Rittenhouse/Kenosha Shooting Split

[J842P]

Wow, that's not incoherent at all. Maybe someone needs to install an immobilizer on the judge's bench. If he blows more than 0.05, the court is in recess.

Seriously? You think that was incoherent? Do you understand how serious what the prosecution did here is?

 

[J842P]

Again, you are just plain denying reality, or at the very least, completely ignorant of how the law works with regards to justifiable use of deadly force. In *every* single case that night Rittenhouse was completely justified in using his gun.

The self-defense defense for homicide is not available to use for any kind of threat, it only applies to threats of imminent death or great bodily harm. It's not at all clear cut that that is the case for every shot fired by KR.

Sufficient numbers constitutes such a threat even with no weapons involved.

If he has clean hands the second and third cases look justified. I do not think he has clean hands, though.

Loren, you imagine all sorts of things. Explain what evidence exists that Rittenhouse "didn't have clean hands", and as a bonus, please site the relevant statute about how that would affect his claim of self-defense in the case of Rosenbaum, vis a vis the *facts on the ground* of that shooting.

Loren does have an incredible propensity to seeking the hypothetical. Loren also has a very low bar for what is deemed self defense shootings. A very low bar. That even he questions what occurred should cause one to pause and reflect.

No, because it is entirely based on Lorens feeling that Rittenhouse "didn't have clean hands". Which is pure unmitigated bullshit.

 

[Swammerdami]

Has this whole trial been televised? I've not been following but today it made the Yahoo headlines.

The charges were over-reaching from the start, given Amerika's love of guns and the Freedumb to self-defend. Prosecution should have focused on the illegal possession of the fire-arm, itself a serious misdemeanor carrying a longish jail term.

Was there some way the illegal possession could have been charged as a felony? Was there no way to make the illegal possession over-ride self-defense and make the murders illegal?

Maybe they're better than whatever's in 2nd place, but I think some rules of evidence are flawed. Rittenhouse once bragged about wishing he'd brought his gun so he could kill him some shoplifters?? And the jurors, wise enough to decide Rittenhouse's future, are not wise enough to listen to facts? His crime might not meet the technical requirement of "depraved-heart murder," but he seems to have a depraved heart.

It is assholes like Rittenhouse — or the adults who filled him with hatred and gave him access to a gun — who have helped turn the U.S.A. into a shit-hole country.

 

[Metaphor]

A good thing for the left that the 'prison industrial complex' didn't get de-funded.

 

[Derec]

It is assholes like Rittenhouse — or the adults who filled him with hatred and gave him access to a gun — who have helped turn the U.S.A. into a shit-hole country.

No, it is assholes like Rosenberg, Huber and Grosskreutz, as well as elsewhere assholes like Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman that are threatening to turn this country into a shithole country with their regular violent rioting whenever they feel upset about something.

If there weren't violent unrests in Kenosha over several days, Rittenhouse would have just chilled and we all would not know his name

 

[Metaphor]

And just a reminder from the left: the rape of teenagers is funny

 

[Swammerdami]

It is assholes like Rittenhouse — or the adults who filled him with hatred and gave him access to a gun — who have helped turn the U.S.A. into a shit-hole country.

No, it is assholes like Rosenberg, Huber and Grosskreutz, as well as elsewhere assholes like Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman that are threatening to turn this country into a shithole country with their regular violent rioting whenever they feel upset about something.

So for you, arming 17-year old racists — Rittenhouse is a Proud Boys wannabe — with assault weapons and having them assist police is part of the solution?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For fuck sakes! I went to help... with my gun. Just like when the ambulance showed up when my Dad was suffering a seizure, the medics carried in their medical equipment and several guns.

Your dad had a seizure in the middle of some violent riots?

So clearly and unambiguously self defense that when Rittenhouse immediately sees a police car, he tells then about him shooting of three people and surrenders.

 

[Swammerdami]

So clearly and unambiguously self defense that when Rittenhouse immediately sees a police car, he tells then about him shooting of three people and surrenders.

Clearly. It was a mistake to charge Rittenhouse with any crime to which self-defense is a defense. Did prosecutors feel obligated to over-charge to avoid another round of riots?

This is George Zimmerman all over again. Rittenhouse's crime was to put himself — a callow little brat brandishing an assault rifle — in that position in the first place. I think depraved-heart statutes should have been applied, for which evidence the judge just suppressed would have had value.

My only legal expertise is watching Perry Mason 55 years ago. Why do I need to explain proper charging to prosecutors?

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, he'll walk.
And like every teen that gets away with shit, he'll beging to believe he's untouchable.
He'll go on to start taking pot shots at demonstrations, Democrat campaign busses, or some such.
Until his next crime is so egregious even Trump as the Judge couldn't get him off.

 

[Swammerdami]

So, he'll walk.
And like every teen that gets away with shit, he'll beging to believe he's untouchable.
He'll go on to start taking pot shots at demonstrations, Democrat campaign busses, or some such.
Until his next crime is so egregious even Trump as the Judge couldn't get him off.

Are you kidding? Your description may fit someone like George Zimmerman, but do you think Rittenhouse's crying was feigned? Would it not be, somehow immoral to cry tears like that, and then return, almost donning a cape to be a vigilante?

Of course I didn't actually watch the tears. (Is all this being televised?) I did finally get around to watching the OJ trial — No, not the original but the staging for TV in which John Travolta played lawyer Shapiro.

No I think Kyle was a callow kid who has suddenly grown up. The question is: Has he grown to follow a good path or a bad one? What would be a joy is to see Kyle renounce his vigilante fetish and became an advocate for peace and prosperity among his generation — sure have the survivor join in — argue against guns. Let them reject the right-wing rhetoric, embrace truth; even join hands with Greta Thurnberg. (What's with these mushrooms? Have they changed the dosage?)

Will Kyle be convicted of the possession misdemeanor he's charged with? If so will he get the maximum sentence? (Seven months in jail or whatever it is.) If he IS raped he should feel free to come forward and request a transfer. From society's standpoint, the jail term will be valuable if that's the way for Kyle to find God and show a better path for other stupid American teenagers. (They say optimism is good — Maybe I should be glad I ate that mushroom.)

 

[ZiprHead]

If that is the law, it looks like a pretty bad one: A person on the run would have to choose between getting killed and breaking the law. The rational choice would almost certainly be to break the law and shoot, which might or might not get him killed years later, depending on the punishment for shooting back and of course whether he actually gets caught. There is still a question as to whether that's a morally acceptable choice, of course: maybe it would be rational but immoral to shoot back, yet permissible but irrational not to! However, there probably are plenty of cases that do not fall into that category because it's not immoral to shoot back - e.g., at least, most of the cases in which the violence that was initiated did not amount to something for which he deserves to be executed.

The point is, and has been shown by the prosecution's line of questioning, that KR knew quite clearly he was putting himself into a dangerous situation which reduces significantly his ability to claim self defense.

You can't climb into a WWF wrestling ring and then cry unfair when get your ass beat.

 

[ZiprHead]

Loren does have an incredible propensity to seeking the hypothetical. Loren also has a very low bar for what is deemed self defense shootings. A very low bar. That even he questions what occurred should cause one to pause and reflect.

No, because it is entirely based on Lorens feeling that Rittenhouse "didn't have clean hands". Which is pure unmitigated bullshit.

Really? The Clean Hands Doctrine is a well established tenet of law.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, he'll walk.
And like every teen that gets away with shit, he'll beging to believe he's untouchable.
He'll go on to start taking pot shots at demonstrations, Democrat campaign busses, or some such.
Until his next crime is so egregious even Trump as the Judge couldn't get him off.

Are you kidding? Your description may fit someone like George Zimmerman, but do you think Rittenhouse's crying was feigned? Would it not be, somehow immoral to cry tears like that, and then return, almost donning a cape to be a vigilante?

He didn't cry. That wasn't spontaneous. He was being questioned by the Defense. And all of that questioning is practiced. High profile defense case like this, being questioned by his own attorney, it is theater.

This was nothing but a dirty ploy to make it seem that Rittenhouse is anything but a sociopath, who allegedly went to Kenosha to help as an EMT, yet ended up shooting three people and not even confessing about his self defense shootings to the cops he talked to immediately after the shooting.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Loren, you imagine all sorts of things. Explain what evidence exists that Rittenhouse "didn't have clean hands", and as a bonus, please site the relevant statute about how that would affect his claim of self-defense in the case of Rosenbaum, vis a vis the *facts on the ground* of that shooting.

Loren does have an incredible propensity to seeking the hypothetical. Loren also has a very low bar for what is deemed self defense shootings. A very low bar. That even he questions what occurred should cause one to pause and reflect.

No, because it is entirely based on Lorens feeling that Rittenhouse "didn't have clean hands". Which is pure unmitigated bullshit.

Had Rittenhouse acted in self-defense, he should have acted like he was acting in self-defense, instead of shooting people and then not telling the cops he talked to that he had shot those people in self-defense (or at all).

Then he cries on the stand about poor woe is me?! This kid is clearly a sociopath.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, he'll walk.
And like every teen that gets away with shit, he'll beging to believe he's untouchable.
He'll go on to start taking pot shots at demonstrations, Democrat campaign busses, or some such.
Until his next crime is so egregious even Trump as the Judge couldn't get him off.

Are you kidding? Your description may fit someone like George Zimmerman, but do you think Rittenhouse's crying was feigned?

It doesn't matter a damn. Real or feigned, it's a passing thing.
All this stress he's going through, if he's not punished at the end, he's going to feel that he never will.

Even if he's 'growing up' during this trial., the end result will determine the lasting effects. A whole bunch of people have dumped a lot of money into crafting his defense because of their ideology, and he's going to feel that these peopel will always come to his defense.

He's going to be like Luke in the cantina right after Obi Wan cut off that guy's arm. Luke did nothing, but he started swaggering like a victor, grabbing a drink off of a serving tray like he'd become the badass. Kyle's going to do the exact same thing. He'll shwo up at Proud Boys meetings as a hero and take it as his due.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

View attachment 36014

Wut? He looks very remorseful to me.

 

[Elixir]

All this stress he's going through, if he's not punished at the end, he's going to feel that he never will.

Yup. He will remain a danger to all.
So much so in fact, that someone can probably shoot him on sight and claim self defense.

 

[thebeave]

So, he'll walk.
And like every teen that gets away with shit, he'll beging to believe he's untouchable.
He'll go on to start taking pot shots at demonstrations, Democrat campaign busses, or some such.
Until his next crime is so egregious even Trump as the Judge couldn't get him off.

Are you kidding? Your description may fit someone like George Zimmerman, but do you think Rittenhouse's crying was feigned? Would it not be, somehow immoral to cry tears like that, and then return, almost donning a cape to be a vigilante?

He didn't cry. That wasn't spontaneous. He was being questioned by the Defense. And all of that questioning is practiced. High profile defense case like this, being questioned by his own attorney, it is theater.

This was nothing but a dirty ploy to make it seem that Rittenhouse is anything but a sociopath, who allegedly went to Kenosha to help as an EMT, yet ended up shooting three people and not even confessing about his self defense shootings to the cops he talked to immediately after the shooting.

What did you think about Christine Blasey-Ford's crying/pouting during the Kavenaugh hearing? Real or fake?