RussiaGate

[barbos]

You're like Trump who denies he said something when we have it on tape.

No, I have all the tapes. Ask random person in US "What is Nord Stream 2?" and then ask about Meghan Markle.

 

[barbos]

You keep bringing up your stupid linguistic derails.
This thread is about RussiaGate. And the latest round started with my remark about how Media talking heads fail to mention that certain russian agent is actually ukrainian.

For someone who's so hung up on linguistics, I'm surprised you don't know that in the US, being a nation agent doesn't mean you are a national of that nation. Paul Manafort was convicted of the crime of being an unregistered agent of Ukraine. He is not a Ukrainian.

There is no need to tell that Manafort is an american, everybody knows who he is.
In case of a "russian" agent we have a "lie by omission".
The same shit happened with Clinton email server hacking , where US Media failed to mention that their source was a known liar who had financial ties to Clinton herself.

 

[barbos]

A remark that was shown to be wrong in this post:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?10591-RussiaGate&p=885270&viewfull=1#post885270

It absolutely was not shown to be incorrect as I have shown in my comments to the post you linked.

Alright then, what do you think it shows that the remark you made which started this side discussion was incorrect?

why do I have to repeat everything twice? It shows ridiculousness of your theory in which russuian agents walk free in Ukraine.

Yes, these dumb-asses switched to english. Georgians there understood english, and one ukrainian (the speaker) spoke it well too, but the rest of ukrainians did not. One would ask why all georgians and only one ukrainian speak english? I know you don't know why so I will tell you why. Because all of the georgian government consisted/consists of US "educated" georgians - lawyers and business degrees from US universities. Same with the ukrainian speaker.
The rest did not speak any english. The next question, why would pretty much everyone in georgian government have US degrees? The answer - because Georgia is US's puppet regime. Same with Ukraine now.
It has nothing to do with linguistics.

You're welcome.

That was a bit premature, but thank you for displaying your entrenched ignorance on yet another topic over the last several pages.

Please do tell me how it is me who is ignorant here?

 

[ZiprHead]

He worked in Russian media. He recognizes the same tactics at Fox News.

In a newly released report, U.S. intelligence agencies outline how Russia yet again sought to subvert American democracy. The findings confirm that the Kremlin tried to plant damaging disinformation about Joe Biden among associates of then-President Donald Trump.

That report and others that preceded it are important, because the foreign threat to American democracy is real and growing. But they should not distract us from a disturbing reality: The most serious danger to the United States from the Russian propaganda playbook doesn’t come from Moscow. It comes from Manhattan, where Fox News prime-time hosts broadcast conspiracy theories and disinformation while mimicking tactics that insiders in Russian media easily recognize.

One person who finds the United States’ right-wing media ecosystem all too familiar is Peter Pomerantsev, who was born in the Soviet Union but fled and later settled in London. When Pomerantsev was in his 20s, he decided to return to Russia. He soon landed a plum job at the heart of Russian television production.

---

Pomerantsev now teaches at Johns Hopkins University, and his latest book illuminates why propaganda is so effective at dividing us. Today, he watches American right-wing television news — particularly Fox News, Newsmax and OAN — with dismay. And he tells me that a career in Russian media would be perfect preparation for working at those networks.

“It’s the same game,” Pomerantsev explains. “It’s the same rhetorical tactics, the same intellectual tactics, the same psychological tactics.”

Much more in the link.

 

[Elixir]

He worked in Russian media. He recognizes the same tactics at Fox News.

“It’s the same rhetorical tactics, the same intellectual tactics, the same psychological tactics.”

And the same pig-ignorant electorate. As some Trumpologists have observed, "we get the government we deserve".

 

[Rhea]

The derail on Russia-Ukraine language has been split and moved to its own thread in Politics.

In both threads, please remember to address the argument, not the person.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The issues with Russia never end for the Trump Admin, I suppose that is what happens when you try to bury everything in a shallow grave on a beach. The Barr Memo is ordered to be released. This could be incredibly scandalous... or more of the same with the Barr Justice Department. Time will tell. The heavily redacted document was heavily redacted, making some people think a good deal of redactable scandal could be behind all that redaction.

We won't know until it is released.

The Justice Department had argued in court that much of the substance of Engel and O'Callaghan's memo should stay blacked out, because it was protected internal discussions about the law and policy. One DOJ lawyer, Paul Colborn, had told the court the memo was meant to help Barr decide whether to prosecute Trump.

Discussion about law is redactable? Smells fishy, a redactable sized fish fishy.

 

[Elixir]

This could be incredibly scandalous... or more of the same

It's impossible to scandalize Trump or trumpsuckers. They have no capacity for shame and no inclination to take responsibility for anything.
Lying to the Court is perfectly legal unless you not only get caught, but get thrown in jail. And that ain't happening to Barr, Colborn or any of the other lying trumpsuckers.

 

[ZiprHead]

Second Steele dossier references claims of the existence of more Trump "sex tapes": report
The former British spy who wrote a salacious dossier about Trump also wrote a sequel, according to a new report

The former British spy who wrote a salacious dossier about Donald Trump also wrote a sequel document, according to a new report.

"The former MI6 spy Christopher Steele produced a second dossier for the FBI on Donald Trump while he was in the White House, sources told The Telegraph. Mr. Steele filed a series of intelligence reports to US authorities during the Trump presidency, including information concerning alleged sexual exploits," the British newspaper reported Monday evening.

"Mr. Steele's continued involvement supplying intelligence to the FBI appears to give credibility to his original dossier, which sparked a special counsel investigation by prosecutor Robert Mueller into Russian interference into the 2016 US presidential elections," the newspaper noted. "The second dossier contains raw intelligence that makes further claims of Russian meddling in the US election and also references claims regarding the existence of further sex tapes. The second dossier is reliant on separate sources to those who supplied information for the first reports."

"The fact the FBI continued to receive intelligence from Mr. Steele, who ran MI6's Russia desk from 2006 to 2009 before setting up Orbis, is potentially significant because it shows his work was apparently still being taken seriously after Mr. Trump took hold of the reins of power," the newspaper explained. "The suggestion it includes further details of Mr. Trump's sexual exploits will infuriate the former president. On Twitter, he has called the allegations a 'pile of garbage.'"

Full report here.

 

[Swammerdami]

This could be incredibly scandalous... or more of the same

It's impossible to scandalize Trump or trumpsuckers. They have no capacity for shame and no inclination to take responsibility for anything.
Lying to the Court is perfectly legal unless you not only get caught, but get thrown in jail. And that ain't happening to Barr, Colborn or any of the other lying trumpsuckers.

What's the penalty for a lawyer lying to a judge in court? It may be very difficult to prove Barr committed felonious perjury, but if it were proved, how long a prison term could Barr get?

Since one of the major U.S. parties is now focused solely on telling lies, I think the Dems should focus on perjury prosecutions.

What are the laws on perjury? I assume a Congresscritter can stand up in House or Senate and spout whatever falsehoods he/she wishes with no fear of consequences. How about if the Congresscritter were required to swear an oath on the Bible before each speech? How hard is it to make lying illegal in some new context?

 

[Elixir]

How hard is it to make lying illegal in some new context?

Pretty much impossible on the federal level. It would take 60 Senators to vote for any new law.
On the State level, the lying (esp re The Big Lie) is mainly a feature of Rethuglican-controlled legislatures. They're not going to vote to lock themselves up.

AFAIK, it's illegal to lie to a judge in a court proceeding, which is why nobody - not one single person - ever testified that they ever saw or participated in any voter fraud in any of the 100+ court cases brought by the losers of the 2020 election.

 

[Swammerdami]

How hard is it to make lying illegal in some new context?

Pretty much impossible on the federal level. It would take 60 Senators to vote for any new law.

Watching 41 Repugnant Senators all vote Nay on an anti-perjury bill might send a message to any Trumpsuckers who watch real news. (Admittedly that may be the null set.)

 

[ZiprHead]

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Surprise! What we thought happened, happened. <a href="https://t.co/IBm9kGsSGE">pic.twitter.com/IBm9kGsSGE</a></p>— Maddow Blog (@MaddowBlog) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1389769470063820805?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]..

 

[lpetrich]

Judge orders Justice Dept. to release Donald Trump obstruction of justice memo - ABC7 Los Angeles

A federal judge has ordered the release of a legal memorandum the Trump-era Justice Department prepared for then-Attorney General William Barr before he announced his conclusion that President Donald Trump had not obstructed justice during the Russia investigation.

...
"In other words, the review of the document reveals that the Attorney General was not then engaged in making a decision about whether the President should be charged with obstruction of justice; the fact that he would not be prosecuted was a given," Jackson said in an order dated Monday.

...
The decision by Barr and senior Justice Department leaders to clear Trump of obstruction, even though special counsel Robert Mueller and his team pointedly did not reach that conclusion, was a significant moment for the president. The announcement, and a four-page summary of Mueller's report, preceded the release of the 448-page document and helped shape public perception of the investigation's conclusions. Mueller subsequently complained to Barr that his summary had not fully captured the investigation's findings and had caused "public confusion."

Barr memo saying not to charge Trump must be released, judge says - CNNPolitics

A federal judge this week rejected the Justice Department's attempts to keep secret a departmental opinion to not charge former President Donald Trump with obstruction at the end of the Mueller investigation, calling the administration's lawyers "disingenuous."

Redacted Justice Department memo on Trump and obstruction raises fresh questions about Barr's handling of Mueller probe - CNNPolitics

The memo, if released, would likely provide fodder to Barr's critics who charge that the attorney general actively distorted the findings of the former special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation in an effort to protect Trump, or even fuel accusations that he lied to Congress.
The Justice Department has until May 17 to decide whether it will appeal or release the memo.

 

[ZiprHead]

Kremlin papers appear to show Putin’s plot to put Trump in White House

Exclusive: Documents suggest Russia launched secret multi-agency effort to interfere in US democracy

Vladimir Putin personally authorised a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump in the 2016 US presidential election during a closed session of Russia’s national security council, according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents.

The key meeting took place on 22 January 2016, the papers suggest, with the Russian president, his spy chiefs and senior ministers all present.

They agreed a Trump White House would help secure Moscow’s strategic objectives, among them “social turmoil” in the US and a weakening of the American president’s negotiating position.

Russia’s three spy agencies were ordered to find practical ways to support Trump, in a decree appearing to bear Putin’s signature.

By this point Trump was the frontrunner in the Republican party’s nomination race. A report prepared by Putin’s expert department recommended Moscow use “all possible force” to ensure a Trump victory.

Western intelligence agencies are understood to have been aware of the documents for some months and to have carefully examined them. The papers, seen by the Guardian, seem to represent a serious and highly unusual leak from within the Kremlin.

The Guardian has shown the documents to independent experts who say they appear to be genuine. Incidental details come across as accurate. The overall tone and thrust is said to be consistent with Kremlin security thinking.

..

 

[Copernicus]

No surprise, but these leaked Kremlin documents represent additional evidence of Putin's highly successful intelligence operation to meddle in a US election.

 

[barbos]

Again, can you really blame him? US has been meddling in Russian elections since forever.
Also, as usual, there is no reason to believe anything British (or any) intelligence say.

 

[fromderinside]

Yes we can. He's been president over the past nearly 21 years. During that time both the population, even with the addition of Crimea and Georgia, and wealth of Russia has declined to new lows, down to about 10th, behind the state of California, and 20th, behind Bangladesh, respectively. Additionally their place in oil production is going down while that of the US is going up, up, up.

His country is bankrupt mainly because he cares only about power projection not population sustainment.

 

[barbos]

Yes we can. He's been president over the past nearly 21 years. During that time both the population, even with the addition of Crimea and Georgia, and wealth of Russia has declined to new lows, down to about 10th, behind the state of California, and 20th, behind Bangladesh, respectively. Additionally their place in oil production is going down while that of the US is going up, up, up.

His country is bankrupt mainly because he cares only about power projection not population sustainment.

What shit are you smoking? I mean this Bangladesh shit. Russian economy is way better now than it was 21 years ago. And troubles are largely attributed to your fucking sanctions, not to the mismanagement. You imposed sanctions because you decided Putin must go, direct meddling in political process. And now you act outraged when Putin decided to respond in kind.
Hello, what are you smoking?

 

[Copernicus]

Again, can you really blame him? US has been meddling in Russian elections since forever.
Also, as usual, there is no reason to believe anything British (or any) intelligence say.

Nonsense. Putin shoehorned himself into power on New Years Eve in 2000 by dislodging Yeltsin, a former local Party boss who was a corrupt drunk. Ever since then, Putin has schemed to keep himself in power and has now made himself essentially "president" for life. The presidential election in Russia is almost as much of a joke as it is in Belarus, just not as blatantly obviously a joke. It would make no sense for the US to meddle in Russian elections, because those elections have little to zero chance of determining who holds power in Russia these days. Criticism is not the same as meddling, and a massive campaign to use social media to promote disinformation and fake news in an effort to manipulate public opinion in the US is not the same as criticism. That is a hostile attack on our country, not even close to the scale of what you think of as US "meddling" in Russian politics. Now we are afflicted with very serious ransomware attacks on US infrastructure that are directed from Russian soil with the apparent blessing, perhaps even direction, of the Russian government. Can we blame Putin? Hell, yes. We're not stupid.