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Russia: Don't look for who did the MH17 shootdown

Jayjay said:
barbos said:
Nobody cares about appendix and secondary fragmentation. It's page 146 and you keep avoiding addressing the point.
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That is a separate issue. And if you don't care about secondary fragmentation, why did you reply to a post about it? Sheesh.
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To tell you that I don't care about it and neither should you. Fact is, nobody here is qualified to judge it one way or another.
I notice, you still have not explained what you think is wrong with page 146,
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I did, you simply conveniently missed it.
which accurately says that the Almaz-Antey simulation was based on NLR/TNO data.
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It does not say that at all.
Does your silence mean that you concede the point and agree that the DSB report does not misrepresent Almaz Antey in any way? :rolleyes:
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No, it does not mean that.
 
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Jayjay said:
Will Wiley said:
People like you, they just wish you had your own mind. If Holland had some backbone they would have objected to having Ukraine as one of the investigators.
MH-17 investigation is an injustice to all the relatives of the 298 victims

?
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Iiskola is a known paid shill for Russian propaganda. He has zero credibility. But even taking the argument at face value, it's false because Ukraine maybe part of the investigative committee but the committee also included Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia and Belgium. Ukraine isn't running the investigation and even if they were a suspect their ability to impact the investigation would be limited.
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No one knows what role Ukraine plays because the agreement they all signed is secret
 
Horatio Parker said:
Why should Almaz-Antey be considered more credible than the Dutch?
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Because Kremlin says so! If this thread has taught you anything, it should be that no matter what evidence is presented to the contrary, Russia had nothing to do with the shoot-down, because Kremlin says so. Kremlin always right. Glorious leader Putin always right. Everything else sinister Western propaganda, CIA plot, and also Dutch assholes.


Did you read page 146 of the video? Is very important!
 
Horatio Parker said:
Will Wiley said:
One obvious conclusion is that the evidence does not support the initial allegations that the rebels did it.
Almost immediately after the plane came down both Ukraine and the USA accused the rebels. I was sitting in my office, morning time in Australia when on TV a now discredited and no longer mentioned "proof" was aired.This proof is no longer mentioned.
Writing a crime play (And showing SBU MH17 taps are frauds)
John Kerry himself was soon saying the same thing. This was before intelligence analysts would have had time to reach a solid conclusion. This conclusion it seems, once the analysts had time to analyse, did not match with the evidence. Which puts the intelligence analysts in a difficult position (again).
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Because some phone intercepts were dummied up, doesn't mean the Russians didn't shoot the plane down.

If credibility is the only standard, it still seems to me that the Dutch are least likely to be carrying someone else's water. If this were a high tension, possible war producing situation where the Dutch report could set things off, that would be one thing. But it's not. So why should they respond to US pressure, assuming it exists?
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What we need to know are the details of the agreement that was signed. Until we know the facts of that agreement we are all in the dark There was an Australian Freedom of Informayion request and a Dutch one, neither of which were successful. They are hiding something in thay agreement and that is suspicious
 
http://en.news-4-u.ru/almaz-antey-a...-distortion-data-in-the-report-on-boeing.html
In particular, as noted in «Diamond-antee», the area specified in the PRS report as the area of the missile launch, the South-East of Torez, which allegedly corresponds to calculations of the Russian concern, in fact, «is not designated as such» in any of the submitted documents. As explained in the company, the figure with the map given in the statement SC, denotes the estimated area of the launch by the International technical Commission. Taking the version as the source, the specialists of the concern, conducting the experiment with the explosion rocket MM the fuselage of the aircraft Il-86, «convincingly refuted»
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Horatio Parker said:
barbos said:
Just a report. They are misrepresenting Almaz-Antey report.
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Why should I believe Almaz-Antey's claims? Why the assumption that theirs is the better credibility?
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Dammit, dude, if you'd just watch a three hour YouTube video and reject any sources which contradict the official Kremlin version of events, you'd already have these answers.
 
Horatio Parker said:
It seems to me that the Dutch have the least interest in misrepresenting what happened to their citizens, therefore they have the most credibility. Attacking them as stooges of the US and NATO sounds like desperation.

Elsewhere on the internets, I see others saying the BUK was a Ukrainian BUK. That seems more fertile ground.

Just sayin'
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Yeah--it looks like it was a Ukrainian BUK that the "rebels" captured some weeks before the shoot-down.
 
barbos said:
Jayjay said:
That is a separate issue. And if you don't care about secondary fragmentation, why did you reply to a post about it? Sheesh.
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To tell you that I don't care about it and neither should you. Fact is, nobody here is qualified to judge it one way or another.
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Don't tell me, tell it to the other pro-Russian propagandists who make false claims about it.

barbos said:
I notice, you still have not explained what you think is wrong with page 146,
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I did, you simply conveniently missed it.
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Really. :rolleyes: What did I miss?

barbos said:
which accurately says that the Almaz-Antey simulation was based on NLR/TNO data.
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It does not say that at all.
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Are you fucking blind? I attached the page in question in one of my earlier replies. Here it is again:

mh17-page146.jpg

See Figure 65, right-hand side, blue text. "Calculated by JSC Concern Almaz-Antey using NLR/TNO data".
 
Will Wiley said:
Jayjay said:
Iiskola is a known paid shill for Russian propaganda. He has zero credibility. But even taking the argument at face value, it's false because Ukraine maybe part of the investigative committee but the committee also included Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia and Belgium. Ukraine isn't running the investigation and even if they were a suspect their ability to impact the investigation would be limited.
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No one knows what role Ukraine plays because the agreement they all signed is secret
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In other words, you don't know either. If Ukraine was secretly in charge of the investigation, you don't think any of the other countries in the committee would've blown the whistle on it?
 
barbos said:
http://en.news-4-u.ru/almaz-antey-a...-distortion-data-in-the-report-on-boeing.html
In particular, as noted in «Diamond-antee», the area specified in the PRS report as the area of the missile launch, the South-East of Torez, which allegedly corresponds to calculations of the Russian concern, in fact, «is not designated as such» in any of the submitted documents. As explained in the company, the figure with the map given in the statement SC, denotes the estimated area of the launch by the International technical Commission. Taking the version as the source, the specialists of the concern, conducting the experiment with the explosion rocket MM the fuselage of the aircraft Il-86, «convincingly refuted»
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Almaz Antey is the one misleading you. The caption of the picture doesn't state that the diamond-shaped area is calculated Almaz-Antey. Those would be the other, irregularly shaped areas in the same map.

Almaz-Antey and Russians are just pissed because their simulation was used to validate the similar results from Dutch and Ukrainian teams. If that had not happened, you and other pro-Russian stooges would be shouting at the rooftops how those simulations are biased and can't be trusted.
 
Jayjay said:
barbos said:
http://en.news-4-u.ru/almaz-antey-a...-distortion-data-in-the-report-on-boeing.html
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Almaz Antey is the one misleading you. The caption of the picture doesn't state that the diamond-shaped area is calculated Almaz-Antey. Those would be the other, irregularly shaped areas in the same map.

Almaz-Antey and Russians are just pissed because their simulation was used to validate the similar results from Dutch and Ukrainian teams. If that had not happened, you and other pro-Russian stooges would be shouting at the rooftops how those simulations are biased and can't be trusted.
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I don't need Alamaz-Antey to mislead me, I can read english myself.
Fucking dutch are misrepresenting Almaz-Antey. You are unbelievable.
 
barbos said:
Fucking dutch
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I know! Maybe Putin could send some soldiers there "on vacation," if you know what I mean. And some tanks. And missiles. Just...you know...to enjoy the Dutch countryside. Not to annex territory or anything...
 
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