Roe v Wade is on deck

[Rhea]

I'm also Pro-Choice.
As long as we understand that Choice includes refraining from potentially fertile sex.

Here’s Tom saying that married heterosexual couples have to STOP HAVING SEX COMPLTELY so that he can say what women do with their bodies.

It’s not about the abortion, it’s about controlling sexuality.

Once two people have Chosen differently, they aren't the only ones involved any more.

He says, proclaiming that a 2-cell entity has the rights of a person.
Why? Why?
Why do you name a 2 cell entity, or a 64 cell entity to have the right to another person’s body.

And the morality play here… “They chose,” Oh, those shameful women. Wanting to have sex and not be parents.

There is a 100% safe, effective, and free form of birth control. Pregnancy is always the result of Choice.
Tom

But you know, here is the kicker, Tom. Even if you choose to drive drunk, and hit a car and injure the driver such that she needs a kidney, and you have one that matches, Even if you chose to get behind the wheel, there are laws - constitutional rights - that prevent anyone from forcing you to donate your kidney, even if that women will die without you.

Because… in America you have an inalienable right to say what happens to your body, even if someone dies due to your choice.

Yet you think women don’t have this right that you have.
We’re not really human. Are we. Just sex-vessels, right?

You can say “no” to a blood donation needed by someone you caused to need blood. But as soon as she has sex, she doesn’t get the same rights as you.

You can say “no” to an eye donation if you poke out someone else’s, but women who have sex don’t have the bodily autonomy that you get.

Women who have sex are your property, right? Even if they didn’t even have sex with YOU, you still want to own their bodies, and stand on their necks, and claim they don’t get the same rights as you have.

The way things are now(RvW) the male parent has no say.

The female parent could decide:
"I just wanted the sex. Not the baby. It's a clump of cells. Kill it."
And the male parent has no say.

The male is not a parent, Tom. No one is a parent that early.
I’m not a mother of 5. I’m a mother of 2. And the three pregnancies that didn’t take - they were pregnancies that didn’t take.
And the male does not get to say that another human has to sacrifice their body to his wishes.

No one, in any case, anywhere in America, is forced to use their body or organs or blood against their will; even if another person needs it, even if they are the reason another person needs it. But you want to take that from women - who have sex.

How come you’re not going after all the violent criminals in prison to forcibly remove their organs if it benefits one of their victims? They choose to commit a crime; aren’t you arguing that they should be forced to donate blood, liver slices, marrow, skin grafts, eyes, lungs whenever needed?

How come you “pro-lifers” never argue for that?

You just have a deep disrespect for women who have sex.

Or:
"My baby is a gift from God. I want to be a mother. Everyone from the taxpayers to the father owes me 18 years of income."
And the male parent has no say.

It's pretty blatant gender discrimination.

Tom

Sure is. You should work on that. I suggest changing child welfare laws so that women don’t need to ask for it.


But your barbaric idea that women lose their rights when they have sex and become vessels for YOU to insist that they should be forced to submit to another person’s use of their body against their will is, and has always been, unjust.

 

[laughing dog]

The most specific oddity of the argument is that we are talking about a woman's right to choose to have an abortion. And the counter is that "but men are on the hook if she gets pregnant and wants to have the baby".

Could you be more clear?

I'm pretty sure I am who you're talking about. But I don't believe that.

I think all parents who choose to make a baby have Chosen a level of responsibility. Biology dictates some of the responsibilities, but they're there nevertheless.

Tom

Once you realize that choosing to have sex is not necessarily choosing to have a baby, you realize you have no argument.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Also note that Tom's "what about the mens" whining only puts the onus on one gender, then he whines about discrimination?

Fuck that noise. There were two people who made the decision to have sex, but under his paradigm, only one suffers the consequences.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Very much so. The response to whether a woman has the right to her body is "but what about the guys rights?"

If a woman wants to have a right to an abortion, men shouldn't have to pay for their babies. In other words, the Toms out there want to be able to financially blackmail a woman into getting an abortion. Nice.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Loren, you are woefully uninformed about modern sexual practices, use of birth control, abortifacients, pregnancy signs and symptoms, much less incorrect results. Nor gave you considered whether or not a girl or woman is able to get time off from schoo/work to procure an abortion if she’s able to locate a provider in the time frame that allows her to obtain an abortion and also not the costs of transportation and lodging—for starters.

No. What's going on is I'm expecting her to act like a responsible adult rather than favoring a system that always sides with the woman regardless of fairness.

There are a few pregnancies that legitimately go undetected, but unless you expect to be missing periods you should have taken a pregnancy test long before the limit on abortion.

As for time off work--as I said, she bears half the responsibility, let her take a bit of it. Can't identify the father--sorry, plan ahead. If you're going to be in that situation be prepared to deal with the consequences. If you're not ready to deal with an oops you're not ready for sex in the first place.

 

[Elixir]

If you're not ready to deal with an oops you're not ready for sex in the first place.

"... so if you screw up, screw you! Guy ran away, and you let him? Hope he does well, and you have a nice life trying to raise a kid alone on no money. Your own fault. Maybe you should just end it now."

 

[Toni]

Loren, you are woefully uninformed about modern sexual practices, use of birth control, abortifacients, pregnancy signs and symptoms, much less incorrect results. Nor gave you considered whether or not a girl or woman is able to get time off from schoo/work to procure an abortion if she’s able to locate a provider in the time frame that allows her to obtain an abortion and also not the costs of transportation and lodging—for starters.

No. What's going on is I'm expecting her to act like a responsible adult rather than favoring a system that always sides with the woman regardless of fairness.

There are a few pregnancies that legitimately go undetected, but unless you expect to be missing periods you should have taken a pregnancy test long before the limit on abortion.

As for time off work--as I said, she bears half the responsibility, let her take a bit of it. Can't identify the father--sorry, plan ahead. If you're going to be in that situation be prepared to deal with the consequences. If you're not ready to deal with an oops you're not ready for sex in the first place.

I did not expect that I could get pregnant when I conceived for the first time. There were no at home pregnancy tests. I still had pseudo periods. But thanks for your rather insulting inexpert exceedingly ignorant and patronizing pseudo diagnosis of a stranger on the internet.

Many women have very irregular periods abs may skip for months. Some birth control regimes can reduce or even eliminate periods—I knew women whose periods were almost imperceptible while on some birth control. A firmer neighbor told me about taking her best friend to the ear with what they both thought was appendicitis. Turns out, the baby was nearly born by the time my friend parked her car. Her friend who just became a mother rarely ever had periods, had not been sexually active for…9 months when she abs her boyfriend broke up. She was very overweight and the baby laid in such a position that he really didn’t move so that she felt it.

Loren, there’s a whole reality show devoted to women who unexpectedly have babies when they didn’t know they were pregnant.

 

[Toni]

If you're not ready to deal with an oops you're not ready for sex in the first place.

"... so if you screw up, screw you! Guy ran away, and you let him? Hope he does well, and you have a nice life trying to raise a kid alone on no money. Your own fault. Maybe you should just end it now."

If the man isn’t ready for an oops baby, he needs to not engage in inter course with any woman who is potentially fertile.

 

[Elixir]

If you're not ready to deal with an oops you're not ready for sex in the first place.

"... so if you screw up, screw you! Guy ran away, and you let him? Hope he does well, and you have a nice life trying to raise a kid alone on no money. Your own fault. Maybe you should just end it now."

If the man isn’t ready for an oops baby, he needs to not engage in inter course with any woman who is potentially fertile.

Absolutely.
Thing is, he bears half (or more) of the "responsibility" but none of the real-life consequences.
It's exclusively the woman's body at risk and at stake, so IMHO it should be her exclusive choice to carry to term or abort, and either way, the consequences should be shared by and if necessary, forced upon the male.
Should I have used that "sarcastic" emoji in the previous post? (Do we even have one?)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Very much so. The response to whether a woman has the right to her body is "but what about the guys rights?"

If a woman wants to have a right to an abortion, men shouldn't have to pay for their babies. In other words, the Toms out there want to be able to financially blackmail a woman into getting an abortion. Nice.

Note that my position isn't one of blackmail. I specifically included allowing her to opt out of the rule--if she won't accept abortion she simply needs to be up front about it.

 

[Elixir]

Very much so. The response to whether a woman has the right to her body is "but what about the guys rights?"

If a woman wants to have a right to an abortion, men shouldn't have to pay for their babies. In other words, the Toms out there want to be able to financially blackmail a woman into getting an abortion. Nice.

Note that my position isn't one of blackmail. I specifically included allowing her to opt out of the rule--if she won't accept abortion she simply needs to be up front about it.

From "How to get in the Mood", Chapter III.

 

[Toni]

If you're not ready to deal with an oops you're not ready for sex in the first place.

"... so if you screw up, screw you! Guy ran away, and you let him? Hope he does well, and you have a nice life trying to raise a kid alone on no money. Your own fault. Maybe you should just end it now."

If the man isn’t ready for an oops baby, he needs to not engage in inter course with any woman who is potentially fertile.

Absolutely.
Thing is, he bears half (or more) of the "responsibility" but none of the real-life consequences.
It's exclusively the woman's body at risk and at stake, so IMHO it should be her exclusive choice to carry to term or abort, and either way, the consequences should be shared by and if necessary, forced upon the male.
Should I have used that "sarcastic" emoji in the previous post? (Do we even have one?)

I've started trying to remember to use [/s] to denote sarcasm. It's recent and I won't pretend that I'm consistent or other people have realized that's what I did.

 

[Toni]

Very much so. The response to whether a woman has the right to her body is "but what about the guys rights?"

If a woman wants to have a right to an abortion, men shouldn't have to pay for their babies. In other words, the Toms out there want to be able to financially blackmail a woman into getting an abortion. Nice.

Note that my position isn't one of blackmail. I specifically included allowing her to opt out of the rule--if she won't accept abortion she simply needs to be up front about it.

If he won’t accept paying child support, he needs to be upfront about it as well, use a condom throughout any sexual encounter and put down a deposit towards any medical care that might be required as a result of his orgasm. In addition, he needs to set up an escrow account to cover her share of any legal fees when she pursues him for child support if she becomes pregnant, as well as to cover any loss of wages, etc. as a result of his orgasm.

Believe it or not but women are living, thinking human beings with their own individual health needs and concerns, thoughts and feelings about pregnancy, abortion, parenthood, adoption, marriage, co-parenting, career and educational attainment and pathways and a host of other factors to consider.

The whole wham bam thank you ma’am ideology is a fraud which shortchanged all of society.

 

[TomC]

No. What's going on is I'm expecting her to act like a responsible adult rather than favoring a system that always sides with the woman regardless of fairness.

You're beating your head against a brick wall.

Gender discrimination is a terrible thing, unless it benefits females. Then it's required.
Get over yourself dude.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Very much so. The response to whether a woman has the right to her body is "but what about the guys rights?"

If a woman wants to have a right to an abortion, men shouldn't have to pay for their babies. In other words, the Toms out there want to be able to financially blackmail a woman into getting an abortion. Nice.

Note that my position isn't one of blackmail. I specifically included allowing her to opt out of the rule--if she won't accept abortion she simply needs to be up front about it.

“opt out”? A woman‘s right to her body isn’t contingent on opt outs and restrictions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No. What's going on is I'm expecting her to act like a responsible adult rather than favoring a system that always sides with the woman regardless of fairness.

You're beating your head against a brick wall.

Gender discrimination is a terrible thing, unless it benefits females. Then it's required.
Get over yourself dude.
Tom

Gender discrimination has nothing to do with abortion as men can’t get pregnant.

 

[TomC]

No. What's going on is I'm expecting her to act like a responsible adult rather than favoring a system that always sides with the woman regardless of fairness.

You're beating your head against a brick wall.

Gender discrimination is a terrible thing, unless it benefits females. Then it's required.
Get over yourself dude.
Tom

Gender discrimination has nothing to do with abortion as men can’t get pregnant.

I'm sure you believe that.

Bless Your Heart.
Tom

 

[Worldtraveller]

No. What's going on is I'm expecting her to act like a responsible adult rather than favoring a system that always sides with the woman regardless of fairness.

You're beating your head against a brick wall.

Gender discrimination is a terrible thing, unless it benefits females. Then it's required.
Get over yourself dude.
Tom

Gender discrimination has nothing to do with abortion as men can’t get pregnant.

I'm sure you believe that.

Bless Your Heart.
Tom

Show us on this doll where the mean ol' woman hurt your fee fees.....

 

[TomC]

No. What's going on is I'm expecting her to act like a responsible adult rather than favoring a system that always sides with the woman regardless of fairness.

You're beating your head against a brick wall.

Gender discrimination is a terrible thing, unless it benefits females. Then it's required.
Get over yourself dude.
Tom

Gender discrimination has nothing to do with abortion as men can’t get pregnant.

I'm sure you believe that.

Bless Your Heart.
Tom

Show us on this doll where the mean ol' woman hurt your fee fees.....

There's a reason I don't usually bother discussing this issue on the internet.

I'm sorry I posted in this thread.
Bless Your Heart.
Tom

 

[Keith&Co.]

There's a reason I don't usually bother discussing this issue on the internet.

But, it's two different issues.
Child support isn't about the woman, it's about the child. Seeing it as the opposite of abortion rights, or part of the szme issue, misses the entire point of why it exists.

And that's whether the kid's male or female, so fuck gender discrimination victim role play.