RussiaGate

[lpetrich]

(General MacArthur modeling Japan's postwar constitution after the UK one...)

Interesting. ^^^ I did not know that about MacArthur.

I couldn't find any direct documentation of that, but the resemblance is obvious: a parliamentary system with a ceremonial monarch.

 

[lpetrich]

Going further, we come to southern European countries like Spain and Italy, and also to Japan, all with parliamentary systems.

Amidst the Central European nations, we start seeing nations with strong presidents, like the United States, France, South Korea, Taiwan, Costa Rica, Uruguay, and Chile. BTW, the US scores worse than the other nations in this list in the Democracy Index and in the Fragile States Index.

Stronger legislatures, stronger democracies? -- there is a definite correlation between the strength of democracy and the strength of a nation's legislature.

The strength of democracy in nations with parliamentary governments fits in very well. In those nations, the legislatures are the supreme leaders. Strong-president systems produce a temptation of Caesarism, some elected or appointed leader making himself a dictator.


The abundance of parliamentary systems shows that many people outside the US do not envy the US that much -- they don't exactly imitate the US system.


Another issue is how the head of state is chosen. In nearly all systems with strong presidents, the president is elected by direct popular vote. That is sometimes used for ceremonial presidents, but many of them are elected by national legislatures, provincial legislatures, and/or delegates of provincial legislatures.

The US Electoral College is one of a kind, and not used anywhere else in the world, and as far as I've been able to find out, not used for any subsidiary governments in the US -- state and territorial governors and city mayors/managers.

This is what I'd prefer: National Popular Vote

 

[barbos]

(General MacArthur modeling Japan's postwar constitution after the UK one...)

Interesting. ^^^ I did not know that about MacArthur.

I couldn't find any direct documentation of that, but the resemblance is obvious: a parliamentary system with a ceremonial monarch.

The reason could be that they decided that Japan should keep their emperor, hence american system was excluded. So briish system was obvious choice.

 

[barbos]

How do you know this:
?

You all keep repeating the same mantra which US media keeps repeating.
They are lying to you.

How do you know our media is lying and not yours?

They are both lying, Difference is, I know that and you don't.

 

[ZiprHead]

How do you know this:
?

You all keep repeating the same mantra which US media keeps repeating.
They are lying to you.

How do you know our media is lying and not yours?

They are both lying, Difference is, I know that and you don't.

So when you were told "Nobody in Russian government gives a shit about your democracy. All they want is to leave Russia alone and stop trying to regime change them." you knew they were lying?

 

[Elixir]

They are both lying, Difference is, I know that and you don't.

So when you were told "Nobody in Russian government gives a shit about your democracy. All they want is to leave Russia alone and stop trying to regime change them." you knew they were lying?

They really meant “Nobody in Russia gives a shit about your democracy, they just want it to go away.”
So they try to destroy it.

 

[barbos]

They are both lying, Difference is, I know that and you don't.

So when you were told "Nobody in Russian government gives a shit about your democracy. All they want is to leave Russia alone and stop trying to regime change them." you knew they were lying?

I was not told that.

 

[ZiprHead]

They are both lying, Difference is, I know that and you don't.

So when you were told "Nobody in Russian government gives a shit about your democracy. All they want is to leave Russia alone and stop trying to regime change them." you knew they were lying?

They really meant “Nobody in Russia gives a shit about your democracy, they just want it to go away.”
So they try to destroy it.

I wouldn't put it like that. Putin wants to undermine and discredit democratic govt. to help cement his dictatorship without interference. And he's getting lots of help from US republicans.

 

[TomC]

They are both lying, Difference is, I know that and you don't.

So when you were told "Nobody in Russian government gives a shit about your democracy. All they want is to leave Russia alone and stop trying to regime change them." you knew they were lying?

They really meant “Nobody in Russia gives a shit about your democracy, they just want it to go away.”
So they try to destroy it.

I don't think this has anything to do with democracy, or even capitalism. I think it's all about global power.

Until about 1990, the post WWII world was dominated by two superpowers. With the collapse of the Soviet Union Russia was demoted to just another country. The USA has ruthlessly exploited it's position as "world's sole remaining superpower". But Russian ambitions didn't just go away.

I think Putin wants to knock the USA off the top of the global hegemony hill. Not with military force, he's using our dysfunction against us. From our corrupt elite to our fractured capitalist media, to our low information electorate and stupid wars, we give him plenty of opportunities to help us self destruct.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

They really meant “Nobody in Russia gives a shit about your democracy, they just want it to go away.”
So they try to destroy it.

I wouldn't put it like that. Putin wants to undermine and discredit democratic govt. to help cement his dictatorship without interference. And he's getting lots of help from US republicans.

Same thing, put differently. I concur about the "help". Not sure it's a good idea to enlist help from a bunch of self-interested dishonest scumbags, but we'll see how that works out for Putin. Hopefully better for him than for our dishonest Republican scumbags.

 

[barbos]

They really meant “Nobody in Russia gives a shit about your democracy, they just want it to go away.”
So they try to destroy it.

I wouldn't put it like that. Putin wants to undermine and discredit democratic govt. to help cement his dictatorship without interference. And he's getting lots of help from US republicans.

Yes, that's popular in the west mantra.

 

[ZiprHead]

They really meant “Nobody in Russia gives a shit about your democracy, they just want it to go away.”
So they try to destroy it.

I wouldn't put it like that. Putin wants to undermine and discredit democratic govt. to help cement his dictatorship without interference. And he's getting lots of help from US republicans.

Yes, that's popular in the west mantra.

That doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

[barbos]

Yes, that's popular in the west mantra.

That doesn't mean it's wrong.

Does not mean it's right.

 

[bilby]

They really meant “Nobody in Russia gives a shit about your democracy, they just want it to go away.”
So they try to destroy it.

I wouldn't put it like that. Putin wants to undermine and discredit democratic govt. to help cement his dictatorship without interference. And he's getting lots of help from US republicans.

Putin couldn't care less either way about the form of government in other countries than Russia.

His interest is simply to get Americans looking at America, and not interfering with whatever Putin is doing.

Making US Domestic policy as interesting as possible is a good way to distract the US from foreign policy issues; Most Americans neither know nor care about the world beyond their own borders, so it's probably going to be quite an effective strategy.

Democracy doesn't enter the picture. Even if the US had a robust democracy, it wouldn't matter one iota to Putin, as long as the Americans leave Russia alone.

 

[TomC]

Putin couldn't care less either way about the form of government in other countries than Russia.

I don't understand why anyone thinks he does.

But they keep going on about democracy as though Putin cares what form of government or economic system his arch enemy uses. As long as he can exploit the weaknesses.
Tom

 

[barbos]

Putin couldn't care less either way about the form of government in other countries than Russia.

I don't understand why anyone thinks he does.

Because Talking Heads on CNN say so?
It's a convenient and pleasant lie, people feel good about themselves.

 

[bilby]

Putin couldn't care less either way about the form of government in other countries than Russia.

I don't understand why anyone thinks he does.

Because Talking Heads on CNN say so?
It's a convenient and pleasant lie, people feel good about themselves.

I suspect it's a bit of 'protest too much'.

The US has a poorly designed and weak democracy, and rather than face its failings, they loudly proclaim that not only is it acceptable, it's the best democracy ever in the whole big wide world ever, and everyone else wishes they could have democracy as good as theirs, and they all say mean things about it but it's just because they're jealous and mean and they're nasty and they're mean and they smell and they smell of poo.

This infantile attitude would be much funnier if they didn't have a massive arsenal of nuclear weapons.

 

[barbos]

Making US Domestic policy as interesting as possible is a good way to distract the US from foreign policy issues; Most Americans neither know nor care about the world beyond their own borders, so it's probably going to be quite an effective strategy.

It goes both ways, american media likes to distract people away from domestic problems with foreign ones.
Blaming Russia for Trump for example. Clearly role of Russia is minuscule and yet they all trying to say that Trump would not have been elected without these russians.

 

[fromderinside]

... and yet people are coming here in and to democracies in general droves seeking better lives even when some say "Don't dare come" while Russia seems bent on destroying anyone criticizing the motherland.


I'm giving my belief about national quality to those who use their feet. It certainly isn't moving in to some dictatorial state.

 

[barbos]

... and yet people are coming here in and to democracies in general droves seeking better lives even when some say "Don't dare come" while Russia seems bent on destroying anyone criticizing the motherland.


I'm giving my belief about national quality to those who use their feet. It certainly isn't moving in to some dictatorial state.

It's economy, stupid!