Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[barbos]

It sounds too good to be true but apparently these ~50 generals&lesser were the least incompetent part of VSU higher ranks who gathered together in order to plan retreat from Severodonetsk where boatloads of ukranian soldiers are semi-circled by the russian army.

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

 

[zorq]

There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The problem with the "agreed upon peace plan" above is the sections requiring to Ukraine to disarm. This would require them trusting Russia to not invade again! How is that possible? Russian word is shit.

I can assure you that Russia will invade Ukraine again if they try to arm themselves again.
And it is your word which is shit. You promised not to expand NATO to the East!
And Putin promised to invade if necessary in 2008. He is a man of his word

Yes, you make my point. Putler will attack for any made up reasons. Doesn't have to be rearming. Russia has local drought for whatever reason, border area has water, Putler half-heartedly negotiates for water, the Russia invents Nazi threat, then just invades. You see the issue right? Russia has eliminated their "soft power". Countries don't trust Putler. Russian word is shit.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

 

[Harry Bosch]

There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.

I think that it's option 2. I don't think that the Russians are dumb. They are clearly very imperialist and want land. And they see no reason to respect past treaties, recognize other countries sovereignty, and adherence of international law.

 

[TV and credit cards]

There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.

I think that it's option 2. I don't think that the Russians are dumb. They are clearly very imperialist and want land. And they see no reason to respect past treaties, recognize other countries sovereignty, and adherence of international law.

I have to wonder what role generations of propaganda took in shaping opinions. What role cultural differences took too; the importance one’s word, written or verbal, or the value of human life, and how this balances against national pride. We tend to view these things through our own eyes, taking for granted there is one standard we are all going by.

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.

Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.

 

[Harry Bosch]

There is something ... off... about Russians who complain about NATO expansion. And I can see only two reasons for this.

Option1: Russians are too stupid to understand what a defensive alliance entails. This option is valid because there is no real reason for a peaceful people to care about defensive alliances or their size or location. Which leads us to ...

Option2: Russians are so violent and duplicitous that they know they can't help but to attack their neighbors. Even neighbors whom they have given written promises to not attack, like Ukraine with the Budapest Memorandum. So these Russians will understand that, to other peaceful countries, a defensive alliance has no meaning or purpose and constitutes no threat. But these smart Russians have the intelligence to understand that they themselves aren't peaceful people and deep down crave unnecessary violence which actually DOES make NATO a threat. These Russians can't help but to crave murder and mayham so that they can rape, pillage, and steal.

So which is it? Are Russians too fucking violent for this world or too fucking stupid?

Maybe there is a third option (besides 'both') and I'm just not seeing it.

I think that it's option 2. I don't think that the Russians are dumb. They are clearly very imperialist and want land. And they see no reason to respect past treaties, recognize other countries sovereignty, and adherence of international law.

I have to wonder what role generations of propaganda took in shaping opinions. What role cultural differences took too; the importance one’s word, written or verbal, or the value of human life, and how this balances against national pride. We tend to view these things through our own eyes, taking for granted there is one standard we are all going by.

Oh, there is no real difference between the people of Russia and Americans. We are all gullible and can be easily manipulated. Imagine if Q took over in Texas; evicted all moderates and those on the left; then set up secret police to terrorize those who were uncomfortable with the remaining majority; Q could do whatever he wants. Same in Russia. IMO, Putler is just telling the remaining Russians what they want to hear.

20 minutes after I wrote the above, I saw the below story:

Texas Republicans declare Biden election illegitimate, despite evidence

A large group of Texans continue to believe that the 2020 election was stolen. It doesn't take a lot of evidence to convince a gullible group almost anything. I'm not surprised in the least that Putler is able to convince a sizable group in Russia that Ukrainians are being mean to them and are Nazis.

 

[barbos]

The Odessa union building fire was a tragic accident.

Really?
There was nothing accidental about it. Current ukrainian regime was responsible for it.
In case you were not aware, police was present and did nothing to prevent it and later did nothing to investigate and punish perpetrators. Once Odessa is back in Russia they will try to start investigation and bring perpetrators to justice.
2014 Donetsk bombing was accident too?

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.

Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.

Why should Russia be happy about you causing more ukrainians to die?

 

[Elixir]

“idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia”

Love it.
Now I have a visual image of drooling morons frenetically running about, trying to figure out how to “declare war to Russia”.

The more incoherent Barbos becomes, the funnier he gets.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now

Meanwhile in other news, M777 howitzers proved to be useless garbage.
Prone to breaking by themselves and having no protection and since Ukraine was not supplied with spare parts even shrapnel can make it inoperable.
Now I understand that video of russian Krasnopol shell "destroying" 2 M777 in one shot. They intentionally hit between them, very cost effective.

Experts say, these howitzers were not designed for artillery duels at all.

Riiight! Just like your claim in the very beginning that Javelins are no problem for Russian tanks! However, if you are right, Russia should be happy to allow the west to resupply Ukraine with more western arms.

Why should Russia be happy about you causing more ukrainians to die?

This is extremely interesting! So, you believe that Russia is upset about the western arms coming into Ukraine because they are defective, and they cause Ukrainians to die? They blow up in the Ukrainian faces? And the Russians are concerned about the well being of the Ukranians? I don't want to straw man you. So, please confirm or deny.

 

[Copernicus]

Meanwhile, idiots in Lithuania are trying to declare war to Russia. The war in which NATO will no legal right to help them.

What are you talking about here? The so-called "right of free transit" is allowed for nations that are in peace. Countries that are at war and not trusted don't get the benefit of right of free transit. Another example of the Russian loss of soft power.

Yep, Lithuania is at war with Russia now
...

No, it isn't. The EU has imposed sanctions on Russia, and Lithuania is required to enforce those sanctions. Russia is making hysterical noises over it, naturally, but there is no war. Russia does not dare attack Lithuania, because it would then be at war with NATO, an outcome that no sane person could welcome. If Russia wants to move contraband between Kaliningrad and the rest of Russia, then it can use ships in the Baltic for that. Otherwise, don't send contraband overland through Lithuanian territory and expect them to turn a blind eye to it.

See: Russia warns Lithuania over Kaliningrad goods restrictions

 

[ZiprHead]

For folks who don't know what Barbos is talking about.

 

[Copernicus]

...For folks who don't know what Barbos is talking about.

It would be a lot easier to conduct a coherent conversation with him if he would only link his comments to some sources. It was impossible to understand what he was going on about without doing a search for something to do with Russia and Lithuania in the past few hours. That popped up news stories that explained the story and also allowed me to understand his disingenuous claim that Russia and Lithuania were at war. Russia is, of course, always blustering and threatening over some incident, but the story wasn't deemed worthy of headlines in the West. Not immediately, at any rate. Nobody takes these threats from Russia seriously, since they are always crying foul about one thing or another.

 

[TV and credit cards]

"The situation is more than serious," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. "This decision is really unprecedented. It's a violation of everything."

Dmitry P - They say they want spokesperson. I thought, yeah, I work on bicycle all the time. I be good spokesperson.

 

[Harry Bosch]

"The situation is more than serious," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. "This decision is really unprecedented. It's a violation of everything."

Dmitry P - They say they want spokesperson. I thought, yeah, I work on bicycle all the time. I be good spokesperson.

Has there ever been a country so hypocritical? Ever? Russia violates international law by baring the transit of goods from Ukrainian ports to Africa and the Mid east (agriculture products). And then they get in a hussy when Lithuanian prevents some products from shipping. Many products still go though. It's not a total ban. And yet Russia totally bans shipments from Ukraine!

 

[SigmatheZeta]

"The situation is more than serious," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. "This decision is really unprecedented. It's a violation of everything."

Dmitry P - They say they want spokesperson. I thought, yeah, I work on bicycle all the time. I be good spokesperson.

Has there ever been a country so hypocritical? Ever? Russia violates international law by baring the transit of goods from Ukrainian ports to Africa and the Mid east (agriculture products). And then they get in a hussy when Lithuanian prevents some products from shipping. Many products still go though. It's not a total ban. And yet Russia totally bans shipments from Ukraine!

Well, Russia is an evil imperialist regime. Do you expect them to behave like a normal country?