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Sacred sites are a sign of a weak god

Frankly, I don't understand the intent of OP's question.

I was pondering whether the adulation/worship/defense of sacred sites (or vessels or shards or whatever) represent a plot hole in stories of god(dess)(es) who are purported to be
So, again I can use an example from my stupid little god game. It does, strangely, feature a couple sorts of sacred sites. Some are just in there to act as nucleation points for !!fun!!.

!!fun!! Is a euphemism for things going sideways and terrible.

The second kind of holy site is... Disturbingly like the kind you describe.

This sort of "holy site" is really "a limited play area", a limited area in which the player can interact with the game universe in a direct way. Note that I could define or operate on any position or entity in the game using a memory editor/debugger, but that's like trying to type on a computer by rhythmically bridging traces on the motherboard by hand with a loose wire. Why do that when there's a limited, but useful interface for doing what you want in a less brain-numbing way?

I don't really think it's a plot hole so much as a trait only of worlds which, of all the things that create worlds, are most likely to be created by "a shitheel child going on a fucked up tear".

We can observe that humans can just as easily pretend such mechanisms exist as "real" without them being real at all, a function of humans thinking about games.
 
This thread is everything that Orwell warned about, with all the little editors practicing EngSoc NewSpeak, striking words from the dictionary in order to control and limit thought. Authentic socialism must fight for its life against all this.
 
This thread is everything that Orwell warned about, with all the little editors practicing EngSoc NewSpeak, striking words from the dictionary in order to control and limit thought. Authentic socialism must fight for its life against all this.
How dare we accurately describe observed phenomena with accurate and descriptive language, and the principles about them?

And I should dare say you don't really seem to have a firm grasp on what limits thoughts, and why having sensible rather than contradictory thoughts, while a "limitation", enables the mind to NOT prove literally anything, but instead prove only statements that are true according to the mechanics of the world we actually occupy.

As such, I choose to live in reality, mostly because it's a pretty fucking amazing reality already without needing to fantasize that some asshole idiot child is playing games with the universe.
 
Desecration isn't even a thing, other than as a metaphor for seriously pissing off a bunch of believers.
Historically unwise.
Sure. But desecration is still not a thing.
Do you feel it is your prerogative to define what and how much things and places are valued by others?
No. But that doesn't mean I can't recognise hyperbole when I see it.

The idea that something is not just precious, but sacred, implies the existence of gods who care about that thing (or, more plausibly, the existence of people who have no valid claim to that thing, but wish to impose their opinions anyway).

The objectors are invariably not gods.

The very moment that a god tells me they're upset, I shall happily reconsider.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
This thread is everything that Orwell warned about, with all the little editors practicing EngSoc NewSpeak, striking words from the dictionary in order to control and limit thought. Authentic socialism must fight for its life against all this.

Acts 4. God commands Christians live as communists. God commands it. The Bible proves it. That settles it.

Matthew 7:21
21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Obey, or burn!
 
Desecration isn't even a thing, other than as a metaphor for seriously pissing off a bunch of believers.
Historically unwise.
Sure. But desecration is still not a thing.
Do you feel it is your prerogative to define what and how much things and places are valued by others?
No. But that doesn't mean I can't recognise hyperbole when I see it.

The idea that something is not just precious, but sacred, implies the existence of gods who care about that thing (or, more plausibly, the existence of people who have no valid claim to that thing, but wish to impose their opinions anyway).

The objectors are invariably not gods.

The very moment that a god tells me they're upset, I shall happily reconsider.

I'm not holding my breath.
I believe I gave counterpoint that refutes that belief. Sacred sites to me, in my capacity of acting as a god in a system where not just one but two forms of such exist, are not important to me at all.

In fact, I generally make it a point in some of my interactions to defile such a site by toppling statues there.

I suppose this goes into "mysterious to some, obvious to others" ways. People might attribute some holiness or blessed nature to a site, but the motivations and importance that get assigned to those places by denizens are correct.

Sure, relatively speaking, I might care a little bit... But the site isn't really special. It's just a site that I happened to point an interface at for the sake of simplifying my interactions from "set bit 6 of word f+8" to "select 'build Wall' from 'structure menu'". If the site falls, either I make a new one or try again there. It doesn't make me any less powerful, it just lets me be lazier.

Invariably even with such a site, my objection comes not in the form of any kind of visible divine action, but rather that my decisions, given the power that site gives me over the causality, lead to a very angry army of well armed dwarves turning the goblin invaders on the site to so many blood smears, scattered teeth, and traumatized children carrying dismembered body parts to dump them into a volcano.

There's nothing that exposes me there beyond the fact that decisions are inexplicably different and unique in this one place.

Of course, doing so takes the credit and meaningfulness of success away from the denizens of the world just so I can feel happy and successful. All in all its a rather monstrous sort of act to undertake, if one is not interacting with a universe of entities incapable of spontaneously coming to understand ethics.

In any world where consent is a well-understood concept capable of being actively understood by intelligent entities, this sort of action is still possible, but wildly unethical. I believe that this sort of failure in ethics was highlighted as a major plot point in John Dies at the End, in the depiction of Korrok.
 
This thread is everything that Orwell warned about, with all the little editors practicing EngSoc NewSpeak, striking words from the dictionary in order to control and limit thought. Authentic socialism must fight for its life against all this.
Goddamn, I didn't know echo chambers came that small.
 
^You don't think Jerusalem is sacred? You have nothing to offer on the subject of world affairs.
You seem remarkably unaware of the desecrations committed by Christians.

From the Crusaders to Mount Rushmore, EuroChristians have been desecrating other people's holy sites for centuries. It's a great way to prove dominance.
Tom
 
^You don't think Jerusalem is sacred? You have nothing to offer on the subject of world affairs.
You seem remarkably unaware of the desecrations committed by Christians.

From the Crusaders to Mount Rushmore, EuroChristians have been desecrating other people's holy sites for centuries. It's a great way to prove dominance.
Tom

So... desecration is a thing? Please inform bilby.
 
^You don't think Jerusalem is sacred? You have nothing to offer on the subject of world affairs.
You seem remarkably unaware of the desecrations committed by Christians.

From the Crusaders to Mount Rushmore, EuroChristians have been desecrating other people's holy sites for centuries. It's a great way to prove dominance.
Tom

So... desecration is a thing? Please inform bilby.

Unfortunately for Bilby, down under they can't even tell up from down. Christmas comes in the summer.

I can't explain Australians.
Tom
 
^You don't think Jerusalem is sacred? You have nothing to offer on the subject of world affairs.
Jerusalem is worshipped by people and treated as if it were some important site for their religions.

This does not make it set apart by anything but human choices and human belief in fiction.

While this is, due to its memetic momentum, a significant geopolitical force, this does not make it "sacred" in the way you define gods and whatnot.

That makes it nothing but a human game played by human players with arbitrary and capricious rules we could absolutely collectively decide to walk away from.

The only reason we do not is because humans are really shitty about settling for belief when there are better ways to construct a world view. They just really like their belief, I guess.

So, I think that your offering on world affairs does not set you apart from the world in the least.

Jerusalem needs to be emptied of all its residents and occupied by people who will both respect it's history and who will not believe it is sacred so much as historic.

I would say maybe a collection of first peoples from all over the world should all be offered this place, and the people who live there now collectively split and placed among the first peoples that have decided to take their places, to learn of all the strange and varied cultures of the world. They would be to stay until their whole generation has passed unto a new one, and only then be allowed to return, and only then to share with the people who were given this land.

Desecration is not a uniquely religious concept. It is also a historic concept, that we must record and preserve human history so that the past may be carefully examined with a critical eye through its artifacts.
 
^You don't think Jerusalem is sacred? You have nothing to offer on the subject of world affairs.
You seem remarkably unaware of the desecrations committed by Christians.

From the Crusaders to Mount Rushmore, EuroChristians have been desecrating other people's holy sites for centuries. It's a great way to prove dominance.
Tom

So... desecration is a thing? Please inform bilby.

Unfortunately for Bilby, down under they can't even tell up from down. Christmas comes in the summer.

I can't explain Australians.
Tom
It's worse than you think. He's a Yorkshireman. I believe they do celebrate Christmas, even if it is just with black pudding.
 
Reading about some issues over “sacred sites” and the fights people have over them (e.g. the mormons in Missouri, all of the jerusalem sites), amde me think of how the serve or don’t serve an all-powerful god(dess).

It binds the relationship with the god to a physical site. Making it possible for humans to break another human’s bond wih their god. It betrays that the god is not able to be everywhere and anywhere. It limits the god to interactions that are possible in that site. It teaches humans that as the site deteriorates, so does the god(dess).


When I think about it at length, it just seems like a terribly limiting and constraining binding on gods, clarifying how weak they really are.

Your thoughts?
I think you're arguing a non sequitur. It doesn't follow that if God did something special in a particular place, then God is "bound" to that place. It's just a human quirk to value places and things based on sentimentality rather than those thing's practical values. People need not be religious either to feel that way.
 
In Australia at the moment we are having discussions about Aborginal scared sites i.e birthing trees, paintings, burial grounds. It not just a 'Christian' thing.
This happened nearly 30 years ago but is indicative of what is happening in Australia.
 
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