Roe v Wade is on deck

[TomC]

I presume the bill includes comprehensive sex education in school and widely available birth control.

This is the bottom line to me.

I'm a pretty hardcore ProLifer. I oppose elective abortions. But it's not very high on my list of ProLifer issues. War and environmental degradation are much higher.

But anybody who thinks that fighting abortions by messing over people after they're pregnant is worse than wrong, or stupid. They're actually evil. They're enjoying the schadenfreude of punishing people that they don't like and feel superior to.

Real ProLifers support efforts to prevent the pregnancies in the first place. Age appropriate sex ed starting young. Funding organizations like Planned Parenthood. That sort of thing.

Fight abortions pro-actively, not just mess with them later.
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

I presume the bill includes comprehensive sex education in school and widely available birth control.

This is the bottom line to me.

I'm a pretty hardcore ProLifer. I oppose elective abortions. But it's not very high on my list of ProLifer issues. War and environmental degradation are much higher.

But anybody who thinks that fighting abortions by messing over people after they're pregnant is worse than wrong, or stupid. They're actually evil. They're enjoying the schadenfreude of punishing people that they don't like and feel superior to.

Real ProLifers support efforts to prevent the pregnancies in the first place. Age appropriate sex ed starting young. Funding organizations like Planned Parenthood. That sort of thing.

Fight abortions pro-actively, not just mess with them later.
Tom

I respect your position. I understand where it is coming from. Agree that we should strive to lower all unwanted pregnancies. Having said that: I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

 

[ZiprHead]

https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/bud-kennedy/article259670215.html

Should Texas punish abortions by putting teenage girls and women to death? Or not? That’s the current debate in the Republican Party of Texas, where outlawing abortion is no longer a question of “if” or “when” but a question of whether to kill women for getting one.

North Richland Hills Republican David Lowe swears his campaign in the May 24 runoff election has nothing to do with killing women. “I’m not even a fan of the death penalty,” he told a Republican women’s club luncheon last week in downtown Fort Worth.

But then he went on to praise a House bill last session that would have made ending a pregnancy a potential capital crime.. In other words, Texas could kill the woman, along with anyone who encouraged her or helped. Lowe’s final comment was chilling. “Do we all agree that abortion is murder?” he asked the crowd. “Absolutely. There should be consequences for it.”

There's the pro-life party.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They aren't looking to kill the women... just the doctors...

...oh wait... that doesn't sound any better.

They want to punish the doctors more than convicted child molesters.

 

[Toni]

I presume the bill includes comprehensive sex education in school and widely available birth control.

This is the bottom line to me.

I'm a pretty hardcore ProLifer. I oppose elective abortions. But it's not very high on my list of ProLifer issues. War and environmental degradation are much higher.

But anybody who thinks that fighting abortions by messing over people after they're pregnant is worse than wrong, or stupid. They're actually evil. They're enjoying the schadenfreude of punishing people that they don't like and feel superior to.

Real ProLifers support efforts to prevent the pregnancies in the first place. Age appropriate sex ed starting young. Funding organizations like Planned Parenthood. That sort of thing.

Fight abortions pro-actively, not just mess with them later.
Tom

I am against abortions as well. In every case except when the woman or girl needs or wants one.

This is not a decision that anyone aside from the pregnant person and her medical provider gets to decide.

 

[bleubird]

Oklahoma state House passes ban on abortion, to be enforced through civil action | CNN Politics

The Republican-controlled Oklahoma House of Representatives on Tuesday passed a bill that would ban most abortions at any point in a pregnancy and would allow private citizens to enforce the law through civil litigation.

www.cnn.com

So Texan woman went to OK to get abortions,now they can't.
And these states have high teen mother rates and poor child support programs,go figure.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I presume the bill includes comprehensive sex education in school and widely available birth control.

This is the bottom line to me.

I'm a pretty hardcore ProLifer. I oppose elective abortions. But it's not very high on my list of ProLifer issues. War and environmental degradation are much higher.

But anybody who thinks that fighting abortions by messing over people after they're pregnant is worse than wrong, or stupid. They're actually evil. They're enjoying the schadenfreude of punishing people that they don't like and feel superior to.

Real ProLifers support efforts to prevent the pregnancies in the first place. Age appropriate sex ed starting young. Funding organizations like Planned Parenthood. That sort of thing.

Fight abortions pro-actively, not just mess with them later.
Tom

I am against abortions as well. In every case except when the woman or girl needs or wants one.

This is not a decision that anyone aside from the pregnant person and her medical provider gets to decide.

What about disinterested angry white men? Don't they get a say? If not, that is reverse discrimination!

 

[Toni]

I presume the bill includes comprehensive sex education in school and widely available birth control.

This is the bottom line to me.

I'm a pretty hardcore ProLifer. I oppose elective abortions. But it's not very high on my list of ProLifer issues. War and environmental degradation are much higher.

But anybody who thinks that fighting abortions by messing over people after they're pregnant is worse than wrong, or stupid. They're actually evil. They're enjoying the schadenfreude of punishing people that they don't like and feel superior to.

Real ProLifers support efforts to prevent the pregnancies in the first place. Age appropriate sex ed starting young. Funding organizations like Planned Parenthood. That sort of thing.

Fight abortions pro-actively, not just mess with them later.
Tom

I am against abortions as well. In every case except when the woman or girl needs or wants one.

This is not a decision that anyone aside from the pregnant person and her medical provider gets to decide.

What about disinterested angry white men? Don't they get a say? If not, that is reverse discrimination!

I'm totally cool with that.

 

[TomC]

I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

I'm also Pro-Choice.
As long as we understand that Choice includes refraining from potentially fertile sex.
Once two people have Chosen differently, they aren't the only ones involved any more.

There is a 100% safe, effective, and free form of birth control. Pregnancy is always the result of Choice.
Tom

 

[TomC]

What about disinterested angry white men? Don't they get a say? If not, that is reverse discrimination!

I'm totally cool with that.

You don't have to be a disinterested angry white man to be a father.

The way things are now(RvW) the male parent has no say.

The female parent could decide:
"I just wanted the sex. Not the baby. It's a clump of cells. Kill it."
And the male parent has no say.

Or:
"My baby is a gift from God. I want to be a mother. Everyone from the taxpayers to the father owes me 18 years of income."
And the male parent has no say.

It's pretty blatant gender discrimination.

Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

I'm also Pro-Choice.
As long as we understand that Choice includes refraining from potentially fertile sex.
Once two people have Chosen differently, they aren't the only ones involved any more.

There is a 100% safe, effective, and free form of birth control. Pregnancy is always the result of Choice.
Tom

Come on Tom! You're a great poster and critical thinker. You know that the above is not always true.

 

[thebeave]

I presume the bill includes comprehensive sex education in school and widely available birth control.

This is the bottom line to me.

I'm a pretty hardcore ProLifer. I oppose elective abortions. But it's not very high on my list of ProLifer issues. War and environmental degradation are much higher.

But anybody who thinks that fighting abortions by messing over people after they're pregnant is worse than wrong, or stupid. They're actually evil. They're enjoying the schadenfreude of punishing people that they don't like and feel superior to.

Real ProLifers support efforts to prevent the pregnancies in the first place. Age appropriate sex ed starting young. Funding organizations like Planned Parenthood. That sort of thing.

Fight abortions pro-actively, not just mess with them later.
Tom

I respect your position. I understand where it is coming from. Agree that we should strive to lower all unwanted pregnancies. Having said that: I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

I'm pro-choice too (but only up to a certain point though). But, I've always had a bit of an issue with the rationale being that the woman should have control of her body. Specifically, there is a point late in the pregnancy when we, as a civilized society say, "uh...no. Its too late now". So, doesn't your rationale kinda of break down at that point, and she no longer legally has autonomy over her body?

Keep in mind many anti-vaxxers used the "my body, my choice" rationale for reasoning why they shouldn't get be required to get vaccinated (which I also strongly disagreed with). You can't really have it both ways, IMHO.

 

[TomC]

I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

I'm also Pro-Choice.
As long as we understand that Choice includes refraining from potentially fertile sex.
Once two people have Chosen differently, they aren't the only ones involved any more.

There is a 100% safe, effective, and free form of birth control. Pregnancy is always the result of Choice.
Tom

Come on Tom! You're a great poster and critical thinker. You know that the above is not always true.

Which part?

That abstaining from potentially fertile sex prevents pregnancy?
Yes, actually it does.
Tom

 

[Keith&Co.]

It's pretty blatant gender discrimination.

Tom

Considering where the womb tends to turn up, how else could this be arranged?

 

[Harry Bosch]

I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

I'm also Pro-Choice.
As long as we understand that Choice includes refraining from potentially fertile sex.
Once two people have Chosen differently, they aren't the only ones involved any more.

There is a 100% safe, effective, and free form of birth control. Pregnancy is always the result of Choice.
Tom

Come on Tom! You're a great poster and critical thinker. You know that the above is not always true.

Which part?

That abstaining from potentially fertile sex prevents pregnancy?
Yes, actually it does.
Tom

You never heard of rape before??? Secondly, and this might be a major insight to you, sometimes people have sex without consenting to wanting a child.

 

[TomC]

It's pretty blatant gender discrimination.

Tom

Considering where the womb tends to turn up, how else could this be arranged?

Give the male parent the legal right to refuse the burden of parenthood, the way female parents already can.


Don't get me wrong. I'm fine with legally enforced child support. I wish that there was a feasible way to enforce that better than we(U.S. society) do. I've got no problem with gender equality on this subject.
Tom

 

[Keith&Co.]

I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

I'm also Pro-Choice.
As long as we understand that Choice includes refraining from potentially fertile sex.
Once two people have Chosen differently, they aren't the only ones involved any more.

There is a 100% safe, effective, and free form of birth control. Pregnancy is always the result of Choice.
Tom

Come on Tom! You're a great poster and critical thinker. You know that the above is not always true.

Which part?

That abstaining from potentially fertile sex prevents pregnancy?
Yes, actually it does.
Tom

When you say 'potentially fertile sex' do you include those instances where the birth control fails? People who honestly thought they were not fertile having sex then turning up embabied? Pill failed, rubber broke, vasectomy healed?

Or ignorance? Those kids growing up in districts with piddle-poor or no sex ed believing the locker-room talk that virgins cannot get pregnant, for instance? That was popular in my high school. Odd for a heavily agricultural community, we all could SEE that's not how it worked in dogs, cats, horses, cattle, or Mormons, but the myth persisted.

Or lies? If he or she told the other they were fixed?

 

[Keith&Co.]

It's pretty blatant gender discrimination.

Tom

Considering where the womb tends to turn up, how else could this be arranged?

Give the male parent the legal right to refuse the burden of parenthood, the way female parents already can.

That would require a major overhaul to the US approach to healthcare, childcare, and public education. Else the kid is just doomed.

 

[Jarhyn]

I am pro-choice. Primarily due to the theory that control of a woman's body should be determined by the woman. A woman's rights shouldn't be subservient to the fetus.

I'm also Pro-Choice.
As long as we understand that Choice includes refraining from potentially fertile sex.
Once two people have Chosen differently, they aren't the only ones involved any more.

There is a 100% safe, effective, and free form of birth control. Pregnancy is always the result of Choice.
Tom

Come on Tom! You're a great poster and critical thinker. You know that the above is not always true.

Which part?

That abstaining from potentially fertile sex prevents pregnancy?
Yes, actually it does.
Tom

When you say 'potentially fertile sex' do you include those instances where the birth control fails? People who honestly thought they were not fertile having sex then turning up embabied? Pill failed, rubber broke, vasectomy healed?

Or ignorance? Those kids growing up in districts with piddle-poor or no sex ed believing the locker-room talk that virgins cannot get pregnant, for instance? That was popular in my high school. Odd for a heavily agricultural community, we all could SEE that's not how it worked in dogs, cats, horses, cattle, or Mormons, but the myth persisted.

Or lies? If he or she told the other they were fixed?

Dude, the folks I went to BCT/OSUT with could have stood to get a full-on extra round of 6'th grade elementary level sex-ed.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Dude, the folks I went to BCT/OSUT with could have stood to get a full-on extra round of 6'th grade elementary level sex-ed.

Shit, i forgot about boot camp. The guy telling me, quite earnestly, about sticking a penny in, and if it came out with verdigris, she had an STD. If it didn't, she was 'clean.' Nothing we could say would disuade him.
Pretty sure he ended up one of those pictures they show at the hygiene lectures.

Yeah, 6th grade sex-ed, or 4th grade Health? A year in 4-H?

Two pet mice?

Something.