Russia: Don't look for who did the MH17 shootdown

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't see the relevance.

It got you to make a post which moved the discussion away from the topic of the thread. Then it got me to make another post in response to it. Then someone may make yet another response to my post. All of these serve to move the conversation in a different direction and away from the subject matter.

That's the relevance. It's not even being done subtly.

 

[barbos]

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/ge/newsgeneral.php?id=1153655

relevant information.

I don't see the relevance.

I am not surprised, you have uncanny ability in that regard.

 

[Ford]

I don't see the relevance.

It got you to make a post which moved the discussion away from the topic of the thread. Then it got me to make another post in response to it. Then someone may make yet another response to my post. All of these serve to move the conversation in a different direction and away from the subject matter.

That's the relevance. It's not even being done subtly.

So then let's talk about how the decadent West is corrupt!

 

[Will Wiley]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...rosecute-mh17-perpetrators/?intcmp=latestnews

If they know it's the Ukranians why wouldn't they be pushing for answers???

I think the Russians recognize a lynch mob when they see one.

“Unfortunately, it seems that this is an attempt to organize a grandiose political show which only damages efforts to find the guilty parties,”

That seems to be what it is.

The current investigation is so corrupt it's not funny. It's led by the Dutch who are a NATO country and has Ukraine as one of the participants. What a joke.
It's ridiculously secretive
Why the Secrecy on the Mh17 Investigation I'd disagree with his thoughts about it not being a buk (more has come to light since he wrote that) but he is bang on about the excessive secrecy.

Although the precise circumstances were at that point unknown the western media were quick to blame Ukrainian “rebels”. The means by which MH17 was destroyed, the media alleged, was a surface to air BUK missile supplied to the “rebels” by Russia. For a host of reasons it was almost certainly not a BUK missile that caused the crash. The stage was set however, for a demonization of Russia in general as the alleged supplier of the missile, and President Vladimir Putin in particular. The relentless propaganda enforcing this view has continued unabated to this day, although the evidential foundation for the allegations remains at best remote.

The silence of America is telling.
MH-17 Mystery: A New Tonkin Gulf Case?

Exclusive: In 1964, the Tonkin Gulf incident was used to justify the Vietnam War although U.S. intelligence quickly knew the facts were not what the U.S. government claimed. Now, the MH-17 case is being exploited to justify a new Cold War as U.S. intelligence again is silent about what it knows, writes Robert Parry.

All the "evidence" has been pretty much debunked, Re-examining the Luhansk video, MH17 – another BUK on another Day, and fragment damage to the left engine cowling shows a missile did not come from Snizhne which was right in front of the plane. So America lied there.
But hey they lied about the gulf of Tonkin and gullible people swallowed that too. they lied about Iraq, they lied about Syria. The list goes on and on

 

[Will Wiley]

I want a tribunal over your wife beating.

If you can show I have a beaten wife, then that would be appropriate since it would be imperative to find out who did it. If I tried to stop the tribunal, you wouldn't need to come up with two reasons as to why I was doing that.

We do have a plane that was shot down and there's only one side putting up roadblocks to finding out what happened.

Um..thats not true. America is covering up. All they point to is social media.
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQRvINebeok[/YOUTUBE]

The Ukrainians shelled the bloody crash site before investigators could get there!

It's a coverup.
MH17 – The Methodology of an International Cover-Up

Investigative journalists’ inquiries into the facts behind the fateful crash of Malaysia Airlines on Flight MH17 on July 17, 2014 are being stonewalled by all of the directly and indirectly implicated parties. The discourse is dominated by political and geopolitical positioning and scapegoating with the aid of “partial” not independently verifiable “evidence”. Everything, including law, suggests that all parties are interested in denying investigative journalists access to verifiable, testable evidence

Of course there seems to be some disagreement in US intelligence circles about who fired a missile.
The Mystery of a Ukrainian Army ‘Defector’

The Los Angeles Times article on Tuesday’s briefing seemed to address the same information this way: “U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.”

That statement about a possible “defector” might explain why some analysts thought they saw soldiers in Ukrainian army uniforms tending to the missile battery in eastern Ukraine. But there is another obvious explanation that the U.S. intelligence community seems unwilling to accept: that the missile may have been launched by someone working for the Ukrainian military.

 

[Will Wiley]

It got you to make a post which moved the discussion away from the topic of the thread. Then it got me to make another post in response to it. Then someone may make yet another response to my post. All of these serve to move the conversation in a different direction and away from the subject matter.

That's the relevance. It's not even being done subtly.

So then let's talk about how the decadent West is corrupt!

Americans certainly aren't. After the lies of the gulf of Tonkin which led to untold deaths they stood up and held the liars to account.
After the lies which led again to untold innocent people dying in Iraq they held the liars accountable.

Except they didn't. They didn't do either of these things. No wonder you keep getting lied to


So

 

[Harry Bosch]

Americans certainly aren't. After the lies of the gulf of Tonkin which led to untold deaths they stood up and held the liars to account. After the lies which led again to untold innocent people dying in Iraq they held the liars accountable. Except they didn't. They didn't do either of these things. No wonder you keep getting lied to So

Who are you alleging shot down the jet?

 

[Will Wiley]

Americans certainly aren't. After the lies of the gulf of Tonkin which led to untold deaths they stood up and held the liars to account. After the lies which led again to untold innocent people dying in Iraq they held the liars accountable. Except they didn't. They didn't do either of these things. No wonder you keep getting lied to So

Who are you alleging shot down the jet?

Someone who fired a buk missile from the side of the plane, assuming it was a buk. Not in front of the plane, meaning the American story involving Snizhne is wrong.. Someone who the Americans want to cover for. The "social media" story promoted by the USA has fallen apart. The American know where the missile came from. John Kerry said so. But instead of presenting one iota of their evidence they fed us youtube videos and facebook posts (most of which were removed and accounts closed shortly after being posted or which came from the SBU), and then went silent as far as evidence goes.
I don't know but for the sake of discussion I'll have a guess.
My guess, and it's a guess, is that it was a rogue element of the Ukrainian army under the control of Kolomoisky. It is just too counterproductive for NATO and the USA if this comes out though. So we have this secret never ending investigation by NATO countries with no evidence being released. Russia has been blamed sanctions were put in place. No evidence will ever be presented that they did it except the already discredited social media nonsense.
It may not have even been a buk. The investigators must know but they will never release any evidence.

From here

By implication, and due to the fact that the governments of Australia, Ukraine, USA, the UK, Malaysia and Russia have delegated investigators and become party to the DSB-led investigation, they have thus agreed to work within the framework of the Kingdom Act. That is – no independently testable and verifiable information will be made available to the public.

 

[Will Wiley]

I don't recall a tribunal over that Iranian plane shot down by US ship.
The whole idea of creating a tribunal over tragic but nevertheless accident is flat out retarded, or in this case political.

Of course there was no investigation into who shot it down--there was never an issue as to where the missiles came from! This is totally a red herring.

Thats about as believable as the crap you post about Israel

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Of course there was no investigation into who shot it down--there was never an issue as to where the missiles came from! This is totally a red herring.

Thats about as believable as the crap you post about Israel

Has anyone said the missile that shot down that Iranian airliner came from anyplace other than the Vincennes? The issue has always been the circumstances that caused the captain to order the launch, not whether he did so.

 

[arkirk]

Struggles for power...weapons...sanctions...anything to extend or maintain by both sides in this conflict. Send a plane into a conflict zone...get it shot down. This is not really an issue of whodoneit! Worldwide, the political machines are busy trying to destroy each other without themselves getting destroyed. In an age overloaded with existential threats, many of which have no particular political allegiance, we engage in cutthroat politics and pressure cooker wars. These struggles are all about political and economic power of certain individuals and not about policies that are truly important to the human race.

I am for complete disclosure on who killed whom and how...if that is possible. Unfortunately we will not be seeing that while the west and Russia engage in arm wrestling over a progressively poorer borderland territory with its own heroes and villains. The real villains are the richest participants who pay the bills for this shit.

 

[barbos]

Thats about as believable as the crap you post about Israel

Has anyone said the missile that shot down that Iranian airliner came from anyplace other than the Vincennes?
The issue has always been the circumstances that caused the captain to order the launch, not whether he did so.

You are the IBM Watson let loose, aren't you?

- - - Updated - - -

Struggles for power...weapons...sanctions...anything to extend or maintain by both sides in this conflict. Send a plane into a conflict zone...get it shot down. This is not really an issue of whodoneit! Worldwide, the political machines are busy trying to destroy each other without themselves getting destroyed. In an age overloaded with existential threats, many of which have no particular political allegiance, we engage in cutthroat politics and pressure cooker wars. These struggles are all about political and economic power of certain individuals and not about policies that are truly important to the human race.

I am for complete disclosure on who killed whom and how...if that is possible. Unfortunately we will not be seeing that while the west and Russia engage in arm wrestling over a progressively poorer borderland territory with its own heroes and villains. The real villains are the richest participants who pay the bills for this shit.

Yes

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Has anyone said the missile that shot down that Iranian airliner came from anyplace other than the Vincennes?
The issue has always been the circumstances that caused the captain to order the launch, not whether he did so.

You are the IBM Watson let loose, aren't you?

That's not addressing the point.

 

[barbos]

You are the IBM Watson let loose, aren't you?

That's not addressing the point.

That's ironic, coming from you.
(I actually addressed this "point" before you even posted it, you really need to read before you post)

 

[Cerberus]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...rosecute-mh17-perpetrators/?intcmp=latestnews

If they know it's the Ukranians why wouldn't they be pushing for answers???

I don't think anyone knows who actually did it. There's too much 'smoke and mirrors' here for my liking, apparently intended to demonise Putin's Russia.

 

[tupac chopra]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...rosecute-mh17-perpetrators/?intcmp=latestnews

If they know it's the Ukranians why wouldn't they be pushing for answers???

Fox News? Hmmmm

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_28511779/russias-un-draft-mh17-crash-doesnt-call-tribunal

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Russia on Monday introduced a U.N. resolution demanding that those responsible for shooting down a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine last year be brought to justice — but eliminating the international tribunal that the five countries investigating the crash are seeking to prosecute the perpetrators.

The rival Russian draft resolution, obtained by The Associated Press, expresses concern that the investigation isn't ensuring "due transparency in its organization and work methods, which may have a negative impact on its outcome."

Russia's call for more transparency is a good call. The whole process has been far too secretive. Why?

 

[tupac chopra]

Moscow calls for greater UN involvement in MH17 crash investigation, not ‘political propaganda game’

Moscow calls for greater UN involvement in MH17 crash investigation, not ‘political propaganda game’

“I am satisfied with the outcome of the talks, though of course we did have disagreements with our western colleagues,” UN envoy Vitaly Churkin told the press after the Monday meeting. “The media is currently creating an atmosphere of heavy propaganda pressure. But despite this climate, I felt a desire among the Security Council to avoid joining in the propaganda, and instead to help with an investigation that will lead to a court hearing.”

“We kept on repeating a completely obvious thing, that the UN Security Council should not engage in the creation of criminal courts, as the Malaysian initiative calls for. It’s simply not a statutory prerogative of the Security Council to create criminal courts and lead them under the rubric of a threat to international security,” Churkin said.

Makes sense

 

[Cerberus]

My theory is that Obama and Cameron are hoping against hope that obsessing over, and demonising Putin and Assad will make IS go away. The truth is that they haven't the faintest idea what to do about IS - and IS knows it!! Be afraid, be very afraid!

 

[barbos]

Homeless with a spoon versus new and improved Ukrainian police.

 

[Jayjay]

Homeless with a spoon versus new and improved Ukrainian police

I find it unlikely that MH17 was brought down with a spoon, so I'm not sure what you think is the relevance of this video.