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That's not a voting app.
It all could be true, but it does not change the fact that we have here an app which is clearly designed to manipulate voting.

Please state clearly how it was designed to manipulate voting.
That app in question is specifically designed to to defeat ruling party. It basically selects opposite candidates with "better" chance of defeating ruling party candidate and tells you to vote for them regardless of any other info, basically it tells you to vote for someone you know nothing about.

It goes without saying that the app is designed to defeat United Russia. Duh! It is produced by opponents to that party, and it is designed to help voters recognize those candidates that have the best chance of getting rid of United Russia. In a democracy, that kind of coordinated activity by a political movement is perfectly reasonable. It is the whole point of having elections in the first place. You aren't supposed to have elections in which the ruling party gets to manipulate the system to exclude opposition movements. Rather, the point is that the ruling party needs to convince the electorate that it is worth keeping in office. If United Russia can do that, then the app is useless. What keeps Putin's party in power is that they cheat, so banning the app is bad for democracy and good for autocracy. If you oppose democracy, then you will favor banning the app and taking extraordinary measures to keep people from organizing a base of voters to oppose the ruling party.

What the internet does for you is it allows you to filter out sources of information that you don't want to be exposed to. We can all watch Russian TV and just about any other source online, so your boast that you don't watch Russian TV is nonsense. You can and do watch Russian news on a computer screen, and you have sometimes cited it in the rare occasions here where you actually attempt to back up claims you've made. If you are tired of so-called "democratic propaganda" (Democratic party or just pro-democracy? You don't specify), then you can find lots of Republican anti-democracy and anti-Democrat propaganda to douse yourself with.
FoxNews is not officially aired in Russia or at least not free. There is CNN, BBC, japanese news in english and french in french and german in german.
Of course one can get all kind of satellite channels depending on your location. But the ones I listed have licences and distributed officially over optic cable.

That's sad, but I have to admit that I don't know what is available to you. I thought that your sources would be less limited. Can you at least get NBC, ABC, and CBS news? MSNBC?

And you have so far dodged answering my question twice now: Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing? It looks like you have no intention of answering it, but that should come as no surprise to anyone. All you gave in response to it was a weak "Good or bad will depend on a lot of things." Then you quickly changed the subject to a whataboutism concerning American elections.
I am not his press secretary and I don't have enough information about this app. All I can tell you it's small potato compared to lack of free press even if it turns out to be bad. So why do you bother with it?

I was interested in your honest opinion of whether you thought such apps ought to be banned. You seem to have bought into the idea that it is a bad thing in a free election, but the opposite is true in a real election. All sides should be free to take measures to rally their voting base. The United Russia certainly is.
 
That's not a voting app.

That app in question is specifically designed to to defeat ruling party. It basically selects opposite candidates with "better" chance of defeating ruling party candidate and tells you to vote for them regardless of any other info, basically it tells you to vote for someone you know nothing about.

It goes without saying that the app is designed to defeat United Russia. Duh! It is produced by opponents to that party, and it is designed to help voters recognize those candidates that have the best chance of getting rid of United Russia. In a democracy, that kind of coordinated activity by a political movement is perfectly reasonable. It is the whole point of having elections in the first place. You aren't supposed to have elections in which the ruling party gets to manipulate the system to exclude opposition movements. Rather, the point is that the ruling party needs to convince the electorate that it is worth keeping in office. If United Russia can do that, then the app is useless. What keeps Putin's party in power is that they cheat, so banning the app is bad for democracy and good for autocracy. If you oppose democracy, then you will favor banning the app and taking extraordinary measures to keep people from organizing a base of voters to oppose the ruling party.
Putin is actually (according to independent polls) quite popular. United Russia not that much but the rest is even less popular (at least among likely voters)
I don't really understand your fixation on this app.
What the internet does for you is it allows you to filter out sources of information that you don't want to be exposed to. We can all watch Russian TV and just about any other source online, so your boast that you don't watch Russian TV is nonsense.
It's just terrible, Imagine Fox News combined with Jerry Springer. That's what political shows are there. And entertainment are mostly soap operas for 60+ women and men separetely. If i want to waste some time with watching something I would rather watch something better.
Official TV is dead to people younger to 50, they have everything they want on internet.
You can and do watch Russian news on a computer screen, and you have sometimes cited it in the rare occasions here where you actually attempt to back up claims you've made. If you are tired of so-called "democratic propaganda" (Democratic party or just pro-democracy? You don't specify), then you can find lots of Republican anti-democracy and anti-Democrat propaganda to douse yourself with.
FoxNews is not officially aired in Russia or at least not free. There is CNN, BBC, japanese news in english and french in french and german in german.
Of course one can get all kind of satellite channels depending on your location. But the ones I listed have licences and distributed officially over optic cable.

That's sad, but I have to admit that I don't know what is available to you. I thought that your sources would be less limited.
Not as limited as yours.
Can you at least get NBC, ABC, and CBS news? MSNBC?
I don't know. You have to ask NBC, ABC, and CBS. Did they bother to distribute their signal in Russia?. If I really wanted to have their signal
I would have asked you for you to share your account with me or even buy one officially :) It's internet TV nowdays,
But I can see their website with whatever they publish there and youtube foir free. I am not in China or North Korea.
And even in China I think one can buy satellite dish and say "Fuck you, Xi!"

CNN (international) is aired as is, but without normal adds, sometimes they leak though.

And you have so far dodged answering my question twice now: Do you think that Putin did a good thing when he banned the app or a bad thing? It looks like you have no intention of answering it, but that should come as no surprise to anyone. All you gave in response to it was a weak "Good or bad will depend on a lot of things." Then you quickly changed the subject to a whataboutism concerning American elections.
I am not his press secretary and I don't have enough information about this app. All I can tell you it's small potato compared to lack of free press even if it turns out to be bad. So why do you bother with it?

I was interested in your honest opinion of whether you thought such apps ought to be banned. You seem to have bought into the idea that it is a bad thing in a free election, but the opposite is true in a real election. All sides should be free to take measures to rally their voting base. The United Russia certainly is.
I gave you my honest opinion the first time it came out. It was banned because it was perceived as a threat to manipulate hordes of 18-30 year olds into actually voting. According to current model, only people above 50 and especially above 70 are supposed to vote because they watch state TV and know who to vote for :)
 
There are no laws in Russia which allows to murder and jail oppositions.
I compared this app banning with election suppression laws in US. And comparison is not in your favor.

Doesn't mean Putin doesn't assassinate the opposition at times.
 
There are no laws in Russia which allows to murder and jail oppositions.
I compared this app banning with election suppression laws in US. And comparison is not in your favor.

Doesn't mean Putin doesn't assassinate the opposition at times.
Yes, West tend to assign all these deaths to Putin, regardless of the circumstances.
 
Really? How does the app change any votes at all? It's not like the practice of  carrousel voting that is sometimes used in Russian cities to manipulate vote totals.
English version of the article is terrible (must have been written by Jen Psaki). It does not explain the algorithm and does not mention who invented it ;) You need to read russian version of the article.

Give me a link to the Russian version that you were reading. Algorithms aren't the issue here, but basic system design is. Algorithms are just formal descriptions of systemic behavior. It is a matter of system design. Based on articles that I've been reading, the app is only designed to help voters select candidates who could help to bring down the dominance of United Russia and the Putin regime. That is a perfectly legitimate goal for a free election campaign. Maybe most Russians want the Putin regime to continue, which seems to be the consensus of most news commentators even in the US. If that is the case, then this app is no real threat to Putin's rule. However, Putin seems to feel that the app is a threat to his power. In any case, I would like to see the Russian source that you are looking at. Maybe I'll learn something different from what I've already seen.
 
Putin is actually (according to independent polls) quite popular. United Russia not that much but the rest is even less popular (at least among likely voters)
I don't really understand your fixation on this app.

I am not fixated on the app, but on the fact that the current regime has banned it, not to mention jailing the popular head to the movement behind it. They even raided Google's Moscow office to make sure that it was removed. It's not about my fixation. It's about Putin's fixation. If he is so popular, why would he bother?

Can you at least get NBC, ABC, and CBS news? MSNBC?
I don't know. You have to ask NBC, ABC, and CBS. Did they bother to distribute their signal in Russia?. If I really wanted to have their signal
I would have asked you for you to share your account with me or even buy one officially :) It's internet TV nowdays,
But I can see their website with whatever they publish there and youtube foir free. I am not in China or North Korea.
And even in China I think one can buy satellite dish and say "Fuck you, Xi!"

The Chinese use VPN. None of this has anything to do with signals. It has to do with IP addresses, and you should be able to reach any IP address with a connection to the Internet. None of those media outlets do anything except publish their DNS addresses on the internet. If you can't get something, it is likely a problem with your government blocking access to an address. The Chinese have the same problem that Russians do in terms of the ruling regime trying to block or limit access to DNS sites. Until now, most Chinese who were internet savvy were able to use a VPN to get around local restrictions on access, but their government has been cutting off that access as much as possible. I think that the same is happening in your country, not to mention many other countries around the world. Constraining access to information is of key importance to autocratic governments.

CNN (international) is aired as is, but without normal adds, sometimes they leak though.
Yes, but that is quite normal. Even on a cruise ship, you don't get the ads. They are normally restricted to local internet domains, since sponsors don't want to pay for access to markets where they don't sell their products.

I was interested in your honest opinion of whether you thought such apps ought to be banned. You seem to have bought into the idea that it is a bad thing in a free election, but the opposite is true in a real election. All sides should be free to take measures to rally their voting base. The United Russia certainly is.
I gave you my honest opinion the first time it came out. It was banned because it was perceived as a threat to manipulate hordes of 18-30 year olds into actually voting. According to current model, only people above 50 and especially above 70 are supposed to vote because they watch state TV and know who to vote for :)

Sorry, but I must have missed the post where you made that comment. I understand that you are being sarcastic and somewhat fatalistic about the situation you face in Russia. The problem that we've been having is that it isn't always easy to tell when you are being sarcastic and when you are being sincere. The point is that everyone should have equal access to the polls in both Russia and the US, if democracy is to work. The situation isn't perfect in either country, but I think that it is still vastly better in the US, even with some of these idiotic laws passed in red states to suppress Democratic votes. Those laws can have an impact in very close elections, as they did in 2016 and subsequent election cycles. However, they don't really do much to overturn a majority vote in elections that are not close, which is why Joe Biden overwhelmed Trump in both the popular and electoral vote counts.
 
I am not fixated on the app, but on the fact that the current regime has banned it, not to mention jailing the popular head to the movement behind it. They even raided Google's Moscow office to make sure that it was removed. It's not about my fixation. It's about Putin's fixation. If he is so popular, why would he bother?

I don't know. You have to ask NBC, ABC, and CBS. Did they bother to distribute their signal in Russia?. If I really wanted to have their signal
I would have asked you for you to share your account with me or even buy one officially :) It's internet TV nowdays,
But I can see their website with whatever they publish there and youtube foir free. I am not in China or North Korea.
And even in China I think one can buy satellite dish and say "Fuck you, Xi!"

The Chinese use VPN. None of this has anything to do with signals. It has to do with IP addresses, and you should be able to reach any IP address with a connection to the Internet. None of those media outlets do anything except publish their DNS addresses on the internet.
No, you don't understand. I was talking about basically "cable" TV from state owned company called Rostelecom.
If you buy internet from them then they can offer you TV subscription with selection of about ~1000 channels (including adult channels). And the minimum default set (~$2/month :) ) includes CNN/BBC/French/German/Japanese/Belarus and probably few other news channels. You can buy that subscription in US too I think.
I mean you don't need to buy their internet access. Some channels are free for all their users even without subscription. I can't tell how many are free but standard, over the air channels are certainly free. basically if You have internet you don't need ordinary TV antenna.
VPN is not banned and is not really needed for the most part, because Russia does not ban google/facebook and other global companies. The only company which is banned is LinkedIn, I bet you are surprised :)
Yes, they try to ban certain youtube channels and lift google bans from others. Recently youtube banned RT in Germany and some russian propaganda channel (in russian)
If you can't get something, it is likely a problem with your government blocking access to an address.
Incorrect, most of the time it's problem with your companies. for example, I can't get target.com and some other sites which decided to cut traffic outside of US. For them I have to use free proxies. they maintain official list of domains or even particular pages which are currently banned. Most of them are torrent and porn websites. That's not to say that porn is banned. it's just some people report some websites as child porn or something harmful and then court quickly bans them without even checking.
The Chinese have the same problem that Russians do in terms of the ruling regime trying to block or limit access to DNS sites.
Not the same. And what is DNS site? DNS server? or domain?
Until now, most Chinese who were internet savvy were able to use a VPN to get around local restrictions on access, but their government has been cutting off that access as much as possible.
I think that the same is happening in your country, not to mention many other countries around the world. Constraining access to information is of key importance to autocratic governments.
You are awfully misinformed. Cat is out of the bag, there is nothing russian government can do. All they can do is to put fines on google&Co in order to compel them to behave. Banning google is out of the question.
CNN (international) is aired as is, but without normal adds, sometimes they leak though.
Yes, but that is quite normal. Even on a cruise ship, you don't get the ads. They are normally restricted to local internet domains, since sponsors don't want to pay for access to markets where they don't sell their products.

I was interested in your honest opinion of whether you thought such apps ought to be banned. You seem to have bought into the idea that it is a bad thing in a free election, but the opposite is true in a real election. All sides should be free to take measures to rally their voting base. The United Russia certainly is.
I gave you my honest opinion the first time it came out. It was banned because it was perceived as a threat to manipulate hordes of 18-30 year olds into actually voting. According to current model, only people above 50 and especially above 70 are supposed to vote because they watch state TV and know who to vote for :)

Sorry, but I must have missed the post where you made that comment. I understand that you are being sarcastic and somewhat fatalistic about the situation you face in Russia. The problem that we've been having is that it isn't always easy to tell when you are being sarcastic and when you are being sincere. The point is that everyone should have equal access to the polls in both Russia and the US, if democracy is to work. The situation isn't perfect in either country, but I think that it is still vastly better in the US, even with some of these idiotic laws passed in red states to suppress Democratic votes. Those laws can have an impact in very close elections, as they did in 2016 and subsequent election cycles. However, they don't really do much to overturn a majority vote in elections that are not close, which is why Joe Biden overwhelmed Trump in both the popular and electoral vote counts.
The best thing you can do is to stop being easy target for Russian propaganda with the nonsense you have. I mean being better example of democracy.
 
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You can try and see what you can watch from US
https://wink.rt.ru/

I suspect you would have to get subscription to watch anything but from russian IP you will get some free channels and from rostelekom IP some more.
 
That's not a voting app.

It is a voting app. It may not be identical to the app banned in Russia, but it is a voting app.

KeepTalking said:
It all could be true, but it does not change the fact that we have here an app which is clearly designed to manipulate voting.

Please state clearly how it was designed to manipulate voting.

That app in question is specifically designed to to defeat ruling party. It basically selects opposite candidates with "better" chance of defeating ruling party candidate and tells you to vote for them regardless of any other info, basically it tells you to vote for someone you know nothing about.

That's great, does not sound much different from a plethora of voting apps and websites in the US. It may come as a surprise to you, but here in the US we get voting guides in the mail from parties that tell you who to vote for in a given election. They even knock on your front door and tell you who to vote for. Why would an app that does the same damn thing be a problem?
 
It is a voting app. It may not be identical to the app banned in Russia, but it is a voting app.
No, it's just a Biden's website.
KeepTalking said:
Please state clearly how it was designed to manipulate voting.

That app in question is specifically designed to to defeat ruling party. It basically selects opposite candidates with "better" chance of defeating ruling party candidate and tells you to vote for them regardless of any other info, basically it tells you to vote for someone you know nothing about.

That's great, does not sound much different from a plethora of voting apps and websites in the US.
It may come as a surprise to you, but here in the US we get voting guides in the mail from parties that tell you who to vote for in a given election. They even knock on your front door and tell you who to vote for. Why would an app that does the same damn thing be a problem?

There is a difference between voting for somebody and voting against particular person/party. In fact voting against "Hillary" (essentially ruling party/establishment) gave you Trump. In Russia one time they had option "against everybody", I don't know if they have it right now, but If I remember correctly they got rid of that option some time ago.
basically that app is like that "against everybody".

Anyway, here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Voting#Censorship

Maybe I am over-analyzing it and the ban is a simple technicality of dealing with Navalny. They declared him an extremist, hence his organization and all activities are automatically banned.
 
No, it's just a Biden's website.

It was an App as well, the app is no longer available, not because it was banned, but because it is not currently needed.

KeepTalking said:
That app in question is specifically designed to to defeat ruling party. It basically selects opposite candidates with "better" chance of defeating ruling party candidate and tells you to vote for them regardless of any other info, basically it tells you to vote for someone you know nothing about.

That's great, does not sound much different from a plethora of voting apps and websites in the US.
It may come as a surprise to you, but here in the US we get voting guides in the mail from parties that tell you who to vote for in a given election. They even knock on your front door and tell you who to vote for. Why would an app that does the same damn thing be a problem?

There is a difference between voting for somebody and voting against particular person/party.

Yes, there is, but neither one should be illegal, and an app that encourages either one should not be banned for it.


In fact voting against "Hillary" (essentially ruling party/establishment) gave you Trump.

And it wasn't illegal, it was just stupid.

In Russia one time they had option "against everybody", I don't know if they have it right now, but If I remember correctly they got rid of that option some time ago.
basically that app is like that "against everybody".

Anyway, here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Voting#Censorship

Maybe I am over-analyzing it and the ban is a simple technicality of dealing with Navalny. They declared him an extremist, hence his organization and all activities are automatically banned.

Is that your way of conceding that there was no good reason for the app to be banned, and that your former claims of "foreign money" and "manipulating voting" were just red herrings?
 
There is no doubt that foreign money were involved in direct financing Navalny and indirect financing of this app.
And app was banned simply because of the link to Navalny. The guy is crazy, even CNN says that.
 
And app was banned simply because of the link to Navalny.

Do you think that it is a good thing or a bad thing to ban an app simply because it is linked to an opposition leader?

The guy is crazy, even CNN says that.

Ok, we have our share of crazy politicians here as well. I don't really watch CNN, but I am willing to take your word on that.

So, is it your position that a politician's app should be banned simply because the politician is perceived to be crazy?
 
There are no laws in Russia which allows to murder and jail oppositions.
I compared this app banning with election suppression laws in US. And comparison is not in your favor.

Doesn't mean Putin doesn't assassinate the opposition at times.
Yes, West tend to assign all these deaths to Putin, regardless of the circumstances.

When Putin assassinates with things like chemical weapons that pretty much says state-sponsored.
 
And app was banned simply because of the link to Navalny.

Do you think that it is a good thing or a bad thing to ban an app simply because it is linked to an opposition leader who is financed by a hostile nation?
Fixed for you.
The guy is crazy, even CNN says that.

Ok, we have our share of crazy politicians here as well. I don't really watch CNN, but I am willing to take your word on that.

So, is it your position that a politician's app should be banned simply because the politician is perceived to be crazy?
No, he is much crazier than yours.
 
Yes, West tend to assign all these deaths to Putin, regardless of the circumstances.

When Putin assassinates with things like chemical weapons that pretty much says state-sponsored.

Oh, now you don't include ordinary assassinations anymore?

you mean to say there are more opposition candidates that have been murdered by normal means than the ones we've heard about in the news?

I don't think that's helping your case.
 
Do you think that it is a good thing or a bad thing to ban an app simply because it is linked to an opposition leader who is financed by a hostile nation?

Well, we didn't do it to Trump...
 
Fixed for you.

No, you did not, as you still have not answered the question, even as modified by yourself. Let me give you my answer, since you are trying to be so clever. No the app should not be banned even in your modified scenario. In that scenario, legal steps should be taken to charge the candidate with the crimes committed, and then those crimes should be proven using the legal system. This would make the need to ban the app superfluous, as the candidate would either be proven innocent, or would no longer be a candidate.

KeepTalking said:
The guy is crazy, even CNN says that.

Ok, we have our share of crazy politicians here as well. I don't really watch CNN, but I am willing to take your word on that.

So, is it your position that a politician's app should be banned simply because the politician is perceived to be crazy?
No, he is much crazier than yours.

Crazier than Vermin Supreme? I doubt it. But that really is not relevant.

Your answer is yet another dodge. Do you think a politician's app should be banned simply because the politician is perceived to be crazy? I will give you my answer here as well, so that at least someone will be on record as having provided a non-evasive response: no.
 
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