Serena Williams controversy

[barbos]

He never was as bad as Serena here. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

I'm not really sure it is a difference, at all.

How is that not a difference when it clearly is? Try picturing a man in place of Serena, and tell me that would not be weird show.
She was crying and going on and on about apologizing and calling him a thief. If men did exactly that he would have been escorted to the hospital immediately. Instead what we see in men are short outbursts and then going back to the game or it gets stopped and guy records a loss as in the case with Nalbandian.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He never was as bad as Serena here. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

I'm not really sure it is a difference, at all.

barbos seems to have no idea what he is talking about. McEnroe was disqualified from a match for his antics.

I don't watch tennis enough to know about ceding an entire game in tennis. I didn't even know that was an option. There is no way to know if sexism was behind the umpire's decision, whether intentional or unintentional, or whether it was poor control by the umpire.

I'd say that Williams' temper on the court gets a bit more scrutiny because she is a woman, but also probably because she is so darn central in the sport, being in championships all of the time (twice after coming back from a complicated child birth/recovery).

 

[ruby sparks]

barbos seems to have no idea what he is talking about. McEnroe was disqualified from a match for his antics.

Apparently he didn't cry, and so was not hospitalised. Or something. I'm confused.

 

[ruby sparks]

I just watched a couple videos of McEnroe's outbursts.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Nyc9jzSDg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[TSwizzle]

I've never followed tennis. But after watching Naomi win her semi final (can't remember her opponent, that's how much I was paying attention) and how giddy she was at the prospect of playing her childhood hero Serena and how she didn't care if she lost, she was just so honored to get the opportunity to play Serena in a grand slam final i decided to watch the final. I thought Serena lost the plot too easily. She had started to get back into the game and was 3-1 up in the second set when she started to unravel. And when Serena received the game penalty which put Naomi 3-5 up, I think Naomi may have given Serena the next game. Naomi was the better player. It was a great match to watch. Was Serena punished unjustly ? Not really according to the rules. I don't know if the rules are applied differently to the men as I don't follow tennis.

 

[dismal]

I've never followed tennis. But after watching Naomi win her semi final (can't remember her opponent, that's how much I was paying attention) and how giddy she was at the prospect of playing her childhood hero Serena and how she didn't care if she lost, she was just so honored to get the opportunity to play Serena in a grand slam final i decided to watch the final. I thought Serena lost the plot too easily. She had started to get back into the game and was 3-1 up in the second set when she started to unravel. And when Serena received the game penalty which put Naomi 3-5 up, I think Naomi may have given Serena the next game. Naomi was the better player. It was a great match to watch. Was Serena punished unjustly ? Not really according to the rules. I don't know if the rules are applied differently to the men as I don't follow tennis.

"The rules are applied differently to the men" is a strange argument in itself. In sports players adjust to the subjective elements of officiating. If a basketball ref is calling fouls close, you adjust by not being so physical. If a baseball umpire has a wide strike zone, you adjust by swinging at more borderline pitches. If an NFL ref is calling holding close, we expect the players to adjust. We generally only really complain if he doesn't call it the same for both teams.

If tennis umpires don't let woman get away with unleashing verbal tirades calling them a thief and a liar, you don't unleash verbal tirades calling them a thief and a liar.

Assuming there is a difference in the officiating between a men's tennis match and a woman's tennis match, this was a woman's tennis match. There was no man involved. I assume Serena would have been aware of that.

Why would Serena expect it to be officiated like a men's tennis match?

 

[phands]

There was no man involved.

There was: the umpire.

 

[TSwizzle]

Why would Serena expect it to be officiated like a men's tennis match?

I think her perception and argument is that the men get more leeway on their behavior than women. The rules for tennis are not gender specific. I don't know if Serena is correct, I don't watch enough tennis. That is the only time I have seen a female player have such an outburst but as I say, I don't watch it very often.

 

[jladam]

Men would have stopped badgering poor umpire long before she did (she actually did not)

John McEnroe?

He never was as bad as Serena here. She was hysterical and frankly scary and unpredictable. With men I think it's pretty simple and predictable and more often than not they don't really mean it, it's part of the game.
That's a difference.

Seriously, are you kidding?

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xea1KKEgOco[/YOUTUBE]

And the thing about McEnroe is that most men loved him for his outbursts. It was always just "McEnroe being McEnroe."

 

[phands]

Why would Serena expect it to be officiated like a men's tennis match?

I think her perception and argument is that the men get more leeway on their behavior than women. The rules for tennis are not gender specific. I don't know if Serena is correct, I don't watch enough tennis. That is the only time I have seen a female player have such an outburst but as I say, I don't watch it very often.

That might be true. In the men's final yesterday, Djokovitch got away with several serve-clock violations. That was because the umpire in that match was applying some latitude because Del Potro's fans were so loud so often, they upset the match.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't understand the McEnroe comparison. McEnroe retired before Serena was even born, probably. He must be the worst offender and best known. A few players of that era were prone to outbursts, Connors and Nastase were known for it. What men in the here and now behave like that ? There's and Australian mens player that gets stroppy quite a bit but I think he gets kicked out and fined regularly, Krygos or something.

 

[jladam]

I don't understand the McEnroe comparison. McEnroe retired before Serena was even born, probably. He must be the worst offender and best known. A few players of that era were prone to outbursts, Connors and Nastase were known for it. What men in the here and now behave like that ? There's and Australian mens player that gets stroppy quite a bit but I think he gets kicked out and fined regularly, Krygos or something.

Read the YouTube comments to his outburst videos. Even the most recent ones still praise him because of his outbursts.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't understand the McEnroe comparison. McEnroe retired before Serena was even born, probably. He must be the worst offender and best known. A few players of that era were prone to outbursts, Connors and Nastase were known for it. What men in the here and now behave like that ? There's and Australian mens player that gets stroppy quite a bit but I think he gets kicked out and fined regularly, Krygos or something.

Read the YouTube comments to his outburst videos. Even the most recent ones still praise him because of his outbursts.

So ? It's certainly entertaining but does that happen these days ?

 

[dismal]

Why would Serena expect it to be officiated like a men's tennis match?

I think her perception and argument is that the men get more leeway on their behavior than women. The rules for tennis are not gender specific. I don't know if Serena is correct, I don't watch enough tennis. That is the only time I have seen a female player have such an outburst but as I say, I don't watch it very often.

Yeah, I understand she thinks that, but so what? She's playing other women. No one is getting an advantage over her.

 

[TSwizzle]

Why would Serena expect it to be officiated like a men's tennis match?

I think her perception and argument is that the men get more leeway on their behavior than women. The rules for tennis are not gender specific. I don't know if Serena is correct, I don't watch enough tennis. That is the only time I have seen a female player have such an outburst but as I say, I don't watch it very often.

Yeah, I understand she thinks that, but so what? She's playing other women. No one is getting an advantage over her.

That's not her argument and I think you know that.

 

[phands]

Why would Serena expect it to be officiated like a men's tennis match?

I think her perception and argument is that the men get more leeway on their behavior than women. The rules for tennis are not gender specific. I don't know if Serena is correct, I don't watch enough tennis. That is the only time I have seen a female player have such an outburst but as I say, I don't watch it very often.

Yeah, I understand she thinks that, but so what? She's playing other women. No one is getting an advantage over her.

Are you purposely ignoring the fact that the umpire was male?

 

[ronburgundy]

But wait: she's black! I forgot. That truly ups the threat factor.

Oh, and she has a history of making violent threats against tennis officials, an act she clear still refuses to take responsibility for, as evidenced by the fact that on Saturday she referenced it as another instance where she was the victim of unfairness.

She the unquestionable GOAT of female tennis, but also a entitled threatening bully, a poor sport, and a lousy role model for young girls.

Oh, and the young woman whose greatest moment Serena destroyed is also black, and yet those criticizing Serena are applauding her for showing more grace and professionalism than Serena ever has or could. And her critics do not view Serena's sister in the same way at all. So, it has nothing to do with race.

 

[dismal]

Yeah, I understand she thinks that, but so what? She's playing other women. No one is getting an advantage over her.

Are you purposely ignoring the fact that the umpire was male?

Do the umpires play in women's tennis? That seems odd. I was under the impression her opponent was another woman.

 

[jladam]

I don't understand the McEnroe comparison. McEnroe retired before Serena was even born, probably. He must be the worst offender and best known. A few players of that era were prone to outbursts, Connors and Nastase were known for it. What men in the here and now behave like that ? There's and Australian mens player that gets stroppy quite a bit but I think he gets kicked out and fined regularly, Krygos or something.

Read the YouTube comments to his outburst videos. Even the most recent ones still praise him because of his outbursts.

So ? It's certainly entertaining but does that happen these days ?

You rarely see it today because John McEnroe is retired. Even when McEnroe played very few male tennis players acted like that. When one did it was very rare and they usually apologized afterward. McEnroe never apologized. And that's why even today a lot of men still admire him.

 

[laughing dog]

But wait: she's black! I forgot. That truly ups the threat factor.

Oh, and she has a history of making violent threats against tennis officials, an act she clear still refuses to take responsibility for, as evidenced by the fact that on Saturday she referenced it as another instance where she was the victim of unfairness.

She the unquestionable GOAT of female tennis, but also a entitled threatening bully, a poor sport, and a lousy role model for young girls.

Oh, and the young woman whose greatest moment Serena destroyed is also black, and yet those criticizing Serena are applauding her for showing more grace and professionalism than Serena ever has or could. And her critics do not view Serena's sister in the same way at all. So, it has nothing to do with race.

Snipping part of a response denudes it of its context. Toni's comment was in response to someone who called Serena Williams scary. It was not about the umpire.

It is fucking ridiculous to claim Ms. Williams was either scary or threatening. So why would anyone think Ms. Williams was scary? Perhaps her race did play into that poster's reaction.