Should white people perform the blues?

[skepticalbip]

Let’s first define racism with this formula: Racism = racial prejudice + systemic institutional power

Ya, that's just a poor definition. It's the racial prejudice that's racism all on it's own.

It's true that if you have the systemic institutional power backing up your racism, it makes it much, much worse simply because your power gives you the ability to cause more harm than someone without power would be able to cause. That doesn't, however, mean that racial prejudice on the part of the powerless is any less racist. You can't just define groups out of the definition.

If a black person hates white people as a group, that black person is a racist. The fact that he does not have sufficient power to manifest his racism into the systematic oppression of the whites means that his racism isn't going to cause as much harm as that of someone who does have the power to oppress the group he hates, but it doesn't make him less of a racist.

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Sure Athena, lets redefine racism so that black people can pretend they can't be racist.

There is no such thing as reverse racism. Racism is racism, no matter who is the perp and who is the target, and black people are just as capable as anybody else of being a bigot and discriminating against people and judging people and making assumptions about people based on race.

I am not redefining anything, This definition was spoken about by James Baldwin, by W.E.B. DuBois. The definition is older than me. You don't like it, fine. Don't like it, but dont act like someone changed the rules on you two seconds ago and now you have lost some precious right to call black folk racist.

 

[laughing dog]

Ya, that's just a poor definition. It's the racial prejudice that's racism all on it's own.

It's true that if you have the systemic institutional power backing up your racism, it makes it much, much worse simply because your power gives you the ability to cause more harm than someone without power would be able to cause. That doesn't, however, mean that racial prejudice on the part of the powerless is any less racist. You can't just define groups out of the definition.

If a black person hates white people as a group, that black person is a racist. The fact that he does not have sufficient power to manifest his racism into the systematic oppression of the whites means that his racism isn't going to cause as much harm as that of someone who does have the power to oppress the group he hates, but it doesn't make him less of a racist.

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

After reading posts like this, this white person is singing the blues.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Ya, that's just a poor definition. It's the racial prejudice that's racism all on it's own.

It's true that if you have the systemic institutional power backing up your racism, it makes it much, much worse simply because your power gives you the ability to cause more harm than someone without power would be able to cause. That doesn't, however, mean that racial prejudice on the part of the powerless is any less racist. You can't just define groups out of the definition.

If a black person hates white people as a group, that black person is a racist. The fact that he does not have sufficient power to manifest his racism into the systematic oppression of the whites means that his racism isn't going to cause as much harm as that of someone who does have the power to oppress the group he hates, but it doesn't make him less of a racist.

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

 

[skepticalbip]

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

None of that was in your definition of racism:

Originally Posted by AthenaAwakened
Let’s first define racism with this formula: Racism = racial prejudice + systemic institutional power

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Here is what I find strange.

For the entire history of white folk on the North American Continent, there have been white folk who fought the system, who sought alliances with Natives, with Africans, with Asians. White folk who bled and died so that people of color could have a better life and for some reason when discussing race, people for a colorblind society, a society of everyone being judged on the content of his or her character, seldom if ever bring this fact up.

 

[bigfield]

Here is what I find strange.

For the entire history of white folk on the North American Continent, there have been white folk who fought the system, who sought alliances with Natives, with Africans, with Asians. White folk who bled and died so that people of color could have a better life and for some reason when discussing race, people for a colorblind society, a society of everyone being judged on the content of his or her character, seldom if ever bring this fact up.

That's probably because it isn't relevant: Even if no white people had ever fought for the rights of people of colour, a society where individuals were not judged by their skin colour would still be desirable.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sure Athena, lets redefine racism so that black people can pretend they can't be racist.

There is no such thing as reverse racism. Racism is racism, no matter who is the perp and who is the target, and black people are just as capable as anybody else of being a bigot and discriminating against people and judging people and making assumptions about people based on race.

No. "Reverse racism" exists--it's a particularly odious kind of racism: Racism that pretends to be for good instead of evil. It's a subclass of racism, not a separate thing.

- - - Updated - - -

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

Once again, you're using statistics to try to show racism without any regard for whether those statistics reflect some underlying issue rather than racism.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Sure Athena, lets redefine racism so that black people can pretend they can't be racist.

There is no such thing as reverse racism. Racism is racism, no matter who is the perp and who is the target, and black people are just as capable as anybody else of being a bigot and discriminating against people and judging people and making assumptions about people based on race.

I am not redefining anything, This definition was spoken about by James Baldwin, by W.E.B. DuBois. The definition is older than me. You don't like it, fine. Don't like it, but dont act like someone changed the rules on you two seconds ago and now you have lost some precious right to call black folk racist.

When someone came up with the incorrect definition isn't relevant to how incorrect it is. It may qualify as an alternate definition of the word that a subset of people use, but that doesn't affect the common usage of the word which doesn't take the additional qualifiers into account. It's a poor definition that excludes a lot of racist behaviour and isn't very useful as a result.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You people are so hateful, and no I am not hateful in saying that because some of you have power over me! What do you mean that isn't what hateful means? Some guy a hundred years ago defined the word that way. Too bad if you don't like the definition, you hateful people. Now, give me special treatment, spend extra time finding me and inviting me to your schools, because you are hateful, and hateful people should do that for those you hate so much.

LOL

See, I can play that game too. This is how you come off. It doesn't accomplish a whole lot, does it?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No. "Reverse racism" exists--it's a particularly odious kind of racism: Racism that pretends to be for good instead of evil. It's a subclass of racism, not a separate thing.

- - - Updated - - -

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

Once again, you're using statistics to try to show racism without any regard for whether those statistics reflect some underlying issue rather than racism.

There is no such thing as reverse racism. Now If you want to say black folk are racist against white folk, that would still be racism. reverse racism would be something like, not being an asshole.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. "Reverse racism" exists--it's a particularly odious kind of racism: Racism that pretends to be for good instead of evil. It's a subclass of racism, not a separate thing.

- - - Updated - - -

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

Once again, you're using statistics to try to show racism without any regard for whether those statistics reflect some underlying issue rather than racism.

There is no such thing as reverse racism. Now If you want to say black folk are racist against white folk, that would still be racism. reverse racism would be something like, not being an asshole.

Reverse racism is racism engaged in for the purpose of rectifying racism.

 

[Perspicuo]

View attachment 1428

Reverse Racism
What they say:
“Blacks cry ‘racism’ for everything, even though they are more or just as racist as white people.”

Response:
Let’s first define racism with this formula: Racism = racial prejudice + systemic institutional power.
To say people of color can be racist, denies the power imbalance inherent in racism. Although some Black people dislike whites and act on that prejudice to insult or hurt them, that’s not the same as systematically oppressing them and negatively affecting every aspect of their lives.
People of color, as a social group, do not possess the societal, institutional power to oppress white people as a group. An individual Black person who is abusing a white person, while clearly wrong, is acting out a personal racial prejudice, not racism.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/10/7-things-color-blind-racist-friend-might-say-respond/2/

And don't forget who was first and who always wins in the end. If there is any sort of comparable racism in blacks, it's well sandwiched between the firstness, the lastness and the end result in measurable terms: poverty, exclusion, and diverse other direct and especially indirect punishment.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

None of that was in your definition of racism:

Originally Posted by AthenaAwakened
Let’s first define racism with this formula: Racism = racial prejudice + systemic institutional power

How do you think systemic institutional power realizes itself in society?

- - - Updated - - -

No. "Reverse racism" exists--it's a particularly odious kind of racism: Racism that pretends to be for good instead of evil. It's a subclass of racism, not a separate thing.

- - - Updated - - -

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

Once again, you're using statistics to try to show racism without any regard for whether those statistics reflect some underlying issue rather than racism.

What statistics Loren?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No. "Reverse racism" exists--it's a particularly odious kind of racism: Racism that pretends to be for good instead of evil. It's a subclass of racism, not a separate thing.

- - - Updated - - -

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

Once again, you're using statistics to try to show racism without any regard for whether those statistics reflect some underlying issue rather than racism.

There is no such thing as reverse racism. Now If you want to say black folk are racist against white folk, that would still be racism. reverse racism would be something like, not being an asshole.

Reverse racism is racism engaged in for the purpose of rectifying racism.

No that would still be racism. define racism anyway you like, then reverse that definition, as in find its opposite, and you don't wind up with racism. It is a term of art used as a trigger shut down discussion.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I am not redefining anything, This definition was spoken about by James Baldwin, by W.E.B. DuBois. The definition is older than me. You don't like it, fine. Don't like it, but dont act like someone changed the rules on you two seconds ago and now you have lost some precious right to call black folk racist.

When someone came up with the incorrect definition isn't relevant to how incorrect it is. It may qualify as an alternate definition of the word that a subset of people use, but that doesn't affect the common usage of the word which doesn't take the additional qualifiers into account. It's a poor definition that excludes a lot of racist behaviour and isn't very useful as a result.

Uh, no.

A bastardization of a word, just because it is popular, doesn't make the bastardization right.

But because the word is loved so much, let's say that there is racism and then there is institutional racism. Here's the the thing. Let's say we got rid of all the racists in a company, but none of the racist policies, practices, and procedures of the company, you would still have racism. Now do the opposite, keep the racists but remove the institutions of racism, racism goes away because then you are just left with bigots with no way effect their beliefs.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

When someone came up with the incorrect definition isn't relevant to how incorrect it is. It may qualify as an alternate definition of the word that a subset of people use, but that doesn't affect the common usage of the word which doesn't take the additional qualifiers into account. It's a poor definition that excludes a lot of racist behaviour and isn't very useful as a result.

Uh, no.

A bastardization of a word, just because it is popular, doesn't make the bastardization right.

But because the word is loved so much, let's say that there is racism and then there is institutional racism. Here's the the thing. Let's say we got rid of all the racists in a company, but none of the racist policies, practices, and procedures of the company, you would still have racism. Now do the opposite, keep the racists but remove the institutions of racism, racism goes away because then you are just left with bigots with no way effect their beliefs.

I fail to see how that's relevant to the point. If institutionalized racism is a subset of racism then all other types of racism, such as reverse racism for instance, are still just as racist. You can't redefine a word to only refer to a subset of what it means when it still equally applies to all the things outside of that subset.

All of those bigots without any way to effect their beliefs are still a bunch of racists. If I, for some reason, think that all Moroccans are a bunch of dirty criminals but go my whole life without ever meeting or taking an action that affects a Moroccan, I am still just as racist against Moroccans as someone who works at the Immigration Ministry and goes out of his way to make sure that as many of those bastards are kept out of the country as possible. The effect of my racism is nonexistant compared to his but we're both equally anti-Moroccan bigots.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The whole "black people can't be racist" narrative is in itself racist, and only serves to backfire against people hoping to fight white racists. I am surprised that so many fail to see this.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

None of that was in your definition of racism:

Originally Posted by AthenaAwakened
Let’s first define racism with this formula: Racism = racial prejudice + systemic institutional power

How do you think systemic institutional power realizes itself in society?

- - - Updated - - -

No. "Reverse racism" exists--it's a particularly odious kind of racism: Racism that pretends to be for good instead of evil. It's a subclass of racism, not a separate thing.

- - - Updated - - -

And given the definition of racism cited by AthenaAwakened any white living in a city with a black mayor, black police chief, and majority black city council can not be a racist. Atlanta, Georgia is such a city. It is good to know that there are no white racists in Atlanta. Only blacks can be racist in such a city.

No.

Are white people as a group in Atlanta having their life chances cut, wealth taken, neighborhoods ghetto-ized. Are white people in Atlanta arrested at a rate three times their population? are white third graders in atlanta 6 times more likely to get suspended from school than black children?

Is there anywhere in this country where these things are true or in danger of coming true?

Is there a centuries long history of blacks oppressing whites that has led to a playing field that for over three centuries has been tilted in black folks favor?

The effects of which are still present today?

Once again, you're using statistics to try to show racism without any regard for whether those statistics reflect some underlying issue rather than racism.

What statistics Loren?

Underlined.