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RussiaGate

barbos said:
TomC said:
We could exchange Putin and Trump and the two countries wouldn't change.
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I disagree. Putin is a far more competent oligarch than Trump. So are many other world leaders. Trump was totally outclassed by people like Putin and Xi, even Netanyahu.

I believe that's why Putin helped Trump so much. He knew that Trump would help weaken the USA. Trump would damage the economy, divide the American people, make us look like idiots on the world stage, weaken us in many ways. C19 was an unexpected bonus.

Putin knew that Trump would help him prevent America From Becoming Great Again. And it worked. We're more divided, sicker, less capable, more inclined to live by borrowing, more inclined to believe lies told by people we respect, than ever before. Russia and China have been going the other direction.

Putin took on the USA in the 2016 election and he won. Huuuugely.
Tom
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So it explains why US was so fond of Eltsin. Becuse you knew he was so incompetent that he would weaken and split Russia further.
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Eltsin? I have no idea who that is.

Did you mean Yeltsin? I vaguely remember him. But I'm talking about current events. Not him.
Tom
 
TomC said:
barbos said:
So it explains why US was so fond of Eltsin. Becuse you knew he was so incompetent that he would weaken and split Russia further.
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Eltsin? I have no idea who that is.

Did you mean Yeltsin? I vaguely remember him. But I'm talking about current events. Not him.
Tom
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He obviously meant Yeltsin.

I'll agree that the Putinator is more sophisticated than Trumpo but the two are very similar in that they're both basically narcissistic, adulation seeking mob bosses who prefer to rule with an iron fist.

I do not agree that the foundational animosity is not democratic principles. The monarchies of Europe were all the same, rule by terror, Russia included. Putin continues to rule by terror. Trump wishes he could rule by terror but is prevented by law and basic shared freedoms.

The problem in Russia is that it has no democratic legacy, it doesn't know what it doesn't know. And it's hard to outgrow centuries of Tsarist conditioning.
 
barbos said:
ZiprHead said:
No lie. It was in the quote I posted from your link that you then snipped. Some might say your posting style is a little dishonest.
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He got charged with lying to the FBI..... the current FBI.
I did not mean you, I meant that lawyer, why would that lawyer lie?
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CNN legal analyst rips apart John Durham's 'bizarre' charges against Clinton lawyer

Addressing the accusation on Friday morning, attorney Toobin admitted he found the charge bizarre and likely to fall apart under further scrutiny, while Jarrett noted that Durham spent five years and came up almost empty-handed.

"I think counselor Jarrett gave a very accurate description of the charges here," Toobin began. "But, if I can just add how weird this case is and how unusual even this case is. First of all, Sussman isn't charged with lying to an FBI agent. He's charged with voluntarily going to a lawyer at the FBI, the top lawyer Jim Baker, and describing what might be a crime and saying you should look into this."

"In that conversation, he says, I'm not representing a client generally," he continued. "Specifically I'm just sort of reporting this. That's what's alleged. There are no notes of this conversation; there is -- this is a five-year-old conversation and in Baker's report to his colleague, the colleague writes down, everyone knows that Susman's firm represents the Clinton campaign, so there was no mystery about who Sussman was or where Sussman was coming from. So the idea that this was some lie that changed the FBI and changed their investigation just seems deeply bizarre to me, if this statement was ever said at all because there are no notes."

"There's no one present there other than the two lawyers and it was almost exactly five years ago because the statute of limitations is going to run out in a couple days," he added. "That's why this case was brought today. So, not only did the Durham investigation labor mightily and brought forth a mouse, this isn't much of a mouse. I don't know what this case is."
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Video in the link.
 
Looks like they are trying to charge him with false reporting. But too incompetent to do even that,

Regardless, AlfaBankGate is the same as PizzaGate, except it was promoted by the democrat media, supposedly good guys.
 
barbos said:
Looks like they are trying to charge him with false reporting. But too incompetent to do even that,

Regardless, AlfaBankGate is the same as PizzaGate, except it was promoted by the democrat media, supposedly good guys.
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Again misrepresenting the story.
 
Speaking of where is more democracy in China or in the US

Russian citizens donating money should be least of your worries.
 
ZiprHead said:
Russian interference is a significant part of the above problem.
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Russia seeks to inflame a problem that already does exist. The Astroturf'd Tea Party was born when Obama won in '09... and it was coddled into existence by Fox News and AM Radio. Of course, the Astro-turfed Tea Party came along on the road after passing Newt Gingrich, Watergate, and the Southern Strategy.

Russia, I think came in after the TeaBaggers were bagging themselves and helped sow dissent, mainly within the parties, they'd shill for Sanders like they would Trump, just to make life harder for the Dems and GOP. Russia is aggravating a problem that has been around quite a while.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
ZiprHead said:
Russian interference is a significant part of the above problem.
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Russia seeks to inflame a problem that already does exist. The Astroturf'd Tea Party was born when Obama won in '09... and it was coddled into existence by Fox News and AM Radio. Of course, the Astro-turfed Tea Party came along on the road after passing Newt Gingrich, Watergate, and the Southern Strategy.

Russia, I think came in after the TeaBaggers were bagging themselves and helped sow dissent, mainly within the parties, they'd shill for Sanders like they would Trump, just to make life harder for the Dems and GOP. Russia is aggravating a problem that has been around quite a while.
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That's pretty much how I see it. Putin exploited the divisiveness of our current media and partisanship. Trump, in particular, was a gold mine of corruption and divisiveness. And Trump is easily led by the ego. Of course Trump was Putin's top choice for helping America self-destruct.
Tom
 
barbos said:
ZiprHead said:
Russian interference is a significant part of the above problem.
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You had that problem before modern Russia existed.
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Doesn't mean Russia wasn't a significant factor in exacerbating the problem.

They're doing the same with vaccine disinformation.

Russian trolls fueled anti-vaccination debate in U.S. by spreading misinformation on Twitter, study finds

Russian Twitter trolls have attempted to fuel the anti-vaccination debate in the U.S., posting about the issue far more than the average Twitter user last year, a study out of George Washington University has found. The "sophisticated" bots shared opinions from both sides of the anti-vaxxer debate, which took the U.S. by storm and prompted tech companies to crack down on the spread of misinformation surrounding vaccinations.

In the study, professor David Broniatowski and his colleagues say the Russian trolls' efforts mimic those used in the past. Such trolls ramp up controversial issues in the U.S. by inflating different viewpoints, the study says.
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When it comes to undermining democracy through disinformation campaigns, Putin looks like a rank amateur in comparison to Murdoch.
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Ever seen the pic of Putin and Murdoch lounging in a hot tub, drinking the blood of socialist babies?
Tom
 
You are like these smokers who got cancer, trying to find other causes of their cancer.
The cause of downfall of Great USA will be...... bunch of fat russian hackers/trolls.
 
barbos said:
You are like these smokers who got cancer, trying to find other causes of their cancer.
The cause of downfall of Great USA will be...... bunch of fat russian hackers/trolls.
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:words:

No one is saying that.
 
barbos said:
You are like these smokers who got cancer, trying to find other causes of their cancer.
The cause of downfall of Great USA will be...... bunch of fat russian hackers/trolls.
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George Washington already predicted what the downfall of the USA would be... It would be "from the inside out". The treasonous insurrectionists both in government and in our population attempted, and failed, to bring down the US that way.

The uneducated, fat, communists that have to wait on line for 8 hours to be given their monthly ration of bread, with their rusted and useless war machines and worthless currency is not, in any shape or form, even a tiny little risk to the USA. They will go the fate of North Korea and disappear into irrelevance.
 
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