Should bakers be forced to make gender transition celebration cakes?

[Emily Lake]

You are not in the business of reciting things for people.

As a student the government cannot force you to participate in any religious activity.

Refusing service to transsexuals is not in any way a religious practice.

It is ignorant prejudice and nothing more.

Something the government should protect people from in the market place.

I'd like to circle back several years with respect to your assertion.

Are you of the opinion that Yaniv was in the right, and that the state should have FORCED minority, predominantly muslim women, to handle their scrotum?

 

[Emily Lake]

Refusing service to transsexuals is not in any way a religious practice.

You don't think so.
Neither do I.

But Phillips does.

I think he's an asshole. I wouldn't buy anything from his store. I'd do without before I bought anything from that jerk.
Because pastries aren't very important, they're widely available, and I'd rather have a lumpy piece of crap celebration cake made by someone who loves me than a fancy anything made at gunpoint.
Tom

Pretty much this.

 

[untermensche]

Why are you refusing?

What's that got to do with it? You didn't include an "it depends on the reason" clause when you proclaimed that if the message is only wanted by transsexuals then refusing is like refusing service to all black people. Well, my example message is one only Jews would want. Deal with it.

(But, since you ask, I'd presumably be refusing because Judea and Samaria are not part of the Land of Israel but are illegally occupied Arab land, and/or because I'm an Arab-American. (About as Arab as Ms. Warren is Cherokee; but one-drop rules seem to be a thing again among Progressives, and it cuts both ways.))

There is nothing objectionable about a person celebrating a gender transition.

If somebody wants to do that they have not harmed anybody.

You are talking about being forced to support a murderous political movement that has harmed people nonstop for decades.

 

[Emily Lake]

Having cakes to celebrate singular events in your life is customary. It is a widespread practice. It could easily be seen as an essential part of the party.

"Hi, yes, I've just been promoted to grand dragon of my local KKK chapter, and I'm throwing a party. Can you bake me a chocolate cake with white frosting so i can celebrate my new level in the organization? It's singular event in my life, and the cake is an essential part of the party. Just so we're clear, the chocolate represents blacks, and the frosting represents the superiority of white people.

Oh, of course you'll bake it. You don't have a choice!!!!"

Progress!!!!!!

 

[untermensche]

You are not in the business of reciting things for people.

As a student the government cannot force you to participate in any religious activity.

Refusing service to transsexuals is not in any way a religious practice.

It is ignorant prejudice and nothing more.

Something the government should protect people from in the market place.

I'd like to circle back several years with respect to your assertion.

Are you of the opinion that Yaniv was in the right, and that the state should have FORCED minority, predominantly muslim women, to handle their scrotum?

Were these woman in the business of handling scrotums?

 

[Emily Lake]

You are not in the business of reciting things for people.

As a student the government cannot force you to participate in any religious activity.

Refusing service to transsexuals is not in any way a religious practice.

It is ignorant prejudice and nothing more.

Something the government should protect people from in the market place.

I'd like to circle back several years with respect to your assertion.

Are you of the opinion that Yaniv was in the right, and that the state should have FORCED minority, predominantly muslim women, to handle their scrotum?

Were these woman in the business of handling scrotums?

It doesn't matter. They were in the business of providing genital waxing services to women. And Yaniv is transgender.

 

[untermensche]

Having cakes to celebrate singular events in your life is customary. It is a widespread practice. It could easily be seen as an essential part of the party.

"Hi, yes, I've just been promoted to grand dragon of my local KKK chapter, and I'm throwing a party. Can you bake me a chocolate cake with white frosting so i can celebrate my new level in the organization? It's singular event in my life, and the cake is an essential part of the party. Just so we're clear, the chocolate represents blacks, and the frosting represents the superiority of white people.

Oh, of course you'll bake it. You don't have a choice!!!!"

Progress!!!!!!

There is nothing objectionable about a transsexual for merely living and celebrating their life, harming no other person.

The celebration of racial bigotry has harmed millions.

 

[untermensche]

Were these woman in the business of handling scrotums?

It doesn't matter. They were in the business of providing genital waxing services to women. And Yaniv is transgender.

It does matter.

There is no difference between making a cake that celebrates a birthday or celebrates a gender transition.

There is a huge difference between servicing male and female genitalia.

 

[TomC]

Were these woman in the business of handling scrotums?

It doesn't matter. They were in the business of providing genital waxing services to women. And Yaniv is transgender.

It does matter.

There is no difference between making a cake that celebrates a birthday or celebrates a gender transition.

There is a huge difference between servicing male and female genitalia.

Why?
Be specific.

I agree. I don't think people should be forced to do things like that they don't want to do. But you seem to have drawn a line you couldn't recognize, quite recently. Why is genital waxing a special category? Where people shouldn't have to do things they've made it clear they will not do willingly?
Tom

 

[untermensche]

It does matter.

There is no difference between making a cake that celebrates a birthday or celebrates a gender transition.

There is a huge difference between servicing male and female genitalia.

Why?
Be specific.

I agree. I don't think people should be forced to do things like that they don't want to do. But you seem to have drawn a line you couldn't recognize, quite recently. Why is genital waxing a special category? Where people shouldn't have to do things they've made it clear they will not do willingly?
Tom

What is the difference between handling male or female genitalia?

You are joking right? Two totally different manifestations of human genitalia.

How is making a transition cake different from making a wedding anniversary cake?

 

[TomC]

It does matter.

There is no difference between making a cake that celebrates a birthday or celebrates a gender transition.

There is a huge difference between servicing male and female genitalia.

Why?
Be specific.

I agree. I don't think people should be forced to do things like that they don't want to do. But you seem to have drawn a line you couldn't recognize, quite recently. Why is genital waxing a special category? Where people shouldn't have to do things they've made it clear they will not do willingly?
Tom

What is the difference between handling male or female genitalia?

You are joking right? Two totally different manifestations of human genitalia.

How is making a transition cake different from making a wedding anniversary cake?

Genitalia is genitalia.
Where's the rational distinction, if you don't see any reason to distinguish people by sex?

Frankly, the whole thing is kinda gross to me. I've never even considered a "professional wax job". At all, much less down there.

But if you wax genitals, what's the difference?

More to the point, why is sex discrimination OK in this particular instance but not others? Personally, I'm inclined to just leave people free to decide for themselves on such unimportant issues.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

What is the difference between handling male or female genitalia?

You are joking right? Two totally different manifestations of human genitalia.

How is making a transition cake different from making a wedding anniversary cake?

Genitalia is genitalia....

Wrong.

Flour and eggs are flour and eggs. A penis is not a vagina.

That's why they have it removed.

This of course is strange for an average heterosexual to understand.

But freedom is live and let live unless your living harms another.

I may not understand but it is not harming anyone.

They should not have to face legal bigotry in the market place.

 

[TomC]

What is the difference between handling male or female genitalia?

You are joking right? Two totally different manifestations of human genitalia.

How is making a transition cake different from making a wedding anniversary cake?

Genitalia is genitalia....

Wrong.

Flour and eggs are flour and eggs. A penis is not a vagina.

That's why they have it removed.

This of course is strange for an average heterosexual to understand.

But freedom is live and let live unless your living harms another.

I may not understand but it is not harming anyone.

They should not have to face legal bigotry in the market place.

I understand why you cropped the rest of my post.

You can't really respond without your hypocrisy showing.

Got it.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Recognizing the clear distinction between a penis and a vagina is not hypocrisy.

Servicing male genitalia is not servicing female genitalia.

You can't make them the same thing.

 

[Bomb#20]

Refusing to place a message on cakes that is only wanted by transsexuals is discriminating against them as a group.

Like refusing service to all black people.

So if I refused to write "Judea and Samaria are Eretz Israel", that would be discriminating against the Jews?

no

Exactly.

 

[Bomb#20]

What's that got to do with it? You didn't include an "it depends on the reason" clause when you proclaimed that if the message is only wanted by transsexuals then refusing is like refusing service to all black people. Well, my example message is one only Jews would want. Deal with it.

(But, since you ask, I'd presumably be refusing because Judea and Samaria are not part of the Land of Israel but are illegally occupied Arab land, and/or because I'm an Arab-American. (About as Arab as Ms. Warren is Cherokee; but one-drop rules seem to be a thing again among Progressives, and it cuts both ways.))

"I will not publish lies; that is Libel. I will not libel Arabs."

[removed]

As for your argument, other people disagreeing with you about who owns what does not qualify as libel, even when they're mistaken about who owns what. If you claim that three thousand years ago Yahweh gave the land to His Chosen People, then even if somebody believes you, that doesn't damage the reputation of any Arab.

 

[Bomb#20]

Why are you refusing?

What's that got to do with it? You didn't include an "it depends on the reason" clause when you proclaimed that if the message is only wanted by transsexuals then refusing is like refusing service to all black people. Well, my example message is one only Jews would want. Deal with it.

There is nothing objectionable about a person celebrating a gender transition.

If somebody wants to do that they have not harmed anybody.

You are talking about being forced to support a murderous political movement that has harmed people nonstop for decades.

So when you wrote "Refusing to place a message on cakes that is only wanted by transsexuals is discriminating against them as a group.", you appear to have meant "Refusing to place a message on cakes that is only wanted by transsexuals is discriminating against them as a group unless it's a message I disapprove of."

 

[Bomb#20]

There is nothing objectionable about a transsexual for merely living and celebrating their life, harming no other person.

The celebration of racial bigotry has harmed millions.

Racial bigotry has harmed millions; but how do you figure celebration of it hurt them? The victims would have been harmed just as much by the bigotry even if the bigots didn't celebrate.

 

[Bomb#20]

But freedom is live and let live unless your living harms another.

I may not understand but it is not harming anyone.

They should not have to face legal bigotry in the market place.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

- Noam Chomsky​

But then I guess we already knew you don't believe in freedom of expression at all. So let's see what other freedom you don't believe in at all...

But freedom is live and let live unless your living harms another.

I may not understand but it is not harming anyone.

They should not have to face legal bigotry in the market place.

Refusal of service based on delusion is harming somebody unjustly.

So, according to the principles you are propounding, people aren't entitled to the freedom to live and let live if their living harms another; and refusing to serve another based on delusion counts as harming him; and that sort of bigotry should not be legal in the market place.

Well, let's put all that together logically, and take note, as we're applying logic, that you didn't mention anything about "running a business" in any of those principles you endorsed. Well, the labor market is the market place, so the logic is inescapable. According to your stated principles, it ought to be illegal to quit your job because your boss transitioned.

So tell us, are you really in favor of reinstituting slavery?

 

[untermensche]

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

- Noam Chomsky​

The only freedom being trampled here is the freedom of a transsexual from ignorant discrimination in the market place.