SCOTUS gay rights case

[TomC]

I did not put anything on the post, but for the life of me I could not figure out why somebody wanted a wedding topper made under duress. What a sad thing to want and to be willing to sue for.

Yep.

Reminds me of the he-bitch in Colorado who drove past a dozen bakeries to get to the real target. A small baker who could be sued, and put Scardina on the map.
Tom

 

[Patooka]

Jesus fucking Christ it's not that difficult people.

Acceptable discrimination:
"Jim, I'm giving the promotion to Claire because you always turn up late, there's a 50/50 you still reek of last night's bourbon and I constantly have to assign someone to check your work. Also, HR wants to have a chat with you."

Unacceptable discrimination
"Jim, I'm giving the promotion to Claire because you're gay."

And just to belabour the point, no one is born a fucking Nazi.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So you don't want to answer my question.

I answered your poorly thought out question that was merely tangential to the conversation. I explicitly explain why it isn't even relevant to the wedding cake. I'm sorry if you didn't like the answer. But don't say I'm not answering your questions that are desperately grasping at hypotheticals to push for the reestablishment of discriminatory practices that will undoubtedly impact minorities in a country you don't even live in.

 

[Metaphor]

So you don't want to answer my question.

I answered your poorly thought out question that was merely tangential to the conversation. I explicitly explain why it isn't even relevant to the wedding cake. I'm sorry if you didn't like the answer. But don't say I'm not answering your questions that are desperately grasping at hypotheticals to push for the reestablishment of discriminatory practices that will undoubtedly impact minorities in a country you don't even live in.

I had a specific question:

Do you think a commercial artist, who advertises her drawing and painting skills, should be compelled to take any commission whatsoever?

Either your answer is 'yes' or 'no'.

 

[Gospel]

I did not put anything on the post, but for the life of me I could not figure out why somebody wanted a wedding topper made under duress. What a sad thing to want and to be willing to sue for.

Yep.

Reminds me of the he-bitch in Colorado who drove past a dozen bakeries to get to the real target. A small baker who could be sued, and put Scardina on the map.
Tom

Yeah, I know what yawl mean. Back in my young days when I was minding my own business breaking the law to smoke pot, it sucked that an officer drove past thousands of law abiding citizens to apprehend me. It's not about me breaking the law, it's the fact he knowingly drove past thousands of law abiding citizens to charge me with possession.

Maybe if I didn't have pot it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So you don't want to answer my question.

I answered your poorly thought out question that was merely tangential to the conversation. I explicitly explain why it isn't even relevant to the wedding cake. I'm sorry if you didn't like the answer. But don't say I'm not answering your questions that are desperately grasping at hypotheticals to push for the reestablishment of discriminatory practices that will undoubtedly impact minorities in a country you don't even live in.

I had a specific question:

Do you think a commercial artist, who advertises her drawing and painting skills, should be compelled to take any commission whatsoever?

Either your answer is 'yes' or 'no'.

You think that is a yes or no. OI! Also, I answered your question.

WEDDING CAKE! That'd be paint by number. We aren't talking about compelling someone to create a depiction of a gay orgy on a flat sheet cake.

For the reading challenged that means if a person is putting together a painting that preset-ish (ie paint by number), no, they can't refuse. If they are being completely told what is to be painted, then there could be reason to say they don't need to do it, if it passes some level of threshold. Kind of like how a photographer needs to take pictures of a wedding, but not of an orgy.

 

[Metaphor]

So you don't want to answer my question.

I answered your poorly thought out question that was merely tangential to the conversation. I explicitly explain why it isn't even relevant to the wedding cake. I'm sorry if you didn't like the answer. But don't say I'm not answering your questions that are desperately grasping at hypotheticals to push for the reestablishment of discriminatory practices that will undoubtedly impact minorities in a country you don't even live in.

I had a specific question:

Do you think a commercial artist, who advertises her drawing and painting skills, should be compelled to take any commission whatsoever?

Either your answer is 'yes' or 'no'.

You think that is a yes or no. OI! Also, I answered your question.

WEDDING CAKE! That'd be paint by number. We aren't talking about compelling someone to create a depiction of a gay orgy on a flat sheet cake.

You responded to the question. You didn't answer it.

For the reading challenged that means if a person is putting together a painting that preset-ish (ie paint by number), no, they can't refuse. If they are being completely told what is to be painted, then there could be reason to say they don't need to do it, if it passes some level of threshold.

Oh yes. Where is that threshold? In a wedding cake, say?

Kind of like how a photographer needs to take pictures of a wedding, but not of an orgy.

Can a photographer choose to photograph some orgies and not others?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You beat me to it Thomas! Of course it's not about religion for the Restaurant. It's about not exposing their staff to hate.

So we’re agreed that the state can’t compel a business to promote a message it disagrees with. Glad that’s settled.

The issue here is the word "promote"... and "message". You, and others, are equating their business as promotion. Like gas stations promote foreign automobile car manufacturers because they allow me to buy gas there.

A wedding cake baker were no more promoting weddings between heterosexual couples than they are between gay couples. Before gay marriage was legalized, were wedding cake bakers promoting a policy of being anti-gay marriage because they weren't baking cakes for state recognized weddings between gay couples? No.

Oleg appears to be making the argument for "separate but equal."

 

[Oleg]

You beat me to it Thomas! Of course it's not about religion for the Restaurant. It's about not exposing their staff to hate.

So we’re agreed that the state can’t compel a business to promote a message it disagrees with. Glad that’s settled.

The issue here is the word "promote"... and "message". You, and others, are equating their business as promotion. Like gas stations promote foreign automobile car manufacturers because they allow me to buy gas there.

A wedding cake baker were no more promoting weddings between heterosexual couples than they are between gay couples. Before gay marriage was legalized, were wedding cake bakers promoting a policy of being anti-gay marriage because they weren't baking cakes for state recognized weddings between gay couples? No.

Oleg appears to be making the argument for "separate but equal."

Can the state compel a Jewish baker to make a Nazi cake?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Can the state compel a Jewish baker to make a Nazi cake?

If a "nazi" sued a jewish baker for not making a cake for the nazi, (why am I laughing?) and the case made it all the way to a courtroom, somehow, the judge would throw out the case. Do you know why?

 

[Derec]

I wonder how this case compares with the restaurant who cancelled a Christian group's reservation 90 minutes before they were scheduled to arrive?

Are restaurants not supposed to be public accomodations?

 

[TomC]

Can the state compel a Jewish baker to make a Nazi cake?

If a "nazi" sued a jewish baker for not making a cake for the nazi, (why am I laughing?) and the case made it all the way to a courtroom, somehow, the judge would throw out the case. Do you know why?

Yes.
Because the rules are different when you're part of the dominant ideological group.
It doesn't even occur to question it.
Tom

 

[Oleg]

Can the state compel a Jewish baker to make a Nazi cake?

If a "nazi" sued a jewish baker for not making a cake for the nazi, (why am I laughing?) and the case made it all the way to a courtroom, somehow, the judge would throw out the case. Do you know why?

Because the 1st Amendment protects the Jewish baker from compelled speech against his beliefs? That offends him? Like, you can't force your local grocery store to write obsenities on a cake? Or like a newspaper can refuse to run ads with messages the editoral board opposses? https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/03/...manding-changes-we-cant-accept-paragraph-two/ To recognize that the Jewish baker, the local grocery, and the newspaper can refuse to promote messages they oppose or find offense, but that this women cannot exercise the same right of refusal is simple viewpoint discrimination.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Can the state compel a Jewish baker to make a Nazi cake?

If a "nazi" sued a jewish baker for not making a cake for the nazi, (why am I laughing?) and the case made it all the way to a courtroom, somehow, the judge would throw out the case. Do you know why?

Because the 1st Amendment protects the Jewish baker from compelled speech against his beliefs? That offends him? Like, you can't force your local grocery store to write obsenities on a cake? Or like a newspaper can refuse to run ads with messages the editoral board opposses? https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/03/...manding-changes-we-cant-accept-paragraph-two/ To recognize that the Jewish baker, the local grocery, and the newspaper can refuse to promote messages they oppose or find offense, but that this women cannot exercise the same right of refusal is simple viewpoint discrimination.

No. But keep asking. I think you will eventually figure it out.

 

[Oleg]

Can the state compel a Jewish baker to make a Nazi cake?

If a "nazi" sued a jewish baker for not making a cake for the nazi, (why am I laughing?) and the case made it all the way to a courtroom, somehow, the judge would throw out the case. Do you know why?

Because the 1st Amendment protects the Jewish baker from compelled speech against his beliefs? That offends him? Like, you can't force your local grocery store to write obsenities on a cake? Or like a newspaper can refuse to run ads with messages the editoral board opposses? https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/03/...manding-changes-we-cant-accept-paragraph-two/ To recognize that the Jewish baker, the local grocery, and the newspaper can refuse to promote messages they oppose or find offense, but that this women cannot exercise the same right of refusal is simple viewpoint discrimination.

No. But keep asking. I think you will eventually figure it out.

No, the 1st Amendment would be the reason the Jewish baker could not be compelled.

 

[laughing dog]

You beat me to it Thomas! Of course it's not about religion for the Restaurant. It's about not exposing their staff to hate.

So we’re agreed that the state can’t compel a business to promote a message it disagrees with. Glad that’s settled.

The issue here is the word "promote"... and "message". You, and others, are equating their business as promotion. Like gas stations promote foreign automobile car manufacturers because they allow me to buy gas there.

A wedding cake baker were no more promoting weddings between heterosexual couples than they are between gay couples. Before gay marriage was legalized, were wedding cake bakers promoting a policy of being anti-gay marriage because they weren't baking cakes for state recognized weddings between gay couples? No.

Oleg appears to be making the argument for "separate but equal."

Can the state compel a Jewish baker to make a Nazi cake?

No, the state cannot any baked to make a Nazi cake. As a matter of fact, there was a situation in 2008 where a PA store refused to write "Adolf Hitler" on a cake for a 3 year old named Adolf Hitler.

Once again, people are not born Nazis.

 

[Elixir]

Can I make a Republican baker write “Fuck Donald Trump”?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Once again, people are not born Nazis.

That's how I see it and is the answer to Oleg's question. Maybe there is a lawyer that would file suit in such a case just for reasons of notoriety and perhaps personal gain, but it would never get past a judge.

 

[Playball40]

If I can discriminate against someone because they are gay and because I claim it is a religious issue, then why can't I discriminate against someone who is christian, saying it is a religious issue?

Why does it have to be a religion that is the "reason" to say no to serving any particular customer?

Among some hispanics they believe that persons with red hair are witches and we know what the bible says about witches.

---

Ruh roh. And I thought being called 'carrot top' as a child (which makes no sense as the top of a carrot is NOT orange/red), was bad enough.

 

[Elixir]

Ruh roh. And I thought being called 'carrot top' as a child (which makes no sense as the top of a carrot is NOT orange/red), was bad enough.

Try saying that next time you’re kidnapped by Hispanics who want to burn you at the stake! Good luck.