Shooting in Munich, let me guess who is responsoible

[laughing dog]

You really are not fooling anyone but yourself.

No, you are the one fooling yourself. Go read up on conditional probability.

Using "conditional probability" to cover your fears and biases fools only yourself.

 

[laughing dog]

Him being Iranian and yelling "Allahu akbar" (according to a witness) are two clues.

Add in the facts
1)that the investigating authorities have found no indication of Islamic terrorist leanings or that this was religiously motivated, and
2) he is German born and raised,
3) there is filmed conversation with the attacker where there is no religious motivation evident,
and all the clues point that your conclusion is based on bigotry.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Him being Iranian and yelling "Allahu akbar" (according to a witness) are two clues.

I'm certain that if some cop shot a black man in the commission of a crime, and one witness swore they heard him shout 'Die, nigger,' when he did it, you'd cast all sorts of doubt on the integrity of that witness, or the possibility that their bigotry against cops led them to THINK that's what they heard in a stressful situation. And of course, you'd give more weight to the crime than the witness in evaluating it as a 'righteous shoot.'

But as long as the witness report matches your expectations, that's got more weight than anything else uncovered by the authorities.

 

[Trausti]

The problem with identifying "Islam" as the one and only problem is you fail to see the wider pattern of what is going on when you remove religion from the picture. The pattern of isolation, alienation, and depression that is causing men from all religions to undertake mass killings.

Gotta watch out for those alienated and depressed Amish, Mennonites, Scientologists, Mormons, Westboro Baptist Churchers, Presbyterians, Orthodox, and Anglicans. Mass killings every week!

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The problem with identifying "Islam" as the one and only problem is you fail to see the wider pattern of what is going on when you remove religion from the picture. The pattern of isolation, alienation, and depression that is causing men from all religions to undertake mass killings.

Gotta watch out for those alienated and depressed Amish, Mennonites, Scientologists, Mormons, Westboro Baptist Churchers, Presbyterians, Orthodox, and Anglicans. Mass killings every week!

So rather than look at the roots of the causes of mass killings we should always just blame Islam, rather than trying to understand them in a way that stops them?
That seems very small minded.

 

[TSwizzle]

Even when muslims explain plainly why they are doing what they do, there are still those who hold out hope it's something else other than teh islam.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Even when muslims explain plainly why they are doing what they do, there are still those who hold out hope it's something else other than teh islam.

They are fools.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Even when muslims explain plainly why they are doing what they do, there are still those who hold out hope it's something else other than teh islam.

The witnessing of unhinged criminals, though, seems to be about the last place to look for a motive.

Plenty of serial killers have blamed role playing games, evolution, Saturday morning cartoons, their parents... Anything that matches the agenda of the person doing the interview.
It's never THE KILLER who's the problem. But if he can find a friendly shoulder to cry on, he'll tell them what they want to hear.

If I'm unable to deal with my feelings for, say, wanting to have sex with my Aloe Vera plant, which drives me to acting out in a violent manner at the Dollar Store, the LAST thing I'm going to do when they point a camera at me is to admit my feelings. But I know if I start blaming Islam, a whole bunch of people will give me media time, and use my name, and tell me that I'm a victim, rather than a freak.

Even if they find 42 Aloe Vera plants in my apartment, and no Koran, all too many people are going to happily add my name to the list of fundamentalist Islamics.

 

[Trausti]

Gotta watch out for those alienated and depressed Amish, Mennonites, Scientologists, Mormons, Westboro Baptist Churchers, Presbyterians, Orthodox, and Anglicans. Mass killings every week!

So rather than look at the roots of the causes of mass killings we should always just blame Islam, rather than trying to understand them in a way that stops them?
That seems very small minded.

But you're not trying to understand them. When a terrorist says he commits an act of terror because of Islam, why don't you believe him? We seem to have no problem accepting when Tim McVeigh, Dlyann Roof, or Ted Kaczynski say what motivated them to do what they did. But when a Muslim terrorist cites the Koran, the western liberal brays that this life-long Muslim misunderstands his religion. But it is the western liberal who misunderstands it. It is this western liberal who is small minded.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with identifying "Islam" as the one and only problem is you fail to see the wider pattern of what is going on when you remove religion from the picture. The pattern of isolation, alienation, and depression that is causing men from all religions to undertake mass killings.

But only Islam has a bunch of manaics encouraging such people to engage in mass killings--thus we see far more of them from Islamists than from other religions.

 

[TSwizzle]

Even when muslims explain plainly why they are doing what they do, there are still those who hold out hope it's something else other than teh islam.

The witnessing of unhinged criminals, though, seems to be about the last place to look for a motive.

They are pious muslims on jihad.

 

[Trausti]

 

[repoman]

what would have been the reaction if two french hard nationalists had invaded a mosque and beheaded an Imam?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Well, I suppose that some Muslims would be saying that Christian radicals are killing Muslims again. So, are you saying that y'all are the counterparts to those some Muslims or are you just goalpost shifting your original Islamist terrorism "guess" by bringing up a completely different issue in which actual Islamists were involved?

 

[laughing dog]

But you're not trying to understand them. When a terrorist says he commits an act of terror because of Islam, why don't you believe him? We seem to have no problem accepting when Tim McVeigh, Dlyann Roof, or Ted Kaczynski say what motivated them to do what they did. But when a Muslim terrorist cites the Koran, the western liberal brays that this life-long Muslim misunderstands his religion. But it is the western liberal who misunderstands it. It is this western liberal who is small minded.

Let's apply that reasoning. When peaceful Muslim who lives in peace say that Islam is a religion of peace, why don't you believe him? But when a peaceful Muslim cites the Koran, the western bigot brays that this life-long Muslim misunderstands his religion. But it is the western bigot who misunderstands it. It is the western liberal who is small minded.

Do you still think it is valid?

 

[Derec]

what would have been the reaction if two french hard nationalists had invaded a mosque and beheaded an Imam?

The leftists would not have tried to find ways to defend them and they would have condemned the decision to leave them free on parole. Which is what the French authorities did here.

French priest’s killer was freed from jail despite aiming to join jihadis

Whoever authorized this should be brought up on manslaughter charges. People like this should be locked up and only released to be deported, not left to freely roam Europe and murder in the name of Allah.

 

[iolo]

The witnessing of unhinged criminals, though, seems to be about the last place to look for a motive.

They are pious muslims on jihad.

Very seldom. Mostly they are either nutters or criminals wanting to die to a nice dramatic fanfare. The question with all these weirdoes, Nazis and nutters, is how to cool things down and find something more interesting for people to do instead.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But you're not trying to understand them. When a terrorist says he commits an act of terror because of Islam, why don't you believe him? We seem to have no problem accepting when Tim McVeigh, Dlyann Roof, or Ted Kaczynski say what motivated them to do what they did. But when a Muslim terrorist cites the Koran, the western liberal brays that this life-long Muslim misunderstands his religion. But it is the western liberal who misunderstands it. It is this western liberal who is small minded.

Let's apply that reasoning. When peaceful Muslim who lives in peace say that Islam is a religion of peace, why don't you believe him? But when a peaceful Muslim cites the Koran, the western bigot brays that this life-long Muslim misunderstands his religion. But it is the western bigot who misunderstands it. It is the western liberal who is small minded.

Do you still think it is valid?

Well, neither of those are misunderstandings of Islam. They're simply different interpretations of Islam. When a terrorist cites Islam as the rationale for his actions, he's not making a mistake about what Islam teaches, he's just emphasizing certain teachings and downplaying others. When a peaceful accountant cites Islam as a rationale for living a decent and honest life, he's not making a mistake about what Islam teaches, he's just emphasizing certain teachings and downplaying others. When a small-minded Western liberal bigot cites either of those as an example of what Islam teaches its followers, he's right in both cases.

Islam isn't any more or less than what the followers of Islam say that it is.

 

[laughing dog]

Let's apply that reasoning. When peaceful Muslim who lives in peace say that Islam is a religion of peace, why don't you believe him? But when a peaceful Muslim cites the Koran, the western bigot brays that this life-long Muslim misunderstands his religion. But it is the western bigot who misunderstands it. It is the western liberal who is small minded.

Do you still think it is valid?

Well, neither of those are misunderstandings of Islam. They're simply different interpretations of Islam. When a terrorist cites Islam as the rationale for his actions, he's not making a mistake about what Islam teaches, he's just emphasizing certain teachings and downplaying others. When a peaceful accountant cites Islam as a rationale for living a decent and honest life, he's not making a mistake about what Islam teaches, he's just emphasizing certain teachings and downplaying others. When a small-minded Western liberal bigot cites either of those as an example of what Islam teaches its followers, he's right in both cases.

Islam isn't any more or less than what the followers of Islam say that it is.

Exactly. Which means that the claim that Islam is inherently evil or good is wrong. Which means the claim that Islam drives people to ___________ is not really valid.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, neither of those are misunderstandings of Islam. They're simply different interpretations of Islam. When a terrorist cites Islam as the rationale for his actions, he's not making a mistake about what Islam teaches, he's just emphasizing certain teachings and downplaying others. When a peaceful accountant cites Islam as a rationale for living a decent and honest life, he's not making a mistake about what Islam teaches, he's just emphasizing certain teachings and downplaying others. When a small-minded Western liberal bigot cites either of those as an example of what Islam teaches its followers, he's right in both cases.

Islam isn't any more or less than what the followers of Islam say that it is.

Exactly. Which means that the claim that Islam is inherently evil or good is wrong. Which means the claim that Islam drives people to ___________ is not really valid.

But that's like saying that you can't blame Christianity for witch trials, evolution denial or people giving to charity. While there are reasons for those unrelated to the religion, if the religion is the motivation for their doing it, then that's what drove those people to the actions.

If the terrorists' interpretation of Islam is what motivates them to act, then their religion is to responsible, the same way that a person acting decently and honestly because he feels that this is what Allah wants him to do has his religion responsible for his actions. While there's nothing "inherent" in any ideology, that doesn't mean that people's ideologies aren't what drives their actions.