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RussiaGate

I doubt every fact. If you want to make a claim, you'll have to provide evidence for the claim.

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It is important to note that barbos is working from the position that Putin has articulated since his narrow (some say fraudulent) election victory in 2012. He has always maintained that the US State Department, which was run by Hillary Clinton at the time, "funded" his opposition. In English, however, "funded" implies full financial support rather than just paying into a fund for some NGOs that promoted democracy--a linguistic distinction that is probably lost on barbos. Why is this an important point for Putin? Well, he had gone through a year of very tough public protests, and he needs a narrative to explain why he didn't win by a huge margin. See Sputnik's Putin: US Always Interfered in Russian Elections. Putin considered the NGOs that received some support from the US to be part of his political opposition, since they promote democratic principles such as fair elections.

Of course, the Russian government is allowed to fund nonpartisan NGOs in the US, and its Sputnik news outlet is allowed to publish Russia's positions in the US, even though the US Voice of America is blocked in Russia. Russian officials can attend political rallies in the US, and they even attended official Republican Party events during our 2016 campaign. However, foreigners are prohibited from actually giving material aid to US political parties or engaging in campaign strategy activities. Unlike Russia, the US has never attempted to flood Russia with fake news stories or hacked emails that were intended to change the outcome of an election.

See the Washington Post article Did the United States interfere in Russian elections?

Here you go again with your ridiculous theories. I did not know that 63% of votes constituted a narrow margin and needed an explanation on the part of Putin. If that's the case then surely Hillary needs an explanation too for her narrow defeat? right? And russian government hackers come very handy at that, right?
The fact is, Putin and Hillary hate each other. I don't know what started it, but that's irrelevant. State Department has been trying to undermine Putin and hence Russia as whole for the most of his tenure, even during Bush who had decent relation with Putin.
So there were two aspects here, neocons who hate Russia and Hillary (neocon as well) extra hates Putin.

You never provided proof of your conspiracy theory, while he backed up his claims with evidence.
I don't see him providing any evidence. As for me, I remember starting a thread about how one of the member of the opposition was dropping (privately) the Clinton's name. It's way more evidence than Mueller have on Trump&Co
Arguing about what constitutes a "narrow" victory isn't going to change any of that, and I'm not sure why you thought it would.
I know, you honestly believe your shit. Does not make it reality though.
 
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It is important to note that barbos is working from the position that Putin has articulated since his narrow (some say fraudulent) election victory in 2012. He has always maintained that the US State Department, which was run by Hillary Clinton at the time, "funded" his opposition. In English, however, "funded" implies full financial support rather than just paying into a fund for some NGOs that promoted democracy--a linguistic distinction that is probably lost on barbos. Why is this an important point for Putin? Well, he had gone through a year of very tough public protests, and he needs a narrative to explain why he didn't win by a huge margin. See Sputnik's Putin: US Always Interfered in Russian Elections. Putin considered the NGOs that received some support from the US to be part of his political opposition, since they promote democratic principles such as fair elections.

Of course, the Russian government is allowed to fund nonpartisan NGOs in the US, and its Sputnik news outlet is allowed to publish Russia's positions in the US, even though the US Voice of America is blocked in Russia. Russian officials can attend political rallies in the US, and they even attended official Republican Party events during our 2016 campaign. However, foreigners are prohibited from actually giving material aid to US political parties or engaging in campaign strategy activities. Unlike Russia, the US has never attempted to flood Russia with fake news stories or hacked emails that were intended to change the outcome of an election.

See the Washington Post article Did the United States interfere in Russian elections?

Here you go again with your ridiculous theories. I did not know that 63% of votes constituted a narrow margin and needed an explanation on the part of Putin. If that's the case then surely Hillary needs an explanation too for her narrow defeat? right? And russian government hackers come very handy at that, right?
Well, you are right that the official vote count was not narrow, but there were two major problems with that argument. The first was that most of his competitors were simply kept off the ballot on technicalities over qualifying petitions, so that voters did not really have any genuine alternative. The second was that about a third of the voting precincts reported irregularities, particularly so-called  carousel voting (карусели), a very popular vote-rigging method in Russia. (Carousel voting was also used to help get Yanukovych elected in Ukraine.) Putin is likely correct that he would have won anyway, since that was a foregone conclusion brought about by eliminating viable ballot competitors. It is no wonder that the Communist Party (his only remaining serious competitor) refused to accept the results of the election, and tens of thousands gathered in a protest rally on the Arbat several days after his election victory.

The fact is, Putin and Hillary hate each other. I don't know what started it, but that's irrelevant. State Department has been trying to undermine Putin and hence Russia as whole for the most of his tenure, even during Bush who had decent relation with Putin.
So there were two aspects here, neocons who hate Russia and Hillary (neocon as well) extra hates Putin.

That is not a "fact" but just a weak supposition on your part. Both Putin and Clinton are seasoned politicians, but Putin found it useful to scapegoat her for his embarrassing troubles and publicly exposed election manipulation. I have no reason to believe that she held anything like the kind of grudge against him that he held against her. In fact, his grudge is probably more related to the economic sanctions for Russia's invasion of Ukraine rather than US criticism of his election. US foreign policy under Obama did promote democratic reforms in former Communist countries, but there was nothing new or personal in that. Russia has been no less critical of the US, and, as I have already pointed out, it is free to contribute to NGOs and to promote its point of view in the US media. There is no reciprocity towards US behavior in Russia. I think that you are very well aware of this.
 
Well, you are right that the official vote count was not narrow, but there were two major problems with that argument. The first was that most of his competitors were simply kept off the ballot on technicalities over qualifying petitions, so that voters did not really have any genuine alternative. The second was that about a third of the voting precincts reported irregularities, particularly so-called  carousel voting (карусели), a very popular vote-rigging method in Russia. (Carousel voting was also used to help get Yanukovych elected in Ukraine.) Putin is likely correct that he would have won anyway, since that was a foregone conclusion brought about by eliminating viable ballot competitors. It is no wonder that the Communist Party (his only remaining serious competitor) refused to accept the results of the election, and tens of thousands gathered in a protest rally on the Arbat several days after his election victory
I think Carousel voting is an invented excuse of the losers (West). Arbat is not not whole country. It's a known fact that Moscow is against Putin.
The fact is, Putin and Hillary hate each other. I don't know what started it, but that's irrelevant. State Department has been trying to undermine Putin and hence Russia as whole for the most of his tenure, even during Bush who had decent relation with Putin.
So there were two aspects here, neocons who hate Russia and Hillary (neocon as well) extra hates Putin.

That is not a "fact" but just a weak supposition on your part. Both Putin and Clinton are seasoned politicians, but Putin found it useful to scapegoat her for his embarrassing troubles and publicly exposed election manipulation.
You and your suppositions against my facts. Yes, Putin hates Clinton for her baseless criticism and support of opposition.
I have no reason to believe that she held anything like the kind of grudge against him that he held against her. In fact, his grudge is probably more related to the economic sanctions for Russia's invasion of Ukraine rather than US criticism of his election.
It started long before that. Russia warned US against meddling in Ukraine/Georgia in spring of 2008, before Georgian war.
US foreign policy under Obama did promote democratic reforms in former Communist countries,
How is that consistent with Obama's famous "russian economy in tatters" speech?
but there was nothing new or personal in that.
Yes, It's a standard and meaningless propaganda.
Russia has been no less critical of the US, and, as I have already pointed out, it is free to contribute to NGOs and to promote its point of view in the US media. There is no reciprocity towards US behavior in Russia. I think that you are very well aware of this.
I understand in Russia you can still pay opposition but the government demands disclosure, same as in US. The mere fact of of being labeled as recipients of western money puts you at serious electoral disadvantage.
 
There was extensive reporting, including video evidence, on carousel voting in Moscow and St. Petersburg. You don't have to believe what you don't want to believe, but Putin knew that he was unpopular in heavily populated areas. Here is just one BBC report from that period: Russian elections: Hunting the 'carousel' voters.
Can you verify these reports are 100% or even 10% accurate? In some cases people on the buses were workers from plants with working schedules which makes voting difficult. And even if these reports are true, scale of the fraud is limited, my understanding is that local authorities (not Putin directly) are behind all that. And again amount of fraud is most likely limited. Popularity of different parties and Putin himself is measured by a number of independent polling agencies and is consistent with election results. So fraud is limited.
 
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Attacking? Really?

Yes, really.

Stand by for the fallacy where he uses two different definitions of the same word in the same sentence to support a position ("just a theory", as an example of that fallacy).

Did he use a knife or a gun to attack you? neither? Therefore no attack... Legal definition of assault is... blah blah blah...

watch for it in 3....2.....1.....
 
Attacking? Really?

Yes, really.

Stand by for the fallacy where he uses two different definitions of the same word in the same sentence to support a position ("just a theory", as an example of that fallacy).

Did he use a knife or a gun to attack you? neither? Therefore no attack... Legal definition of assault is... blah blah blah...

watch for it in 3....2.....1.....

Russia needs better apologists... wonder if they'd offer me a job.
 

This bit was particularly funny:

Mr. Trump’s new lawyer in the investigation and his longtime confidant, Rudolph W. Giuliani, met with Mr. Mueller last week and said he was trying to determine whether the special counsel and his staff were going to be “truly objective.”

Giuliani—with Trump’s cock up his ass—trying to determine whether or not Mueller is going to be “truly objective.” :rotfl:

So Giuliani’s entire strategy will be to try and paint Mueller’s staff as being partisan (since he can’t touch Mueller). That’s it.

Hey, poster, you should apply for a job on Giuliani’s staff. All they can manage is ad hominem too.
 
Which were leaked, no doubt by someone in the administration.
The general consensus is that Mueller had them leaked. These haven't been given to the Trump Admin yet.
What I see being said is that these aren't actually Mueller's questions. They're not in 'lawyerese,' for one thing.
They ARE written as if cribbed from Trump's lawyers' notes of the discussion with Mueller. These are the 'sort' of questions he seems to want to ask.
 
These are the questions written down by Trump's lead lawyer based on a meeting with Mueller, not something Mueller's team had. After taking this meeting, that lawyer immediately resigned. Given that some of the questions were regarding anyone approaching Flynn and offering him a pardon in exchange for his silence (ie - obstruction of justice), it may be that he resigned because he realized that there was a massive conflict of interest with his being both Trump's attorney and co-defendant.
 
My understanding is that the questions were concocted by Jay Sekulow, not John Dowd, who is no longer Trump's lead attorney. Trump's side leaked them for its own purposes--probably in a scheme to give Trump cover for refusing to answer Mueller's questions. Trump could easily take the Fifth, and nobody would bat an eye. However, he needs some excuse to dangle in front of supporters. At this point, his legal team can supply Mueller with answers to their own questions and claim that Trump has nothing more to add. Then Trump can clam up--in theory. Whether or not Trump can control his Twitter thumbs is another matter.

In other Russiagate-related news, Donald Trump's administration is finding new ways to undermine Mueller's investigation: Ukraine, Seeking U.S. Missiles, Halted Cooperation With Mueller Investigation.
 
Isn't Sekulow the one who left? I've lost track of the revolving door. I might stream some earlier episodes on Netflix to remind myself of who the various characters are.
 
Isn't Sekulow the one who left? I've lost track of the revolving door. I might stream some earlier episodes on Netflix to remind myself of who the various characters are.
Sekulow is the TV face lawyer, he is still there. Sekulow is big in the fight against tyranny against the poor Christian majority in America. If there is a tree on Public Right-Of-Way that is being denied Xmas lights, he'll be there. That the Christian Right has adopted Trump is one of the more bizarre and morally bankrupt things done in the past several decades.
 
This is Sekulow, with the glasses.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b5CjvqcoFg[/YOUTUBE]
 
Isn't Sekulow the one who left? I've lost track of the revolving door. I might stream some earlier episodes on Netflix to remind myself of who the various characters are.
Sekulow is the TV face lawyer, he is still there. Sekulow is big in the fight against tyranny against the poor Christian majority in America. If there is a tree on Public Right-Of-Way that is being denied Xmas lights, he'll be there. That the Christian Right has adopted Trump is one of the more bizarre and morally bankrupt things done in the past several decades.

Meh. Tomas De Torquemada is laughing at you. These white nationalist lynch-happy misanthropes are total lightweights.
 
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