, just like we cannot have free will to do otherwise and no free will to do otherwise. If you don't see the contradiction, I'm sorry.
Why do we classify anything if not to try to understand the mechanism as to how something works?

Still waiting for you to supply the “mechanism” by which his daft claim works.,
I'm getting really tired of people telling me his claims are daft when they have no understanding of why he came to these conclusions. I am going to paste the excerpts that must be read if there is a chance in hell for anybody to get his reasoning, at the very least. Would you tell Nietzsche he has nothing of any value to say without reading his books? This is batshit crazy!

I have read the book, and it’s batshit crazy. He does not supply a mechanism, anywhere, for his claims about light and sight, he simply asserts they are true.
You have not studied the book the way it was meant to be studied. You made fun of this book for years (pulling everything out of context) and it's very difficult admitting that you were wrong all along.
, but there are many things they’ve gotten right.
No, just things they haven't found the wrong parts of, yet. Much of it might be correct, but it will never be confirmed.
You are right to a degree because there is a lot hypothesizing in science. Much is thrown out, but much is kept because it works and has practical application.
Nust rendered ever more plausible by our failure to prove it to be false.
It may be true that something appears more plausible by the failure to prove it to be false, but in this case, the claim that the eyes are a sense organ may not to be as plausible as once thought because it IS being proven false.

Oh? Proven by whom? Certainly not by your writer.
Yes. His three discoveries are sound.

They are all wrong.
Says Pood. Man's will is definitely not free and it's becoming accepted as neuroscientists learn more about the brain.
Anything is possible, when you don't understand how anything works.
I never said anything is possible.
I never said you did.
That's what I thought you implied. I'm not a gullible individual. I'm a skeptic by nature.

Uh-huh.
:sadyes:
We know that’s not true but that certainly doesn’t mean that there aren’t things that ARE possible.
And that certainly doesn't mean that a particular thing you want to be possible, actually is.
It isn't that I WANT a particular thing to be possible that makes it true. If that were the case, I would be spreading woo woo. 🙀

Which in fact is what you are doing.
Saying it doesn't make it so.

And your writer or you saying something is so doesn’t make it so, either. And in fact it isn’t so.
Says Pood. lol
 
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I don't care what you say. You are so furious, you can't think straight.

Ad hom. All will be reported. And, obviously, you DO care what I say.
That's an outright lie.

There is a rule against calling people liars. And it’s not a lie, since we showed you these very studies at FF.
So their theory about light and sight is not beyond any doubt whatsoever, even if it appears well-supported.

No theory is beyond any doubt whatsoever. That doesn’t help you because the standard theory of light and sight is beyond any REASONABLE doubt. And your author gives us no reason to reasonably doubt it.
People can read for themselves and can come to their own conclusions.

They certainly can. And in the 25 years you’ve been peddling this coswallop online, has anyone agreed with it? No, they have not.
He was either right or he wasn't. It can't be both,

Right. He was wrong.
just like we cannot have free will to do otherwise and no free will to do otherwise. If you don't see the contradiction, I'm sorry.

The above makes no sense. Perhaps your own fury is causing you to write this way.
You have not studied the book the way it was meant to be studied

No one has, according to you.
. You made fun of this book for years (pulling everything out of context) and it's very difficult admitting that you were wrong all along.

Ad hom.
Says Pood. Man's will is definitely not free and it's becoming accepted as neuroscientists learn more about the brain.

Neuroscientists are not philosophers and anyway I was specifically referring to his bilge about light and sight.
Says Pood. lol
It isn’t right, peacegirl. Sorry if fact makes you so furious you can’t see straight.
 
Sorry, I'm curious about the light and eyes claim but don't have time to search.... could that be quoted again?

The author claims that if God turned on the sun at noon, people on earth would see it immediately, but not see their neighbors, or anything else, for eight and a half minutes. All we would see is this big bright ball in the sky until the light arrived and we could see everything else. Then, after the photons arrive, they hang around to “smile on” those who wake uo in the morning. so we can see from that point on without any more light arriving from the sun. Also, light is made of molecules, says the author.
 
Sorry, I'm curious about the light and eyes claim but don't have time to search.... could that be quoted again?

The author claims that if God turned on the sun at noon, people on earth would see it immediately, but not see their neighbors, or anything else, for eight and a half minutes. All we would see is this big bright ball in the sky until the light arrived and we could see everything else. Then, after the photons arrive, they hang around to “smile on” those who wake uo in the morning. so we can see from that point on without any more light arriving from the sun. Also, light is made of molecules, says the author.

It can't be that.
 
Sorry, I'm curious about the light and eyes claim but don't have time to search.... could that be quoted again?

The author claims that if God turned on the sun at noon, people on earth would see it immediately, but not see their neighbors, or anything else, for eight and a half minutes. All we would see is this big bright ball in the sky until the light arrived and we could see everything else. Then, after the photons arrive, they hang around to “smile on” those who wake uo in the morning. so we can see from that point on without any more light arriving from the sun. Also, light is made of molecules, says the author.

It can't be that.

If you mean that it can’t be that the author claimed these things, he did. If you mean it can’t be that these claims are true, you are correct.
 
Sorry, I'm curious about the light and eyes claim but don't have time to search.... could that be quoted again?

The author claims that if God turned on the sun at noon, people on earth would see it immediately, but not see their neighbors, or anything else, for eight and a half minutes. All we would see is this big bright ball in the sky until the light arrived and we could see everything else. Then, after the photons arrive, they hang around to “smile on” those who wake uo in the morning. so we can see from that point on without any more light arriving from the sun. Also, light is made of molecules, says the author.

It can't be that.

If you mean that it can’t be that the author claimed these things, he did. If you mean it can’t be that these claims are true, you are correct.

I got the impression that it was more a case of mockery than representation. If that's not the case, the claim doesn't make sense.
 
Sorry, I'm curious about the light and eyes claim but don't have time to search.... could that be quoted again?

The author claims that if God turned on the sun at noon, people on earth would see it immediately, but not see their neighbors, or anything else, for eight and a half minutes. All we would see is this big bright ball in the sky until the light arrived and we could see everything else. Then, after the photons arrive, they hang around to “smile on” those who wake uo in the morning. so we can see from that point on without any more light arriving from the sun. Also, light is made of molecules, says the author.

It can't be that.

If you mean that it can’t be that the author claimed these things, he did. If you mean it can’t be that these claims are true, you are correct.

I got the impression that it was more a case of mockery than representation. If that's not the case, the claim doesn't make sense.

It is indeed the claim, and it indeed does not make sense. Also, the author claims that the eye is not a sense organ.
 
Sorry, I'm curious about the light and eyes claim but don't have time to search.... could that be quoted again?

The author claims that if God turned on the sun at noon, people on earth would see it immediately, but not see their neighbors, or anything else, for eight and a half minutes. All we would see is this big bright ball in the sky until the light arrived and we could see everything else. Then, after the photons arrive, they hang around to “smile on” those who wake uo in the morning. so we can see from that point on without any more light arriving from the sun. Also, light is made of molecules, says the author.

It can't be that.

If you mean that it can’t be that the author claimed these things, he did. If you mean it can’t be that these claims are true, you are correct.

I got the impression that it was more a case of mockery than representation. If that's not the case, the claim doesn't make sense.

It is indeed the claim, and it indeed does not make sense. Also, the author claims that the eye is not a sense organ.

If so, how does it relate to the free will debate in relation to determinism and changing the world for the better?
 
There is a way to eliminate war and crime once the truth of determinism is confirmed by science.
Then we are shit out of luck, because confirming things is not one of the capabilities of the scientific method.
There are ways to confirm things or scientists wouldn't be trying to do just that.
Why do you think that "scientists" are trying to do that? Have you asked them?

Science is a technique for ruling ideas out. It doesn't confirm anything, except "Yes, I really was wrong".
It does both. By ruling something out, it confirms the other.
No, it most certainly does not.

If we hypothesize that something is red, and it is subsequuently proven that it cannot be red, that does not confirm the hypothesis that it is green.

Reality is not a series of dichotomies.
 
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