Sanders Supporters Should Not Quit On Him Now

[Tristan Scott]

When Bernie Sanders decided to run for president he had specific goals in mind. Of course he wanted to win the nomination, but at that time it was considered a long shot. The larger goal was to move the Democratic Party back to the left. The nation had moved to the right 30 years ago, and the Democrats were forced to move towards the center in order to maintain viability. Sanders knew that most democrats were still lefties at heart (this was evidenced by a recent poll that showed that 85% of Clinton supporters would back Sanders were he to win the nomination.) and that there was a large segment of people on the far left that were looking for someone to champion their cause.

By any standard I would say that Sanders has been extremely successful. He will be given a large role in shaping the future of the democratic party. A majority of democrats will welcome a move to the left, and don't kid yourself, the establishment democrats have no intention of turning away the millions of potential party members that Sanders will bring. There will be changes in party rules, and the future of rules changes will be proportional to the level of involvement of those who desire the changes. (I believe that super-delegates will be tough, mainly because I think when people fully understand their purpose, they will realize how important they can be-Bernie Sanders himself began to grasp this towards the end of the primary season-in fact they still could come into play.)

So my question to Sanders supporters is this: Why would you quit on him now? After he has worked his 74 year old butt off to get to this point, how could you do this to him? I would ask, as I'm sure he would, that you not be hasty. Wait and see how it plays out before you completely tune out. I've always trusted Sanders to do the right thing, and would have supported him whole heartedly had it not been for my distrust of many of his supporters. I figured that if he won they would bail out at the first setback or compromise. Right now I would love to see you prove me wrong on this.

 

[prideandfall]

So my question to Sanders supporters is this: Why would you quit on him now?

because US presidential elections are a zero sum game, protest votes mean absolutely nothing, and if you're the sort of progressive that would support sanders in the first place trump winning the election will be substantially worse for your political ideology than clinton winning the election, no matter what a wet blanket of a "democrat" clinton may be.

 

[untermensche]

It is fine to quit on Bernie.

This isn't about Bernie.

Right now it is about trying to push Hillary left.

 

[prideandfall]

Right now it is about trying to push Hillary left.

which can't happen and it really confuses me why so many people in the US thing you can influence politics from the top down.

if you want the US political machine to move to the left you can't just post on your facebook about how you like bernie one election cycle.
ideological shifts are done from the bottom up - liberal mayors, democrat city council members, progressive governors, leftist congress and senate members. people have to actually pay attention to regional politics and affect change from the ground level to get the political landscape of the entire country to shift.

 

[Horatio Parker]

But it has happened. HRC came out against TPP. Both HRC and Obama are talking about expanding SS, not "reforming" it with a "grand bargain". Those developments came out of the response to Sanders.

 

[fromderinside]

So my question to Sanders supporters is this: Why would you quit on him now?

because US presidential elections are a zero sum game, protest votes mean absolutely nothing, and if you're the sort of progressive that would support sanders in the first place trump winning the election will be substantially worse for your political ideology than clinton winning the election, no matter what a wet blanket of a "democrat" clinton may be.

Unfortunately all I hear from you is white noise. Every game has noise. You chose to participate. Participate. Become part of the music of politics and governance. Don't go back to being white noise, pink noise, or any other noise. become part of the music. Maybe you can make it better.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But it has happened. HRC came out against TPP. Both HRC and Obama are talking about expanding SS, not "reforming" it with a "grand bargain". Those developments came out of the response to Sanders.

Ya, if not for Sanders, Clinton would be taking the left wing for granted and working to scoop up as many moderates as possible. Now, she's fairly committed to various left wing positions and can't back away from them during her campaign. The only question for Sanders' supporters which remains is whether they want her to be backing away from them after the election as a result of needing to negotiate with a GOP Congress and Senate or whether she'll be sticking with them after the election due to the demands being made from a Dem Congress and Senate.

Given their numbers and their passion, that question is pretty much entirely in their hands right now.

 

[fromderinside]

Given their numbers and their passion, that question is pretty much entirely in their hands right now.

They're young. They'll quickly find other uses for their hands.

 

[Horatio Parker]

And in Sanders hands. He has shown signs of frustration and bitterness, and some of his judgements, such as the Trump debate challenge, have been poor. I hope he steps up his game, because his ideas are more important than himself.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is fine to quit on Bernie.

This isn't about Bernie.

Right now it is about trying to push Hillary left.

Hillary? I think you mean the Democrat Party.

And as "radical" as Sanders is, the goal is to inform people what Sanders actually is and how the majority of the general public supports most of what he is proposing.

 

[Treedbear]

... The only question for Sanders' supporters which remains is whether they want her to be backing away from them after the election as a result of needing to negotiate with a GOP Congress and Senate or whether she'll be sticking with them after the election due to the demands being made from a Dem Congress and Senate.

Given their numbers and their passion, that question is pretty much entirely in their hands right now.

How is her real agenda in their hands right now, other than by continuing to support the Sanders campaign and get the message out? Especially since probably very few of us believe a word of her acrobatic pandering. She'll move very quickly to consolidate the established regime. Sanders was/is our last best hope. There will have to be a very active and tangible threat to party unity at the convention in order for there to be any hope for meaningful change.

 

[Horatio Parker]

What would be the best outcome behind this strategy? What do you hope to accomplish?

Barring Sanders becoming the nominee, which ain't gonna happen.

 

[arkirk]

What would be the best outcome behind this strategy? What do you hope to accomplish?

Barring Sanders becoming the nominee, which ain't gonna happen.

There has been all through this campaign the kind of skulduggery, instantaneous rule making and manipulation of the citizen's franchise to vote that indicates to me there will never be any trusting the Democratic Party to participate further in any meaningful change in this country. My vote was turned into one of the TWO MILLION provisional ballots possibly counted...possibly not and in no case counted in less than 30 days. Even when I got this "provisional" ballot I had already done in a timely manner a registration switch from Green to Democrat which managed to get lost at the Registrar's office and then near the deadline for registration, two more attempts to register on line were screwed with. In addition, those turned out to be received but were deemed incomplete and the information and signature affidavit was only mailed to me after five additional days delay. What I am saying is there was no way I was ever going to get to vote for Bernie...and that may be true for 2 million of us here in California. When Bernie talks about the establishment, I feel it runs a lot deeper and is a lot more corrupt than he even cares to admit to himself. The Green Party has invited him to join them. I feel Bernie in his congressional career has become too inured to the evils of congress and just takes them for granted. PuertoRico....voter tampering...only 3% voted. How much more of this is there? I think Bernie made a sound enough case to be elected president in any fair campaign and under anything like fair rules. A clitoris on a NeoCon does not now and never will receive my vote. I feel the course of this twisted set of circumstances possibly will not yield to being untangled and all the skulduggery will continue. Bernie, in supporting Clinton will become just another one of them...if he capitulates and does not demand the votes he most probably actually received. If he joins the Clinton camp, I will no longer take his advice and go back to voting Green.

 

[Tristan Scott]

... The only question for Sanders' supporters which remains is whether they want her to be backing away from them after the election as a result of needing to negotiate with a GOP Congress and Senate or whether she'll be sticking with them after the election due to the demands being made from a Dem Congress and Senate.

Given their numbers and their passion, that question is pretty much entirely in their hands right now.

How is her real agenda in their hands right now, other than by continuing to support the Sanders campaign and get the message out? Especially since probably very few of us believe a word of her acrobatic pandering. She'll move very quickly to consolidate the established regime. Sanders was/is our last best hope. There will have to be a very active and tangible threat to party unity at the convention in order for there to be any hope for meaningful change.

Yes, by all means continue to support his campaign-through the convention and beyond. If you actually listened to him yesterday you'd know that he plans on working with Clinton to get as much of his agenda moved forward as he can. Clinton's "real agenda" is to get elected POTUS, and if YOU elect a congress that will push a progressive agenda to her she will sign on. Other than that, she will pick progressive jurists to the SCOTUS and hopefully we can get rid of Citizens United and go from there on campaign finance reform and regs.

 

[Tristan Scott]

What would be the best outcome behind this strategy? What do you hope to accomplish?

Barring Sanders becoming the nominee, which ain't gonna happen.

There has been all through this campaign the kind of skulduggery, instantaneous rule making and manipulation...and so on

There isn't any evidence that any of your bullshit happened, because it didn't. Go! Vote Green or Blue or whatever you want. You can go and piss and moan to them, and they'll give you high fives as you all ride off into irrelevance.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There has been all through this campaign the kind of skulduggery, instantaneous rule making and manipulation...and so on

There isn't any evidence that any of your bullshit happened, because it didn't. Go! Vote Green or Blue or whatever you want. You can go and piss and moan to them, and they'll give you high fives as you all ride off into irrelevance.

It's all a conspiracy! It didn't happen like I wanted it to, so it is a conspiracy. This isn't a case of the most incumbent candidate winning a primary. It had nothing to do with Sanders not being able to gain enough votes from those who are minorities or older than 50. It is a conspiracy!!! A CONSPIRACY!!! Sanders only lost 16 of the 20 largest primaries because... you got it... conspiracy! Clinton will have to steal my vote from my cold... okay, I'm going a bit far here.

 

[Horatio Parker]

So, it's safe to say you don't think he should in any fashion work with HRC, and therefore the Dem nominee, but against her?

What would be the best outcome behind this strategy? What do you hope to accomplish?

Barring Sanders becoming the nominee, which ain't gonna happen.

There has been all through this campaign the kind of skulduggery, instantaneous rule making and manipulation of the citizen's franchise to vote that indicates to me there will never be any trusting the Democratic Party to participate further in any meaningful change in this country. My vote was turned into one of the TWO MILLION provisional ballots possibly counted...possibly not and in no case counted in less than 30 days. Even when I got this "provisional" ballot I had already done in a timely manner a registration switch from Green to Democrat which managed to get lost at the Registrar's office and then near the deadline for registration, two more attempts to register on line were screwed with. In addition, those turned out to be received but were deemed incomplete and the information and signature affidavit was only mailed to me after five additional days delay. What I am saying is there was no way I was ever going to get to vote for Bernie...and that may be true for 2 million of us here in California. When Bernie talks about the establishment, I feel it runs a lot deeper and is a lot more corrupt than he even cares to admit to himself. The Green Party has invited him to join them. I feel Bernie in his congressional career has become too inured to the evils of congress and just takes them for granted. PuertoRico....voter tampering...only 3% voted. How much more of this is there? I think Bernie made a sound enough case to be elected president in any fair campaign and under anything like fair rules. A clitoris on a NeoCon does not now and never will receive my vote. I feel the course of this twisted set of circumstances possibly will not yield to being untangled and all the skulduggery will continue. Bernie, in supporting Clinton will become just another one of them...if he capitulates and does not demand the votes he most probably actually received. If he joins the Clinton camp, I will no longer take his advice and go back to voting Green.

 

[arkirk]

How is her real agenda in their hands right now, other than by continuing to support the Sanders campaign and get the message out? Especially since probably very few of us believe a word of her acrobatic pandering. She'll move very quickly to consolidate the established regime. Sanders was/is our last best hope. There will have to be a very active and tangible threat to party unity at the convention in order for there to be any hope for meaningful change.

Yes, by all means continue to support his campaign-through the convention and beyond. If you actually listened to him yesterday you'd know that he plans on working with Clinton to get as much of his agenda moved forward as he can. Clinton's "real agenda" is to get elected POTUS, and if YOU elect a congress that will push a progressive agenda to her she will sign on. Other than that, she will pick progressive jurists to the SCOTUS and hopefully we can get rid of Citizens United and go from there on campaign finance reform and regs.

So you really think Hillary has anything for you?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

... The only question for Sanders' supporters which remains is whether they want her to be backing away from them after the election as a result of needing to negotiate with a GOP Congress and Senate or whether she'll be sticking with them after the election due to the demands being made from a Dem Congress and Senate.

Given their numbers and their passion, that question is pretty much entirely in their hands right now.

How is her real agenda in their hands right now, other than by continuing to support the Sanders campaign and get the message out? Especially since probably very few of us believe a word of her acrobatic pandering. She'll move very quickly to consolidate the established regime. Sanders was/is our last best hope. There will have to be a very active and tangible threat to party unity at the convention in order for there to be any hope for meaningful change.

How so? The convention isn't worth shit. Having most liberal and progressive proposals possible in the Democratic platform are completely irrelevant if President Clinton is negotiating with a GOP congress in order to get legislation passed because they won't agree to any of it and the proposals will die. Having the most rightwing and repressive proposals possible in the Democratic platform are completely irrelevant if President Clinton is negotiating with a Democratic congress in order to get legislation passed because they won't agree to any of it and the proposals will die.

If Sanders' supporters come out and vote in the general election, they will get the Dems a majority and he will be a major power player in that majority congress and he can push forward whatever he wants as a result, regardless of whether or not it was in the convention platform and put together a bloc to kill whatever he doesn't like regardless of whether it was in the convention platform. He will be negotiating from a position of strength after he has shown that he has what it takes to deliver. If he tries to negotiate too hard now, he will just cause resentment and anger amongst his colleagues and undercut his ability to influence policy.

 

[Horatio Parker]

They're not irrelevant if Congress starts turning blue. Which can only happen by keeping such issues, and the public response to them, in sight.

I'm all for Sanders keeping his vision alive. But by holding HRC's feet to the fire by working with her. Kinduva hold your friends close and your enemies closer thing.

Surely he deserves a nice piece of pie in exchange for throwing his support and delegates behind her. But what kind of pie? He's more of a domestic guy, so not SecState, I'm guessing. HUD? Labor? Pinkie swear not to renege?