RussiaGate

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Here is Columbus Nova on the Russian Renova website which I found in the Internet Archives since renova.ru is "under construction":
https://web.archive.org/web/20160109124539/http://www.renova.ru:80/en/structure/company/detail/130/

I'm still a little confused by this. Russian ReNova was created in 1990 by Russian oligarchs. Columbus Nova was created in 2000 by American oligarchs. Columbus Nova is on the Russian website for ReNova as one of its companies, whatever that means, I don't know. One would think its assets not who it uses for services because it is a client. In any case, then, many years later Columbus Nova creates an American ReNova called Renova U.S. Management, LLC which seems to be a silent entity no one can understand and no one talks about the owners.

ETA: SEC documents point to Cayman Islands and Bahamas. That's not suspicious at all.

According to the archived page, Renova is run by Andrew Intrater, who is the cousin and business partner of oligarch Viktor Vekselberg and has dual US/Russian citizenship. ...

Hold on. There are two entities under discussion. Renova.ru which was started in 1990 and Renova US which was started just a few years ago. Renova.ru is operated by Russians, including Vekselberg who is the CEO:
Viktor F. Vekselberg
Evgeny N. Olkhovik
Vladimir P. Kremer
Alexey V. Moskov
Alexander S. Zyurikov
Mikhail S Sivoldaev
Rinat S. Khalikov
Irina A. Matveeva
Igor V. Cheremikin
Andrey A. Shtorkh
Mikhail V. Lifshits
Yakov S. Tesis

Renova US is owned by some shady people through Cayman Islands and Bahamas but Columbus Nova started it up:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1313918/000120919114000005/0001209191-14-000005.txt

Columbus Nova is operated and owned by Andrew Intrater who you mentioned is the cousin of Vekselberg.

 

[Copernicus]

Here is Columbus Nova on the Russian Renova website which I found in the Internet Archives since renova.ru is "under construction":
https://web.archive.org/web/20160109124539/http://www.renova.ru:80/en/structure/company/detail/130/

I'm still a little confused by this. Russian ReNova was created in 1990 by Russian oligarchs. Columbus Nova was created in 2000 by American oligarchs. Columbus Nova is on the Russian website for ReNova as one of its companies, whatever that means, I don't know. One would think its assets not who it uses for services because it is a client. In any case, then, many years later Columbus Nova creates an American ReNova called Renova U.S. Management, LLC which seems to be a silent entity no one can understand and no one talks about the owners.

ETA: SEC documents point to Cayman Islands and Bahamas. That's not suspicious at all.

According to the archived page, Renova is run by Andrew Intrater, who is the cousin and business partner of oligarch Viktor Vekselberg and has dual US/Russian citizenship. ...

Hold on. There are two entities under discussion. Renova.ru which was started in 1990 and Renova US which was started just a few years ago. Renova.ru is operated by Russians, including Vekselberg who is the CEO:
Viktor F. Vekselberg
Evgeny N. Olkhovik
Vladimir P. Kremer
Alexey V. Moskov
Alexander S. Zyurikov
Mikhail S Sivoldaev
Rinat S. Khalikov
Irina A. Matveeva
Igor V. Cheremikin
Andrey A. Shtorkh
Mikhail V. Lifshits
Yakov S. Tesis

Renova US is owned by some shady people through Cayman Islands and Bahamas but Columbus Nova started it up:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1313918/000120919114000005/0001209191-14-000005.txt

Columbus Nova is operated and owned by Andrew Intrater who you mentioned is the cousin of Vekselberg.

Right. The Renova Group of Companies is what you actually want to search on. But don't look under renova.ru, which is "under construction". Look under https://madeinrussia.ru/en/ for the main website now. Apparently, "Made in Russia" is its legal branding within Russia. The Renova Group is chaired by Vekselberg, who some say is the richest oligarch in Russia. (He likely is not richer than Putin or Medvedev.) The company itself has a different person for CEO and other executive positions. Historically, Vekselberg was a protege of Medvedev, whom Putin just had reappointed as PM of the Duma. It may be Medvedev's patronage that gave Vekselberg his insider status with Putin.

Columbus Nova is not mentioned anywhere on Renova's "Made in Russia" website, but that is likely to obscure its association with Vekselberg and Russia. I don't know how Intrater came by his citizenship status, but American citizenship obviously gives him a lot of freedom to set up businesses and deals in the US. He can funnel money to Trump's various cronies and businesses and to other politicians without triggering any alarms as a foreign investor or donor.

 

[barbos]

Cohen was selling his access to Trump to anybody willing to pay. Renova is not the only one paid him. Oh, I forgot, these are american oligarchs, it's different. sorry.

Fact is, Israel and Saudi Arabia have been doing (with great success) it for much of their recorded history and nobody is complaining. Why are you surprised that Russia tried this strategy too? They did not invent it, as they did not invent idea of Russia Today and other propaganda media companies.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Cohen was selling his access to Trump to anybody willing to pay. Renova is not the only one paid him. Oh, I forgot, these are american oligarchs, it's different. sorry.

Fact is, Israel and Saudi Arabia have been doing (with great success) it for much of their recorded history and nobody is complaining. Why are you surprised that Russia tried this strategy too? They did not invent it, as they did not invent idea of Russia Today and other propaganda media companies.

Yes, there are additional crimes being committed by non-Russians as well and those are also serious and need to be looked into (so, it's good that this is being done and isn't actually some kind of different thing which is in any way being overlooked). That doesn't change any of the facts about the Russian connections, though.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Barbos has been programmed in the use of “whataboutism.” It’s a tiresome and pointless tactic that only serves to affirm the crime it is intended to redirect.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Barbos has been programmed in the use of “whataboutism.” It’s a tiresome and pointless tactic that only serves to affirm the crime it is intended to redirect.

That's unfair. He doesn't choose which talking points to post about each day and is just doing his job.

 

[barbos]

Cohen was selling his access to Trump to anybody willing to pay. Renova is not the only one paid him. Oh, I forgot, these are american oligarchs, it's different. sorry.

Fact is, Israel and Saudi Arabia have been doing (with great success) it for much of their recorded history and nobody is complaining. Why are you surprised that Russia tried this strategy too? They did not invent it, as they did not invent idea of Russia Today and other propaganda media companies.

Yes, there are additional crimes being committed by non-Russians as well and those are also serious and need to be looked into (so, it's good that this is being done and isn't actually some kind of different thing which is in any way being overlooked). That doesn't change any of the facts about the Russian connections, though.

Cohen was caught. But how many others like him have not been caught?
And the only reason Cohen (and Manafort, and the rest of the gang) was caught is because of Russia investigation. Without it he would still be happy and rich camper and a bunch of lawyers from these US companies would still be paying him for access to Trump. These people are not dumb, they know their chances and the mere fact that they are doing it is because chances of getting caught are low.

 

[barbos]

Barbos has been programmed in the use of “whataboutism.” It’s a tiresome and pointless tactic that only serves to affirm the crime it is intended to redirect.

You are back to your bullshitism. This is what is really tiresome.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Barbos has been programmed in the use of “whataboutism.” It’s a tiresome and pointless tactic that only serves to affirm the crime it is intended to redirect.

You are back to your bullshitism. This is what is really tiresome.

Simple enough. Stop with the tu quoque. It just affirms the argument. You may now and forever except the fact that other people in the world do bad things. You now need never mention the fact that other people do bad things again. It is agreed by all parties that other people doing bad things in no way, shape or form bears any relevance to the fact that specific individuals we are discussing are doing bad things.

There, now you can rest from being so tired.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You may now and forever except the fact that other people in the world do bad things. You now need never mention the fact that other people do bad things again.

But that's one of his goto arguments. America has done bad things, so they cannot complain when bad things are done by anyone else. We deserve the election tampering done by Russians.
This is alternated with 'Russians did nothing wrong' as a simultaneous argument of dubious consistency.

This position evolved from 'Russians did nothing,' as that position became untenable. Now he needs the constant frame of bad people being bad to let Russian crimes appear to be normalized, thusfore not 'bad' things, just 'things everyone does.'

Without harping on American historical crimes, what could he do to affirm Russian innocence (through inaction or through not being any less innocent than the other bad actors)?

 

[barbos]

Barbos has been programmed in the use of “whataboutism.” It’s a tiresome and pointless tactic that only serves to affirm the crime it is intended to redirect.

You are back to your bullshitism. This is what is really tiresome.

Simple enough. Stop with the tu quoque. It just affirms the argument. You may now and forever except the fact that other people in the world do bad things. You now need never mention the fact that other people do bad things again. It is agreed by all parties that other people doing bad things in no way, shape or form bears any relevance to the fact that specific individuals we are discussing are doing bad things.

There, now you can rest from being so tired.

I get it, you like your stupid fallacy game. You can stop now.

 

[barbos]

You may now and forever except the fact that other people in the world do bad things. You now need never mention the fact that other people do bad things again.

But that's one of his goto arguments.

You too can stop now. It was not an argument, just an observation. But if you like an argument, then what exactly Renova did that was bad?
The guy was selling access to Trump, and the fact that Renova bought it proves that Putin did not have it in the first place.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

and the fact that Renova bought it proves that Putin did not have it in the first place.

No, it really doesn't do that.

 

[barbos]

This position evolved from 'Russians did nothing,' as that position became untenable. Now he needs the constant frame of bad people being bad to let Russian crimes appear to be normalized, thusfore not 'bad' things, just 'things everyone does.'

No, it did not evolve at all. I asked for evidence and still got nothing with regards of russian hacking. I never denied existence of Russian intelligence agencies and their attempts to get access to US government, that's really their job.

Without harping on American historical crimes, what could he do to affirm Russian innocence (through inaction or through not being any less innocent than the other bad actors)?

So, Cohen is a history now? And again, your stupid fallacies do not apply here. You need to invent a new one which applies and describes what really happened which is Russia trying to copy US and you are not being happy about it after the fact.

 

[barbos]

and the fact that Renova bought it proves that Putin did not have it in the first place.

No, it really doesn't do that.

How so? You forgot that Putin has access to Trump using Alpha Bank DNS server? He does not need no stinking Cohen, he can just go and email Trump in secret.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You forgot that Putin has access to Trump using Alpha Bank DNS server?

why would renova.ru use alfa bank, is it because they are all part of consortium alfa-access-renova?

 

[Keith&Co.]

and the fact that Renova bought it proves that Putin did not have it in the first place.

No, it really doesn't do that.

Kind of a creationist-apologist approach to evidence, what?
EVERYTHING leads to Goddidit (or away from Putindidit). No matter what, stick to the necessary conclusion.

 

[barbos]

You forgot that Putin has access to Trump using Alpha Bank DNS server?

why would renova.ru use alfa bank, is it because they are all part of consortium alfa-access-renova?

Who cares about Renova? According to your theory Renova did that on behalf of Putin and Putin has access to Trump already. He can call Trump and issue orders without stupid Cohen and even Renova.

- - - Updated - - -

and the fact that Renova bought it proves that Putin did not have it in the first place.

No, it really doesn't do that.

Kind of a creationist-apologist approach to evidence, what?
EVERYTHING leads to Goddidit (or away from Putindidit). No matter what, stick to the necessary conclusion.

My irony meter is melting.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

According to your theory Renova did that on behalf of Putin and Putin has access to Trump already.

American and Russian oligarchs used different means and different access points to get to Twitler campaign. So just because AT&T, Novartis and Renova.ru used Cohen, it doesn't mean Putin didn't have a direct line. And it doesn't mean Alfa Bank wasn't trying to set something up with Trump or that Papadopolous wasn't trying to meet with spies.

It's like how Renova.us is owned by one company in Bahamas and two in Cayman Islands. One in the Cayman Islands might funnel money through Greece first, but the other company in Cayman Islands might funnel money through a Swiss Bank Account first. Just because they funnel money differently, doesn't mean the other one isn't also funneling.

 

[barbos]

According to your theory Renova did that on behalf of Putin and Putin has access to Trump already.

American and Russian oligarchs used different means and different access points to get to Twitler campaign. So just because AT&T, Novartis and Renova.ru used Cohen, it doesn't mean Putin didn't have a direct line. And it doesn't mean Alfa Bank wasn't trying to set something up with Trump or that Papadopolous wasn't trying to meet with spies.

It's like how Renova.us is owned by one company in Bahamas and two in Cayman Islands. One in the Cayman Islands might funnel money through Greece first, but the other company in Cayman Islands might funnel money through a Swiss Bank Account first. Just because they funnel money differently, doesn't mean the other one isn't also funneling.

That's not the theory. The theory is that all russian oligarchs serve Putin. They are not trying to gain access to Trump for themselves, they are doing it for the Country, I mean Putin

And I feel the need to tell you that I used alpha bank DNS theory sarcastically because it was thoroughly debunked. Well, not completely thoroughly because people who put it forward have not been investigated for apparent criminal bullshitting.