Riots in the UK

[Gospel]

The problem here is the conflation of the terms "immigrant", "black", and "Muslim", which as far as the average* member of the English Defence League is concerned, are all synonyms.

As a major hip-hop fan, I believe anyone who thinks 'African American' and 'Black British' are synonymous is completely mistaken.

 

[bilby]

The problem here is the conflation of the terms "immigrant", "black", and "Muslim", which as far as the average* member of the English Defence League is concerned, are all synonyms.

As a major hip-hop fan, I believe anyone who thinks 'African American' and 'Black British' are synonymous is completely mistaken.

I am reminded of the American cameraman who was asked to meet British News at Ten anchor, Trevor McDonald, at Templehof Airport during German reunification. He asked "What does this McDonald guy look like, how will I recognise him?", and the producer said, "Well, he's black...", only to be cut off by the rather shocked cameraman, who said "You mean African American".

The producer said "How can he be African American? He's an Englishman from Trinidad!"

Or the line from Lenny Henry, the comedian born in Dudley (in the English West Midlands, near Birmingham), to Jamaican parents. Asked "So, what was life like in Africa?", he replied "I don't know. I haven't lived there for two hundred and fifty years".

The majority of Black English people (but by no means all) are second or third generation descendants of people who came to England in the 1950s from the British owned parts of the Carribean. After WWII, Britain imported huge numbers of people from the Empire (mostly the Carribean and the Indian subcontinent) to help out with the massive labour shortage due to the war.

Most of the people that the EDL and other fascist morons want to "send back where they came from" came from such exotic locations as Brixton, Bradford, Leicester, and Birmingham; They were born in England, and so were many of their parents, and often their grandparents too. They speak English with the local accent, eat fish and chips, and drink warm beer in pubs; The only thing that sets them apart from the "Real Englishman^TM" is that their immigrant ancestors are sufficiently recent as to be easily traced.

"Racial purity" is a doubly insane concept in England, where even its advocates claim "anglo-saxon" heritage, without apparently noticing that the Angles and Saxons were two different peoples, both of them immigrant groups, or that both were integrated out of existence by the Norman French in the medieval period.

There are no "Britons" (not even in Wales or Cornwall, despite the romantic notions of the modern residents of those places); They were integrated out of existence by immigration from Romans (who were themselves people from the entire known world), then Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Normans, Dutchmen, Hugenot Frenchmen, and various waves of Jewish diaspora; then in the twentieth century by Indians, Africans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders and Americans brought in to help fight two world wars; Windrush Caribbeans; Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis (who like the Carribeans were begged to come to England to rebuild the cities bombed by the Luftwaffe); Poles, Czechs, Spaniards, Italians, Frenchmen, Germans, and others who took advantage of EU free movement rules between 1992 and 2020; And an ongoing influx of people from all over the British Commonwealth, who are attracted to the seat of the former Empire by the excessively rosy images taught in their schools (which gloss over the fact that England is cold, damp, and miserable).

Racism is not only idiotic, in England; It's barely even possible - and demands either an intense ignorance of ones own heritage, or a significant dose of self-hatred.

Great Britain has been a trade and resources zone, with massive inflows of migrants, since the paeleolithic, when the island was a centre of flint mining and knapping. The first official restrictions on anybody travelling to the United Kingdom were imposed in 1914, when passports were first introduced for non-diplomats; Before the outbreak of the Great War, the only thing anyone* needed in order to travel to the UK was a boat.










* Unless they were a very strong swimmer (the first recorded cross-channel swim was in 1875); Or they walked across Doggerland before its inundation in circa 6200BCE.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

Of course there is no such law.

The problem is that England has rather a record of appeasement towards misconduct by immigrants.

Appeasement? So the suspect is going to go free? Man, that is nuts. No one wonder white people are rioting, when people who murder children aren't held responsible for their crime and instead get told to be nicer.

Have you not heard the issues with England not paying much attention to pedophiles and forced marriage?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was referring to "immigrant". A lot of the radicals are western born of moderate parents who fled radical Islam.

Rwanda is overwhemingly Christian, so it seems highly doubtful that there is ANY Islam, moderate, radical, or otherwise, in this person's background.

He could be partly descended from some of the Rwandan Islamic minority, but the probability is tiny, unless there's evidence for it. Do you have any?

The problem here is the conflation of the terms "immigrant", "black", and "Muslim", which as far as the average* member of the English Defence League is concerned, are all synonyms.

The problem here is that it looked like the usual pattern of second generation immigrant going jihadi. And the police not giving details made people think it was.

 

[Tigers!]

The problem here is the conflation of the terms "immigrant", "black", and "Muslim", which as far as the average* member of the English Defence League is concerned, are all synonyms.

As a major hip-hop fan, I believe anyone who thinks 'African American' and 'Black British' are synonymous is completely mistaken.

I am reminded of the American cameraman who was asked to meet British News at Ten anchor, Trevor McDonald, at Templehof Airport during German reunification. He asked "What does this McDonald guy look like, how will I recognise him?", and the producer said, "Well, he's black...", only to be cut off by the rather shocked cameraman, who said "You mean African American".

The producer said "How can he be African American? He's an Englishman from Trinidad!"

Or the line from Lenny Henry, the comedian born in Dudley (in the English West Midlands, near Birmingham), to Jamaican parents. Asked "So, what was life like in Africa?", he replied "I don't know. I haven't lived there for two hundred and fifty years".

The majority of Black English people (but by no means all) are second or third generation descendants of people who came to England in the 1950s from the British owned parts of the Carribean. After WWII, Britain imported huge numbers of people from the Empire (mostly the Carribean and the Indian subcontinent) to help out with the massive labour shortage due to the war.

Most of the people that the EDL and other fascist morons want to "send back where they came from" came from such exotic locations as Brixton, Bradford, Leicester, and Birmingham; They were born in England, and so were many of their parents, and often their grandparents too. They speak English with the local accent, eat fish and chips, and drink warm beer in pubs;

Fish and chips: tick
Warm beer? Argh!

The only thing that sets them apart from the "Real Englishman^TM" is that their immigrant ancestors are sufficiently recent as to be easily traced.

"Racial purity" is a doubly insane concept in England, where even its advocates claim "anglo-saxon" heritage, without apparently noticing that the Angles and Saxons were two different peoples, both of them immigrant groups, or that both were integrated out of existence by the Norman French in the medieval period.

There are no "Britons" (not even in Wales or Cornwall, despite the romantic notions of the modern residents of those places); They were integrated out of existence by immigration from Romans (who were themselves people from the entire known world), then Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Normans, Dutchmen, Hugenot Frenchmen, and various waves of Jewish diaspora; then in the twentieth century by Indians, Africans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders and Americans brought in to help fight two world wars; Windrush Caribbeans; Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis (who like the Carribeans were begged to come to England to rebuild the cities bombed by the Luftwaffe); Poles, Czechs, Spaniards, Italians, Frenchmen, Germans, and others who took advantage of EU free movement rules between 1992 and 2020; And an ongoing influx of people from all over the British Commonwealth, who are attracted to the seat of the former Empire by the excessively rosy images taught in their schools (which gloss over the fact that England is cold, damp, and miserable).

Racism is not only idiotic, in England; It's barely even possible - and demands either an intense ignorance of ones own heritage, or a significant dose of self-hatred.

Great Britain has been a trade and resources zone, with massive inflows of migrants, since the paeleolithic, when the island was a centre of flint mining and knapping. The first official restrictions on anybody travelling to the United Kingdom were imposed in 1914, when passports were first introduced for non-diplomats; Before the outbreak of the Great War, the only thing anyone* needed in order to travel to the UK was a boat.

Not quite. Edward I imposed restrictions on the Jews in 1290 i.e expelled them all. (And don't come back.). Oliver Cromwell allowed them back in (offically) in 1656.

 

[bilby]

The problem here is the conflation of the terms "immigrant", "black", and "Muslim", which as far as the average* member of the English Defence League is concerned, are all synonyms.

As a major hip-hop fan, I believe anyone who thinks 'African American' and 'Black British' are synonymous is completely mistaken.

I am reminded of the American cameraman who was asked to meet British News at Ten anchor, Trevor McDonald, at Templehof Airport during German reunification. He asked "What does this McDonald guy look like, how will I recognise him?", and the producer said, "Well, he's black...", only to be cut off by the rather shocked cameraman, who said "You mean African American".

The producer said "How can he be African American? He's an Englishman from Trinidad!"

Or the line from Lenny Henry, the comedian born in Dudley (in the English West Midlands, near Birmingham), to Jamaican parents. Asked "So, what was life like in Africa?", he replied "I don't know. I haven't lived there for two hundred and fifty years".

The majority of Black English people (but by no means all) are second or third generation descendants of people who came to England in the 1950s from the British owned parts of the Carribean. After WWII, Britain imported huge numbers of people from the Empire (mostly the Carribean and the Indian subcontinent) to help out with the massive labour shortage due to the war.

Most of the people that the EDL and other fascist morons want to "send back where they came from" came from such exotic locations as Brixton, Bradford, Leicester, and Birmingham; They were born in England, and so were many of their parents, and often their grandparents too. They speak English with the local accent, eat fish and chips, and drink warm beer in pubs;

Fish and chips: tick
Warm beer? Argh!

It's not really 'warm'; It's sold at traditional pre-refrigeration "cellar" temperature, which is as cool as you could easily get back in the day.

The only thing that sets them apart from the "Real Englishman^TM" is that their immigrant ancestors are sufficiently recent as to be easily traced.

"Racial purity" is a doubly insane concept in England, where even its advocates claim "anglo-saxon" heritage, without apparently noticing that the Angles and Saxons were two different peoples, both of them immigrant groups, or that both were integrated out of existence by the Norman French in the medieval period.

There are no "Britons" (not even in Wales or Cornwall, despite the romantic notions of the modern residents of those places); They were integrated out of existence by immigration from Romans (who were themselves people from the entire known world), then Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Normans, Dutchmen, Hugenot Frenchmen, and various waves of Jewish diaspora; then in the twentieth century by Indians, Africans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders and Americans brought in to help fight two world wars; Windrush Caribbeans; Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis (who like the Carribeans were begged to come to England to rebuild the cities bombed by the Luftwaffe); Poles, Czechs, Spaniards, Italians, Frenchmen, Germans, and others who took advantage of EU free movement rules between 1992 and 2020; And an ongoing influx of people from all over the British Commonwealth, who are attracted to the seat of the former Empire by the excessively rosy images taught in their schools (which gloss over the fact that England is cold, damp, and miserable).

Racism is not only idiotic, in England; It's barely even possible - and demands either an intense ignorance of ones own heritage, or a significant dose of self-hatred.

Great Britain has been a trade and resources zone, with massive inflows of migrants, since the paeleolithic, when the island was a centre of flint mining and knapping. The first official restrictions on anybody travelling to the United Kingdom were imposed in 1914, when passports were first introduced for non-diplomats; Before the outbreak of the Great War, the only thing anyone* needed in order to travel to the UK was a boat.

Not quite. Edward I imposed restrictions on the Jews in 1290 i.e expelled them all. (And don't come back.). Oliver Cromwell allowed them back in (offically) in 1656.

I am not sure what part of what I wrote you believe this observation to contradict.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

Of course there is no such law.

The problem is that England has rather a record of appeasement towards misconduct by immigrants.

Appeasement? So the suspect is going to go free? Man, that is nuts. No one wonder white people are rioting, when people who murder children aren't held responsible for their crime and instead get told to be nicer.

Have you not heard the issues with England not paying much attention to pedophiles and forced marriage?

What do those accusations have to do with the British authorities letting this person go free? Committed acts of murder and they aren't even pressing charges?!

 

[marc]

Apparently the 'journalist' (right-wing propagandist) Andy Ngo is over there claiming roving mobs of muslims are attacking people, and Elon Musk is retweeting his posts. Meanwhile, actual right-wing mobs are blocking off area and asking any car that approaches if they are white.

 

[TomC]

What do those accusations have to do with the British authorities letting this person go free? Committed acts of murder and they aren't even pressing charges?!

Is that the case?
I don't believe it, but it gets hard to tell when people are posting true stuff, reported nonsense, lying, or being snarky/facetious.
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

I found an article that updated what's going on in relationship to the riots. I admit that I haven't been reading as much world news as usual as has been mentioned, we Murkins are all caught up with our own election etc. right now. Sorry bout that. If anyone bothers to read it, the article describes each day of these riots. And, the boy was the child of Christians. He was only 17. My guess is that he must have had some type of severe emotional issues, been bullied or something like that. It's like a lot of mass shootings in the US. A motive is never found. It's often a wish to be noticed. The reaction to these murders was insane and hateful.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/08/...e_code=1.CE4.XOWa.-kYqpv7-yYNH&smid=url-share

After more than a week of sporadic far-right violence, a fever seemed to ease in Britain on Wednesday night. An unconfirmed list of more than 30 target sites associated with the migration system, widely circulated online, summoned few would-be rioters but drew a heavy police presence and large crowds of protective counterprotesters.

During the previous days, racist and anti-immigrant rioting had flared in more than a dozen towns and cities across England and in Northern Ireland. Over 400 people were arrested, according to a police chiefs’ group. Many have gone to court. Some are already beginning prison sentences.

The spark for the rioting was anger over a knife attack that killed three young girls and falsehoods that spread online about the perpetrator.

Those participating in the riots have remained a small and strongly unpopular fringe, disowned even by politicians who seek to channel broader public misgivings about immigration. But that has not made the violence easy to stop.

Here is a timeline of how the unrest developed.

MONDAY, JULY 29

A stabbing attack that shocked the nation​

A knife-wielding attacker burst into a dance and bracelet-making class for young Taylor Swift fans in Southport, a coastal town in northwestern England. His assault killed three girls: Alice Dasilva Aguiar, 9; Elsie Dot Stancombe, 7; and Bebe King, 6. Eight other children and two adults were seriously wounded.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

Of course there is no such law.

The problem is that England has rather a record of appeasement towards misconduct by immigrants.

Appeasement? So the suspect is going to go free? Man, that is nuts. No one wonder white people are rioting, when people who murder children aren't held responsible for their crime and instead get told to be nicer.

Have you not heard the issues with England not paying much attention to pedophiles and forced marriage?

What do those accusations have to do with the British authorities letting this person go free? Committed acts of murder and they aren't even pressing charges?!

It's not that they would let him go free, but pretend that he wasn't a jihadist. In this case it looks like he probably wasn't.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The police took too long to say that the killer/suspect in custody was not a Muslim nor an immigrant. They did not need to name them. It is that tardiness or lack of information that encourages misinformation to propagate and fester. No excuse for the violence but let us not give such persons an excuse.

I'm a Yank, so I'm unfamiliar with the British Law that compels the Police to identify the national citizenship and religion of a minor suspected of committing a crime.

Of course there is no such law.

The problem is that England has rather a record of appeasement towards misconduct by immigrants.

Appeasement? So the suspect is going to go free? Man, that is nuts. No one wonder white people are rioting, when people who murder children aren't held responsible for their crime and instead get told to be nicer.

Have you not heard the issues with England not paying much attention to pedophiles and forced marriage?

What do those accusations have to do with the British authorities letting this person go free? Committed acts of murder and they aren't even pressing charges?!

It's not that they would let him go free, but pretend that he wasn't a jihadist. In this case it looks like he probably wasn't.

OMFG! How long do we need to wait before they call this person out for what he isn't? The authorities only have themselves to blame!