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RussiaGate

 
 
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
Copernicus said:
I agree that it is also rampant in the US and that most Americans fail to recognize blatant bribery--e.g. campaign contributions by rich donors and businesses--as equivalent to less subtle forms of it.
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The problem, of course, is in demonstrating that someone who has taken a campaign contribution or donation has actually in turn changed their vote or otherwise acted in a manner inconsistent with their own political ideology.

I have used this example many times, but it's perfectly appropriate as there were many such insinuations lobbed at Hillary Clinton regarding what is actually just a normal industry (i.e., being paid for giving a speech).

Obama's top donor (in the aggregate) was Goldman Sachs in 2008. Something on the order of a total of $1 million. He then famously shat on them (and the rest of the finance world) and Goldman Sachs shifted to backing Romney as a result. We all know how well that worked out for them.

The point being that it's not a bribe per se until the person receiving it does something expressly for the payee that the receiver would not have normally done and/or would be against their stated political policies/beliefs/tenets, etc. Parsing that is where the problem lies, which is why it' such easy, low-hanging fruit for Republicans to use against any Democrat, when the irony is, it is almost always a bribe when it comes to Republicans and rarely when it comes to Democrats.

Probably because Republicans are generally sociopaths who have no moral compass, so doing whatever anyone pays them to do is just par for their course. And if you have no moral compass to begin with, then pretty much ANY "contribution" is a bribe just axiomatically.
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Yeah. Nothing to see here.

:rolleyes:
 
https://www.salon.com/2018/12/13/ho...-we-are-going-to-take-an-mri-to-his-finances/

House Democrat confirms Donald Trump’s worst fear: “We are going to take an MRI to his finances”

While President Donald Trump has put on a good front when it comes to the threat of possible impeachment, a new report reveals that privately he is very nervous — and some members of the incoming Democratic House majority say he has every reason to be.

"We’re going take an MRI to his finances," Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., said of the president.
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[conservolibertarian]This blatant persecution of the president is simply unacceptable! We don't need an investigation to find out if Trump did anything wrong, because FOX News already told me what to think about that! The libtards do this because they hate the constitution. The constitution clearly states that the legislature should only act as part of a system of checks and balances when a non-Republican is in the White House, but as usual, libtards hate the constitution as much as they hate America, which is why they are all being disloyal to Mother Russia (praise Mother Russia) right now!

This is fascism! [/conservolibertarian]
 
https://www.salon.com/2018/12/12/ma...-russia-nra-conduit-as-campaign-funds-flowed/

Maria Butina’s boyfriend claimed he set up Trump-Russia NRA “conduit” as campaign funds flowed
Republican operative Paul Erickson claimed in an email he’d set up a private Russia-GOP channel through the NRA
Admitted Russian spy Maria Butina’s Republican operative boyfriend wrote in private communications that he was involved in setting up a “very private line of communication” between Russia and the Trump campaign using the National Rifle Association as a “conduit.”
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Gosh, it's almost as if the Trump campaign was working with a hostile foreign power to change the outcome of an election.

Also, is anyone surprised that the NRA[ent]mdash[/ent]an organization that works hard to get as many Americans killed as possible[ent]mdash[/ent]turned out to be taking money from a hostile foreign power? I mean, what are the odds that a politically-connected organization dedicated to killing Americans would have goals that aligned with a hostile foreign power? It's hard to believe that such a thing is even possible, isn't it?
 
Do the people that were lied to to support Trump care that they were lied to?

No Russkie could have ever convinced me to vote for him.
 
untermensche said:
Do the people that were lied to to support Trump care that they were lied to?
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That's a real good question. I still have a hard time believing that anyone could watch that buffoon for more than thirty seconds and not know right away that he's a scumbag. That difficulty steers me toward the belief that many or most of them don't know that they're being lied to, IOW they haven't paid thirty seconds of attention; their attention leaves off right after "he appoints conservative judges". There are surely some who know damn well he's a scumbag, and rationalize it thus: "He's a scumbag, but they're ALL scumbags and he's OUR scumbag."
That's going to make it a long road to the point where Republican Senators feel like they have the choice to reject him. The Dems will need countless hours of public testimony in order to convince any significant number of trumpsuckers that he's not a scumbag on the order of all the rest of the scumbags, but rather such a scumbag that he's an outlier - a scumbag among scumbags. Only at the time when Trump's approval among Republitards dips to around 50% will there be enough red districts where support of Trump is a liability that is fatal to re-election chances, will the House vote to impeach. They need to know with a high degree of certainty that there will be a 2/3 majority in the Senate who will vote to convict.
 
So often when discussing Trump with a supporter, it isn't long before they're bringing up how much they hate Hillary Clinton, even today. I wonder if it's difficult for them to evaluate Trump in isolation, but only in comparison with some Other.

I also expect it's difficult to drop support because it is an admission that one was wrong. That's bound to cause dissonance, so the only solution can seem to be dig in one's heels and remain firm.
 
James Brown said:
So often when discussing Trump with a supporter, it isn't long before they're bringing up how much they hate Hillary Clinton, even today. I wonder if it's difficult for them to evaluate Trump in isolation, but only in comparison with some Other.

I also expect it's difficult to drop support because it is an admission that one was wrong. That's bound to cause dissonance, so the only solution can seem to be dig in one's heels and remain firm.
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It seems to be similar to how they approach sports teams (and life in general). They simply decided that they're "Cowboys" fans (or whatever) and no matter how badly they do and how often they lose, by god, they will stick with them! It's the same reason they dutifully vote against their own best interests; send their kids off to either die or become murderers for the State; accept terrible working conditions and worship their superiors; etc., etc. They're beta dogs. Whatever the pack wants--whatever the alpha leaders say--they blindly follow.

Hell, it's not even an insult to them. They gladly and willingly consider themselves sheep with Jesus as their shepherd. So disheartening.
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
James Brown said:
So often when discussing Trump with a supporter, it isn't long before they're bringing up how much they hate Hillary Clinton, even today. I wonder if it's difficult for them to evaluate Trump in isolation, but only in comparison with some Other.

I also expect it's difficult to drop support because it is an admission that one was wrong. That's bound to cause dissonance, so the only solution can seem to be dig in one's heels and remain firm.
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It seems to be similar to how they approach sports teams (and life in general). They simply decided that they're "Cowboys" fans (or whatever) and no matter how badly they do and how often they lose, by god, they will stick with them! It's the same reason they dutifully vote against their own best interests; send their kids off to either die or become murderers for the State; accept terrible working conditions and worship their superiors; etc., etc. They're beta dogs. Whatever the pack wants--whatever the alpha leaders say--they blindly follow.

Hell, it's not even an insult to them. They gladly and willingly consider themselves sheep with Jesus as their shepherd. So disheartening.
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It is one thing to support a sports team. It is another to blame every loss on conspiracies.
 
Elixir said:
untermensche said:
Do the people that were lied to to support Trump care that they were lied to?
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That's a real good question. I still have a hard time believing that anyone could watch that buffoon for more than thirty seconds and not know right away that he's a scumbag. That difficulty steers me toward the belief that many or most of them don't know that they're being lied to, IOW they haven't paid thirty seconds of attention; their attention leaves off right after "he appoints conservative judges". There are surely some who know damn well he's a scumbag, and rationalize it thus: "He's a scumbag, but they're ALL scumbags and he's OUR scumbag."
That's going to make it a long road to the point where Republican Senators feel like they have the choice to reject him. The Dems will need countless hours of public testimony in order to convince any significant number of trumpsuckers that he's not a scumbag on the order of all the rest of the scumbags, but rather such a scumbag that he's an outlier - a scumbag among scumbags. Only at the time when Trump's approval among Republitards dips to around 50% will there be enough red districts where support of Trump is a liability that is fatal to re-election chances, will the House vote to impeach. They need to know with a high degree of certainty that there will be a 2/3 majority in the Senate who will vote to convict.
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A fair number of Trump cultists listen daily to Lush Limpbrain bloviating, and then Sean Insanity. They get hours of deflection, clownsplaining, lies and rationalization. They gobble it all down and don't have a clue.
 
starwater said:
the double secret handshake grand jury subpoena that was argued 4 days ago is now going forward, the judge ruled that the unknown company must comply with the subpoena - which is suspected that it is related to the Russia investigation.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/politics/mueller-mystery-grand-jury-appeal/index.html
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Both sides are exactly as bad because, uh, Benghazi! Benghazi! Why isn't Killary in jail for that? She is a threat to the rule of law! Don't you libtards care about the rule of law? [/Conservolibertarian]
 
blastula said:
no puppet.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOcfIfrTOnU[/YOUTUBE]
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Part about Montenegro is true, it was an active topic of discussion or propaganda if you like at the time.
Part about Poland invading Belarus was not. If anything it was other way around during these combined training exercises.
the next part is here.
Trump parrots Russian revisionism on Soviet Afghanistan invasion
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That's new to me too, but googling confirms that it did happen (not exactly the way Maddow described though). Parliament members/politicians in Russia are often engaged in such meaningless ativities These BS ideas are not intended to be anything other than a tool for keeping themselves mentioned. In any case, I don't remember US Congress voting on Vietnam War being wrong.

As for the Trump, it's not really that weird. He always tries to contradict people he does not like. And he does not like people who does not like him. He has a brain of a 5 year old.
 
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barbos said:
He has a brain of a 5 year old.
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The point Maddow was making is that, no 5 year old could have known what Putin's intent was. Which necessarily means that he was told--by Putin (or whoever is handling Trump on Putin's behalf)--to push Putin's agenda.

Iow, it is just more evidence that Trump is Putin's "asset."
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
barbos said:
He has a brain of a 5 year old.
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The point Maddow was making is that, no 5 year old could have known what Putin's intent was. Which necessarily means that he was told--by Putin (or whoever is handling Trump on Putin's behalf)--to push Putin's agenda.

Iow, it is just more evidence that Trump is Putin's "asset."
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Probably passed the info by Putin at the G20.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Koyaanisqatsi said:
barbos said:
He has a brain of a 5 year old.
Click to expand...

The point Maddow was making is that, no 5 year old could have known what Putin's intent was. Which necessarily means that he was told--by Putin (or whoever is handling Trump on Putin's behalf)--to push Putin's agenda.

Iow, it is just more evidence that Trump is Putin's "asset."
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Probably passed the info by Putin at the G20.
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Or on one of "regular" phone calls he has with Pootey - according to Pootey (who can be trusted far more than Cheato).
 
TV and credit cards said:
Koyaanisqatsi said:
barbos said:
He has a brain of a 5 year old.
Click to expand...

The point Maddow was making is that, no 5 year old could have known what Putin's intent was. Which necessarily means that he was told--by Putin (or whoever is handling Trump on Putin's behalf)--to push Putin's agenda.

Iow, it is just more evidence that Trump is Putin's "asset."
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Probably passed the info by Putin at the G20.
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Yeah, I can see clearly how Putin coaches his "asset" during secret meeting in Argentina in order to make him look stupid.
With all due respect to Maddow, she is known for her tendency to see Russia/Putin everywhere.

In this case she does ask a fair question, "How did it get into Trump's skull" and gives her usual "Russia did it!"
What she forgot to consider is that Trump IS a president and is or rather was subjected to briefings from different US spy agencies which tried to feed him real/private info. And what he blurted is very close to what CIA/NSA/etc really think in my educated opinion

Montenegro is, in fact, run by gangsters (literally) who choose it to be convenient to be a US puppets.
Current Poland government is very right wing and Belarus and Western Ukraine (quite recently) both were part of Great Poland in the past. Now polish right wing does float the idea that Western Ukraine should belong to Poland and I can totally see how that would be a part of crash course of world affairs for a new POTUS. I mean you really think agencies watch CNN to get their ideas?

About soviet invasion to Afganistan, again this is how US agencies would privately analyze it. These Duma proceedings have nothing to do with anything and very recent anyway (November/December last year)


By the way, this reminded me Obama right after Crimea "annexation" by Russia. He appeared not prepared for this turn of events and kinda half-blurted what he or rather US agencies really think. Later he switched to more "refined" "Russia is bad!" opinion
 
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