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Science and the Bible: Noah's Ark

Noah's ark was designed to carry Noah and his family along with animals through the global deluge of 2370 - 2369 BCE. The ark (Hebrew tevah, Greek kibotos) was rectangular, a chest, actually, having square corners and a flat bottom. It was designed simply to float, without the need for steering, and to be watertight. This shape not only would make capsizing very improbable but also allowed for one third more space. The roof had a 4% pitch, with a 1 cubit elevation - 25 cubits from wall to ridge, which allowed water to flow off.

It was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. The ancient cubit was 17.5 inches (44.5 cm), although some think it was nearer to 56 or 61 cm, which means the ark measured 437' 6" x 72' 11" x 43' 9" (133.5 m by 22.3 m by 13.4 m), which is less than half the length of the Queen Elizabeth II. The proportion of length to width being 6 to 1 is also used by modern naval architects.

It had approximately 1,400,000 cubic feet (40,000 cubic meters) in gross volume, with a displacement comparable to the 883 ft (269 m) Titanic. It was strengthened internally by the addition of two floors. With three decks, it would have a total of approximately 96,000 square feet (8,900 square meters) of space.

For light and ventilation, there was an opening of a cubit in height near the roof which extended around the four sides, providing 1,500 square feet (140 square meters).

The wood used was from a resinous tree, probably cypress or similar. Cypress was favored by shipbuilders such as the Phoenicians and Alexander the Great, even to the present day. Noah was instructed not only to caulk the seams but to cover the ark inside and outside with tar.​

Bitumen and Pitch

Bitumen is a black or brownish asphalt. There are three Hebrew words which describe first its degree of hardness: zepheth is pitch, the liquid form, and chemar is bitumen, its solid state. Kopher, tar, describes its usage, an application overlaying woodwork. The ark in which Moses, as a baby, floated down the Nile was covered with both bitumen and pitch, rendering it watertight (Exodus 2:3), and the builders of Babylon used bitumen for not only its waterproofing but its adhesiveness as mortar in kiln-dried bricks. (Genesis 11:3)​

Cargo

Noah's ark had, without a doubt, a most interesting passenger list: Noah, his wife, three sons, and their wives, as well as two of every sort of animal, seven of each of the animals considered to be clean. Also, food for over a year. Many people grossly overestimate the number of animals involved here because they don't understand that the Bible means every "kind," a term which differs a great deal from the biological term. There wasn't a need, for example, for Noah to include every breed of dog or cat, just two or seven (if clean) of each.

It has been estimated that 43 kinds of mammals, 74 kinds of birds, and 10 kinds of reptiles could have produced the variety of species known today. A more liberal estimate is 72 kinds of quadrupeds and less than 200 kinds of bird kinds would have sufficed. There are about 1,300,000 species of animals, but 60% of those are insects. Of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, and 10,000 are birds - many of which could have survived outside the ark.

Of the 5,000 mammals, which would include whales and porpoises who would have stayed outside the ark, 290 are larger than a sheep, and 1,360 are smaller than rats.

Plenty of room for Noah's family as well as for all the animals and their food.​
 
It has been estimated that 43 kinds of mammals, 74 kinds of birds, and 10 kinds of reptiles could have produced the variety of species known today. A more liberal estimate is 72 kinds of quadrupeds and less than 200 kinds of bird kinds would have sufficed. There are about 1,300,000 species of animals, but 60% of those are insects. Of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, and 10,000 are birds - many of which could have survived outside the ark.
The education system has clearly failed you. You should ask for your money back.
 
Just briefly (in my break time)

Well before I poo poo anything pood. I would be open to the plausibility.. regarding the world flood for example, just by the simple reason, reasoning from observation: 70% -73% of the earth is covered in ocean, sea life (whale bones and sea fossils on mountain) etc.etc. I know of course there are "best" explanation (the biblical explanation is excluded ).

gtg
The education system has clearly failed you as well. You should write to your Congressman and tell him that the US Dept. of Education is deeply, deeply broken, and should be disbanded immediately. Oh wait, you likely voted for Mr. Trump and he is working to do that right now. Never mind, please carry on.

Serious question - how far did you go in school? Did you not learn basic facts about the Earth in school at all? Like geography and science and the planets and mountains and the oceans? I am trying to understand how an adult living in the US who presumably went to High School never learned these things. I grew up on a farm in northern Michigan, home-schooled by my father till the 9th Grade when I was sent to high school, with very limited access to the outside world and even books for that matter. Yet I knew this stuff when I graduated in 1967. How is it possible that someone who is presumably much younger than I am, with access to free education, public libraries and the internet, never learned this very basic and important stuff? My flabber has been repeatedly gasted by the things you have said in this thread.
 
Just briefly (in my break time)

Well before I poo poo anything pood. I would be open to the plausibility.. regarding the world flood for example, just by the simple reason, reasoning from observation: 70% -73% of the earth is covered in ocean, sea life (whale bones and sea fossils on mountain) etc.etc. I know of course there are "best" explanation (the biblical explanation is excluded ).

gtg
The education system has clearly failed you as well. You should write to your Congressman and tell him that the US Dept. of Education is deeply, deeply broken, and should be disbanded immediately. Oh wait, you likely voted for Mr. Trump and he is working to do that right now. Never mind, please carry on.

Serious question - how far did you go in school? Did you not learn basic facts about the Earth in school at all? Like geography and science and the planets and mountains and the oceans? I am trying to understand how an adult living in the US who presumably went to High School never learned these things. I grew up on a farm in northern Michigan, home-schooled by my father till the 9th Grade when I was sent to high school, with very limited access to the outside world and even books for that matter. Yet I knew this stuff when I graduated in 1967. How is it possible that someone who is presumably much younger than I am, with access to free education, public libraries and the internet, never learned this very basic and important stuff? My flabber has been repeatedly gasted by the things you have said in this thread.

It’s because people like him don’t want to know. They want to live in a comfortable, cosseted fantasy world in which every answer is simple and everything is explained by Goddy. I don’t care about such people and their ridiculous beliefs insofar as they are kept to themselves and they don’t try to foist them on others. But the astounding ignorance of vast tracts of the American public unfortunately is having a devastating effect on public policy, including science. Trump is dismantling education in this country. He knows that ignorant people are easy to fool.
 
What I wonder is who had the job of shoveling manure.

It must have 'stunk to high heaven' inside the Ark.

Ya gotta,love the biblical federalists.

It's all down to the design of the vessel, and the methodical system that's in place to maintain the Ark.

Who's design and plan was it again?

Clue: the same one that created animals (and the earth) who would know what was required for the Ark.

It sure weren't Noah 😏...

...otherwise he would build an Ark with the very flaws you atheist are highlighting - designed by man.

Yes folks, scripture is sound.
Any problem that can be solved with the simple explanation that magic was involved can be dismissed out of hand. Just my opinion. You clearly disagree.

Shocker: I actually agree with your opinion, although....
...not the part you clearly weren't aware of in context to the bible.God is against "magic", "sorcery "and "fortune telling" i.e. counterfeit miracles!

As a modern Christian I'll use the language of today. God is the ultimate scientist, and magic is still a no no.
 
Belief in Noah's Ark requires the acceptance of Bad Science, Bad Engineering, Magic, or some combination.

When you believe that someone can do anything, then everything is possible, even the impossible.

When we assert that Jehovah could design an unsinkable ark, or maintain one, we miss the primary point. What was the purpose of the flood? According to Genesis 6, it was to kill off all the wicked people.

Question for the room: Did it work?

And if your purpose is to eliminate wicked people, is a worldwide flood really the best way to go about it? Give instructions to a senior citizen to build the world's largest boat, gather animals and feed from all around the world (what boat did Noah use to gather koala bears and sloths?), then keep the poor Ark afloat for a year?

Wouldn't it have been simpler and easier for Jehovah to simply give all the wicked people a heart attack? And it would have the added bonus of being more difficult for skeptics to dismiss. Mass heart attacks at least don't violate the laws of physics, geology, biology, and common sense.
 
Belief in Noah's Ark requires the acceptance of Bad Science, Bad Engineering, Magic, or some combination.

When you believe that someone can do anything, then everything is possible, even the impossible.

When we assert that Jehovah could design an unsinkable ark, or maintain one, we miss the primary point. What was the purpose of the flood? According to Genesis 6, it was to kill off all the wicked people.

Question for the room: Did it work?
Those wicked were judged there and then.

The human race to continue through Noah was still very important, despite there would be more wicked in the future.

And if your purpose is to eliminate wicked people, is a worldwide flood really the best way to go about it? Give instructions to a senior citizen to build the world's largest boat, gather animals and feed from all around the world (what boat did Noah use to gather koala bears and sloths?), then keep the poor Ark afloat for a year?

Wouldn't it have been simpler and easier for Jehovah to simply give all the wicked people a heart attack? And it would have the added bonus of being more difficult for skeptics to dismiss. Mass heart attacks at least don't violate the laws of physics, geology, biology, and common sense.

Sinners can turn around ceasing to be evil, and to counter-balance the evil potentials, and delay judgement till the final day of judgement...through the continuation of the human race, and for the human race...
... came Jesus!
 
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The whole thing is very silly. That we are still talking about Noah's ark in 2025 is very silly indeed. It is a story. A story. This is a silly thread.
Yes I'm deliberately quoting myself.
 
And if your purpose is to eliminate wicked people,
Note how crazy this makes the Bible and belief in it.

Mass murder, justified? How brainwashed do you have to be, to accept the ultimate evil as the work of a "love God" (gag)?
Does that mean there are populations today that deserve to be wiped out, down to the last infant, invalid, toddler, teen, adult? Let's name them, Christians.
What's the point of slaughtering the animal kingdom (and, as noted elsewhere, most of the plant life, which, if I'm not mistaken, Noah was not commissioned to save in a special greenhouse wing of the ark.)
Didn't anyone beside Noah have a boat or a raft and a fishing pole? Huck and Tom could've survived the flood.
If God didn't think "his ways" were being followed, was he powerless to improve humanity?
"...the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him to His heart...'I am sorry that I have made them.'" (Gen. 6) This makes no sense if God exists outside time and therefore knows in advance everything that will happen. Apparently, he's just seeing what we're seeing and blundering through his daily holy hobbies.
To end my little rant, just imagine how you distress a child's brain if you teach them this ludicrous murder story as if it's a tale from which we can take a life lesson.
 
What I wonder is who had the job of shoveling manure.

It must have 'stunk to high heaven' inside the Ark.

Ya gotta,love the biblical federalists.

It's all down to the design of the vessel, and the methodical system that's in place to maintain the Ark.

Who's design and plan was it again?

Clue: the same one that created animals (and the earth) who would know what was required for the Ark.

It sure weren't Noah 😏...

...otherwise he would build an Ark with the very flaws you atheist are highlighting - designed by man.

Yes folks, scripture is sound.


Even if that was true, that such a vessel could be built and maintained, a worldwide inundation as described in the bible never happened, not in human history or any time prior.
 
What I wonder is who had the job of shoveling manure.

It must have 'stunk to high heaven' inside the Ark.

Ya gotta,love the biblical federalists.

It's all down to the design of the vessel, and the methodical system that's in place to maintain the Ark.

Who's design and plan was it again?

Clue: the same one that created animals (and the earth) who would know what was required for the Ark.

It sure weren't Noah 😏...

...otherwise he would build an Ark with the very flaws you atheist are highlighting - designed by man.

Yes folks, scripture is sound.
Any problem that can be solved with the simple explanation that magic was involved can be dismissed out of hand. Just my opinion. You clearly disagree.

Shocker: I actually agree with your opinion, although....
...not the part you clearly weren't aware of in context to the bible.God is against "magic", "sorcery "and "fortune telling" i.e. counterfeit miracles!

As a modern Christian I'll use the language of today. God is the ultimate scientist, and magic is still a no no.
You misunderstood what I was saying. Let let rephrase:

Any problem that can be solved with the simple explanation that God-did-it, without any evidence or explanation of how God-did-it can be dismissed out of hand.

Is it clear now?

Question 1: how does one distinguish magic (sleigh of hand designed to fool unsophisticated humans which is what you are talking about) from seemingly impossible stuff that God does? How does one tell the difference?

Question 2: How did God do it? In this case, how did God design and build this ark that no human could have built to sustain the calamitous global flood event? And how could you know what God did?

Comment: I don't think you will even try to engage on this point. Which brings us back to the original point:

Any problem that can be solved with the simple explanation that God-did-it, without any evidence or explanation of how God-did-it can be dismissed out of hand. Just my opinion.

In other words, your assertion is empty and worth nothing. It can be dismissed without any further consideration.
 
People may not realize that Gandalf and Sauron were from the same order, the Maiar.
 
Hey WAB, silly can be fun 😊

(I need to be on the PC for longer posts, all this scrolling up down, back and forth)
 
(Noah's wife isn't named in the Bible, and really, who gives a shit. But in the 11th century, a tradition started that she was named Naamah.)

Noah: What's for lunch? We're starved.
Naamah: Three guesses.
Noah: Not more of that damn millet.
Naamah: You don't like my millet?
Noah: Not 40 days in a row.
Naamah: Well, then...behold! (She produces a strange, bony, platter heaped with some kind of roast)
Noah: It smells good, but what the hell is it?
Naamah: It's lunch.
Noah: Where-did-you-get-it.
Naamah: You said you were sick of millet. This is triceratops. Try it. It's a little gamy, but it's good. And it had this big dumb curvy thing on its head, and, look, I have a new serving platter.
Noah: We only had two of those, but luckily, the female was expecting. Tell me this is the male.
Naamah: This is the female. The male was a touchy son of a bitch.
Noah: We can't breed any more of these!! How am I going to explain this to God?
Naamah: Tell him we were hungry and you didn't like my millet!! I don't care what you tell him! This is what I cooked, and this is what we're eating!

This is what scientists call the extinction of ceratops horridus.
I made several posts which were mini plays based on biblical themes. We should do more of these and maybe have a place to store them. Yours are hilarious. Mine were pretty funny. I wonder if you saw them.
 
I remember at age 8 swallowing the bullshit about whale bones in the mountains being there because of a global flood. At age 9, against my parents wishes, I started bringing home introductory books on biology, geology, cosmology etc, from the school library and learned a lot. Sadly, it partly led to me getting enrolled in a fundamentalist Baptist school the next year.
 
Assertions without Evidence can be Dismissed without Argument.

Fortunately for you. All you have to do is dismiss the evidence first. I wish, though, that it were more effective because then I wouldn't be having this argument.
 
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The ark story is clearly a work of fiction. The writers wrote it as fiction — just like writers today write fiction. And, like now, the writers of the story wrote it for a reason. No doubt there was some calamitous local flood. No doubt there were a lot of shitty, evil people then, like now. There was belief in God or gods. They probably deduced that the calamitous local flood was god’s punishment for wickedness, and their little locality became the whole world, because every local tribe back then thought their little piece of real estate was the whole world, or at least the only important part of it. People in nations/states think this way today. So they invented a magnificent fairy tale of an ark, an old man, a bunch of animals, and a vengeful god. Did Steven King ever write anything more horrifying? Just think, the central character of the Old Testament, Yay! Hovah, is the greatest villain of all time! He wiped out almost everyone! Batman’s Joker never came close. As I kid I loved this story and lots of other bible stories, but even then I didn’t believe any of it was literally true.
 
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